At least we're not Chicago???

[wolverine]

Oh come on...

I think some Detroiters might suffer from a little "skyscraper envy"

[[Above) The planned super tall Chicago Spire Skyscraper

I think some forget; "it's not about the size of your buildings and urban spaces...
Attachment 6493
[[Above) The dormant Chicago Spire site ends up as a hole in the ground since late 2008.

...it's what you do with them!"

Attachment 6494




Attachment 6495
[[Three Photos Above) Campus Martius Park and the new buildings that surround her.

LOL, it's all about having neighborhoods with buildings too! Since my job offered me the choice between these two cities, I chose Chicago because the neighborhoods had actual built structures that were inhabited by people. You could walk 20 blocks in any direction and find continuous rows of occupied well kept structures, broken by maybe a factory or park, and 20 more blocks of occupied structures after that. Some are new some are old. They are constructed with primary attention given to the pedestrian. They are flanked by commercial streets with buildings as well. The buildings have stores and restaurants in them. The stores cater to the people who live in the neighborhoods, and the people in the neighborhoods enjoy shopping and eating at them. They come in great varieities, but the imporant part is that you can walk to them in minutes or even take a train to other neighborhoods with new and old buildings too where you will find different restaurants and stores.

Wow, a functioning thing called city. We need more of them, and we need to preserve more of them and come to their aid before they are gone.

A Chicago street with occupied buildings. In the future, all midwest cities should strive for this environment

[Scratch]

Meanwhile I just saw on CNN that Dallas metro area is the fastest growing metro area in the US and now totals 6.5 million. Wow.

Wow, indeed. I lived in Dallas for a year, and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to Texas. Midwestern summers have nothing on the humid temperatures they get down there, and while segregation is a blight, it's equally tense when crack houses and meth labs exist literally next door to iron-fenced mansions. Dallas is a bizarre city, which puts up at least as much appearances as Chicago. The thing is, with both, the "metro" area seems to spread indefinitely, due to flatlands and urban sprawl. I heard Cabrini Green has been razed and rebuilt into luxury condos now... wonder what happened to the low-income tenants?

[wolverine]

wonder what happened to the low-income tenants?

They moved them into these.

[DetroitPlanner]

Laughing at Chicago's misfortunes does nothing to improve Detroit. Whats the point?

[English]

Again, comparing Chicago and Detroit is like comparing apples and shoe leather. My folks always said that Chicago was a bigger and faster city than Detroit even in Detroit's heyday.

Chicago has been the premier city of the region for more than a century now... we were the "Paris of the Midwest" at one point. The lower density and open space has been our bane for a long time, but in this century, it may prove to be our salvation if we can ever get our act together.

We shouldn't want to be like Chicago. I love Chicago a great deal, and it is one of my favorite places to visit and hang out. But 21st century Detroit needs to become something different... something that isn't like any other city. We just need visionary leadership who isn't trying to make us like a third-rate suburb or a pale imitation of NYC or Chi-town.

[iheartthed]

Again, comparing Chicago and Detroit is like comparing apples and shoe leather. My folks always said that Chicago was a bigger and faster city than Detroit even in Detroit's heyday.

Chicago has been the premier city of the region for more than a century now... we were the "Paris of the Midwest" at one point. The lower density and open space has been our bane for a long time, but in this century, it may prove to be our salvation if we can ever get our act together.

We shouldn't want to be like Chicago. I love Chicago a great deal, and it is one of my favorite places to visit and hang out. But 21st century Detroit needs to become something different... something that isn't like any other city. We just need visionary leadership who isn't trying to make us like a third-rate suburb or a pale imitation of NYC or Chi-town.

Chicago may have always been "bigger and faster" than Detroit... But the two cities were and are more alike than not, IMO. I'd certainly draw the comparison between Detroit and Chicago faster than I would Chicago and New York.

Also, just because Detroit wasn't ever "bigger and faster" than Chicago doesn't negate that Detroit has significantly diverged from being a big and fast city. And the reason it has diverged [[IMO) is that it has lost many of the qualities that it did once have that places like Chicago still exhibit. New York has almost always been the biggest city on the eastern seaboard, but there still remain other big and fast cities in that region.

So in short, yeah there is much that Detroit can learn from Chicago so that Detroit can become Detroit again.

[LeannaM]

I notice the same thing in St. Louis. A lot of people seem to have resentment against Chicago, partially because of the sports rivalries, but also because people like to compare St. Louis and Chicago, but they can't really be compared because of the difference in size. It's like "Well, Chicago has [[some amenity) that St. Louis doesn't," or "Chicago doesn't have [[some problem) like St. Louis has." I'm sure whether the city is Detroit or St. Louis or some other around there, being compared to a city and metro the size of Chicago is annoying.

[Danny]

There had been some serious unscrupolous real estate block busting tactics in some Chicago neighborhoods in the past 60 years. Real estate brokers did the some neighborhood blockbusting and racial steering to lure blacks and Hispanics deeper to the South and West Sides of Chicago like hiring blacks to ride their bikes through the mostly white areas just to get whites to move the suburbs. Same tactic for Hispanic kids a trick taken by real estate brokers from Detroit.

Blacks in Chicago have settle to West side since the 1950s from the start of the Cabrini Green Housing Projects to following the ethnic Jews to the North Lawndale community. After all North Lawndale area used to be mostly ethnic Jewish community before the move and split to the western suburbs and others went to Skokie, Evanston and Niles, Some Jews remained the North and Far Northwest Side of Chicago.

Blacks have expanded further to South Side on Chicago by unscrupolous real estate brokers who were helping suburban developers expand their housing market in the Southwesten Suburbs. As usual, scare White Chicago South Side home owners by letting blacks ride their bikes into the neighborhoods and let them sell their homes.

There's more, some southern suburbs in the Chicagoland area became full blown black because of the same practice from Chicago South Side neigborhoods.

For Cicero, It become full blown Mexican/Hispanic through real estate blockbusting and racial steering. In those times some, older homes and Chicago and old suburban neighborhoods are too close and have less front yards, shorter backyards and lack of driveways to park their cars. You have to go into the allies and park your car into the garage in which its a hassle. However today, our young generation are tired of living the suburban life to rising fuel costs and driving congestive time. So lots them are moving back to the cities. Chicago, St. Louis, Washington D.C. New York City, Altanta and Oakland, CA. are those target cities for young white young adult growth. It's going to take slum clearance and real estate blockbusting and downsizing of slum black ghettos and hispanic barrios to make it happen.


Real estate schemes will play a role in Detroit, Chicago and every American city, town and village to ensure free enterprise market whether its ethic or unethnical pratices.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Because buying decent home and a decent land in America takes RACE, MONEY AND POWER!

In memoriam: Neda Agha Soltan

[xphillipjrx]

like hiring blacks to ride their bikes through the mostly white areas just to get whites to move the suburbs.

I am from Southfield and I have been in Chicago since 1998. I heard stories in both cities about racial boundaries [[don't cross so-and-so street or don't let the sun set on you in such-and-such neighborhood). The stuff I heard about in Chicago is no joke compared to what happened in Detroit.

There are stories about harassment in Bridgeport even now. Back in the day if they saw some black kids riding bikes in their hood they'd grab some baseball bats and go to town on those kids. The only flight that arose from black kids on bikes is the kids getting the heck out of there.

As far as Cicero, I think they have the same history with black people as Dearborn. Residents of Dearborn were so worried about black people that they didn't notice all the Middle Eastern people moving in. Cicero was the same way except Cicero wound up with Mexicans.

Kids on bikes. Good one...

[xphillipjrx]

I'm no Chicago expert, but some of my friends who've lived there say it's more racially charged than Detroit proper. Like, we were some of the few white folks hanging at the Carpet House and everybody was very nice to us. But they said that if that were Chicago, we would not be welcome at all. At least on that narrow point, I'll take Detroit.

Detroit's segregation is the black city vs the white suburbs. Chicago's segregation is neighborhood by neighborhood. Detroit has black/white/arab. Chicago has black/white/latino. Within the white it's Irish, German, Polish, Italian, Greek etc. Within the latino it's Mexican, Puerto Rican and all the other Latino countries. Don't forget about Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese and other Asian countries.

Each ethnicity has it's own part of the city. Drive W on Lawrence starting at Lake Shore Drive and you'll lose count of the different neighborhoods.

Chicago as a whole is fine, but there are some 2-3 square block areas where I'd watch my back even in broad daylight.

[wolverine]

We shouldn't want to be like Chicago

YES! This is the most important point here. Certainly I moved to Chicago because it's characteristics appealed to me, but Detroit needs to do something different, something original and creative that will attract people. It needs its own selling points. Instead of reading about the vacant, worn out, high crime city of today, it's the well populated, modern, zero carbon city of tomorrow.

[mpf]

2 Wal-marts doesn't sound impressive. It sounds ghetto.

The reason is the SEIU unions, which keep city council and daley under their thumb...otherwise, like the suburbs, walmart would be inside the city big-time.

[DetroitDad]

LOL, it's all about having neighborhoods with buildings too! Since my job offered me the choice between these two cities, I chose Chicago because the neighborhoods had actual built structures that were inhabited by people. You could walk 20 blocks in any direction and find continuous rows of occupied well kept structures, broken by maybe a factory or park, and 20 more blocks of occupied structures after that. Some are new some are old. They are constructed with primary attention given to the pedestrian. They are flanked by commercial streets with buildings as well. The buildings have stores and restaurants in them. The stores cater to the people who live in the neighborhoods, and the people in the neighborhoods enjoy shopping and eating at them. They come in great varieities, but the imporant part is that you can walk to them in minutes or even take a train to other neighborhoods with new and old buildings too where you will find different restaurants and stores.

Wow, a functioning thing called city. We need more of them, and we need to preserve more of them and come to their aid before they are gone.

A Chicago street with occupied buildings. In the future, all midwest cities should strive for this environment

Exactly Wolverine!

I like Chicago, and while I agree that Detroit should not try to be Chicago, I see nothing wrong with looking at what has worked in other cities and taking the best examples of what makes a good urban place from each. Innovation should be left up to more able cities, since untested innovation tends to cost a lot of money, and is often a failure.

If we just followed what has worked in great cities, and look at what has worked for Detroit in the better days of the past, we'll find a improved Detroit and a society that people are proud to be a part of and fight for [[as opposed to the one of today, that most seem to feel they have to escape from or overcome).

Now, why Chicago would ever want to be like New York is a whole new can of worms...

[Patrick]

I was asking a friend who grew up in both Chicago and Detroit in some of the worst areas of both cities. He mentioned that some areas are racially charged more than others but not lile the Detroit area at all. I can't speak personally for Chicago since I have only been there once.

[GOAT]

I don't think that racial divide exists in Detroit anymore. It is a predominately black city. It is now a class divide. Those with some money left want out, while those who don't have to stay.

Even in the suburbs there is more racial harmony then there was in the past. Not that racism doesn't exist but it is mroe tame. Now it is about who lives like me and who wants the same things out of life staying together trying to keep those who live differently out.

Ask yourself. Do you want to live next to people who have the same ideals as you [[perhaps a nice urban living, well kept building/house, socially involved) or would you rather live next to uneducated people/person who doesn't care about anything but themselves?

Be honest, Detroit is unfortunately filled with the latter in most cases; those will little education trying to scrap by, hemmed in by violent crime.

[English]

YES! This is the most important point here. Certainly I moved to Chicago because it's characteristics appealed to me, but Detroit needs to do something different, something original and creative that will attract people. It needs its own selling points. Instead of reading about the vacant, worn out, high crime city of today, it's the well populated, modern, zero carbon city of tomorrow.

That's exactly right. Chicago is a great, livable city with many amenities. I tried to do the Field in a single afternoon this winter and my feet are still punishing me for it.

In response to DetroitDad's comment, New York is pure magic. I have always regarded native New Yorkers with something akin to awe. The ladies my age whom I've met always seem to have this sort of effortless style and cool -- in college, and then in grad school, I always found myself taking cues for hair, makeup and especially clothing from them. I'm used to being pretty stylish, am definitely a city girl and always will be, but I'll never in a million years be a NYC girl. I know my lane!

*singing Alicia Keys' part in Jay-Z's "Empire State of Mind"*

[DetroitDad]

That's exactly right. Chicago is a great, livable city with many amenities. I tried to do the Field in a single afternoon this winter and my feet are still punishing me for it.

In response to DetroitDad's comment, New York is pure magic. I have always regarded native New Yorkers with something akin to awe. The ladies my age whom I've met always seem to have this sort of effortless style and cool -- in college, and then in grad school, I always found myself taking cues for hair, makeup and especially clothing from them. I'm used to being pretty stylish, am definitely a city girl and always will be, but I'll never in a million years be a NYC girl. I know my lane!

*singing Alicia Keys' part in Jay-Z's "Empire State of Mind"*

New York has a lot of vigor and life, but is nothing special when it comes to design. Personally, I like the sweeping radial boulevards, terminating vistas, and beautifully landscaped streets and parks of cities like Paris, of which Detroit was modeled after.

There was DetroitYES poster who once posted a story in which their out of town fiancée from a post war city/country whom they were driving around town, asked the question; "so, who bombed you guys?".

I love that story, because what happened to many cities after great wars or tragedies [[if they managed to not be totally abandoned) was that they were rebuilt "right". Detroit's urban environment is going to be built around these grand urban places, like the River Walk, Campus Martius, the radial boulevards, and hopefully other such things, instead of those type of spaces being built around existing things that you'd expect to find [[often poorly designed) in an aging American City.

It's an exciting time to be in The D!

[DetroitDad]

Why are folks always trying to slam Chicago on this board, I really can't understand it. If the media focuses attention on Chicago, how does that change the crime issue in Detroit?

Agreed!

To many of my fellow Metro Detroiters are quick to say "screw whoever", but they still want something for nothing.

[DetroitDad]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/bu...usiness&src=me

He picks the papers off his desk and points to a figure in red: $5.01 billion.

“This is what the state owes right now to schools, rehabilitation centers, child care, the state university — and it’s getting worse every single day,” he says in his downtown office.

Mr. Hynes shakes his head. “This is not some esoteric budget issue; we are not paying bills for absolutely essential services,” he says. “That is obscene.”

The governor proposes to borrow $3.5 billion to cover a year’s worth of pension payments, a step that would cost about $1 billion in interest. And every major rating agency has downgraded the state; Illinois now pays millions of dollars more to insure its debt than any other state in the nation.

Illinois legislators tend to plead victim to economic circumstance, and the state’s maladies are considerable. In 2006, the Illinois unemployment rate stood below 5 percent; now it is near 11 percent, and the percentage of long-term unemployed exceeds the national average. Major manufacturers have eliminated thousands of jobs, and the state ranks in the top 10 nationally in foreclosures.

Five years ago, the Chicago suburb of Tinley Park issued about 650 home building permits; last year it processed one. The city of Rockford plans to close fire stations and lay off firefighters, and in Decatur, 180 impoverished seniors have lost their delivered meals. The lakeshore condo towers in Chicago bespeak affluence, but there are so many foreclosures on the bungalow blocks of southern and western Chicago that “for sale” signs sprout like sunflowers.

Few budget analysts are surprised to see Illinois, with a limping economy and broken political culture, edge close to the abyss. Two of the last six governors have served jail terms, and a third is on trial.

“We are a fiscal poster child for what not to do,” said Ralph Martire of the Center for Tax and Budget Accountability, a liberal-leaning policy group in Illinois. “We make California look as if it’s run by penurious accountants who sit in rooms trying to put together an honest budget all day.”

“Everything is triage now,” he said. “We work to avoid outright disaster".

There is some irony and a lesson to be learned in all this.

[wolverine]

I know of a few Chicago community centers owed tens of millions. Come on State of Illinois time to pay up. Not to mention, hand over about a half billion so we can finish our mega transit centers.