Are these Detroit buildings worth saving?

[canuck]

Is Detroit exclusive? There is "American" automotive history inside and outside of Detroit as well as history of where the automotive giants lived, worked and played. Grayhaven, some of the old delapitated mansions in Downtown Detroit were residences of executives in the auto industry. The entire region is historical yet the powers that be don't seem to feel there is much historical significance to any of it. Why?

This may have to do with a disregard for history and the need for impermanence. The transiency of ex-Detroiters toward the suburbs or elsewhere, the built in obsolescence factor has a lot to do with it. You could say that Detroit had that obsolescence built into it from the dawn of the car industry. The beacon of consumerism and enthusiasm for speed at all costs finally imploded. All that was wrong with the US, the congregation of eager working class people competing for a place in the repetitive stakes, the egomania and the futility, the waste, the air conditioned nightmare Henry Miller so aptly ascribed to America. All this stuff needed to implode. Detroit's product was meant to annihilate class divisions but in its stead this product just reinforced the hatred, the sadness and erosion of a community by creating unsustainable wealth. But that doesnt mean it cant be tomorrow's new land of Oz.

[jtf1972]

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the MCS tower were to be demoed & the station kept, that somehow during the tower demo the station would one morning become "structurally unsound."

[ConantNHolbrook]

Sorry for the meandering, but can someone tell me why the Iron St. Loft building seems to have remained so vibrant? Less than a mile from the Globe, yet it really seems to have clung to life.

[DetroitPole]

It doesn't matter...we live in the neanderthal region where we love sprawl and temporary parks. City and suburbs, it doesn't matter, it's like we're still in the 60's.

[Russix]

That's not a very good question considering new office space with state of the art technologies is also vacant.

Packard wasn't vacant when the city started demolishing it, illegally. Obsolete or not, not vacant.

[ghettopalmetto]

The Detroit of the Future!

[DetroitDad]

Frank Lloyd Wright once stated [[paraphrasing) that "architecture is what future civilizations will judge our civilization on".

God Bless The USA!


[[Above)The street level retail helps!


[[Above) Color has been added to dress up this drab structure.


[[Above) How enjoyable it must be to be a pedestrian here.



[[Above) Of course, here in Detroit we saved money and a building and just turned our architecture into the parking garage

[[Below) And Abandoning this...



[[Below) For this;




[[Above) Already paid an advance, and out of ideas at 4am, the architect team smokes some marijuana and finally has an epihany around a plate of Better Made potato chips and Pringles. Of course, they will tell those that hired them that they got the idea from how the building showcases and frames itself, and flows well with the sky in the future.... blah, blah blah... like the line of bologna they spew to everyone else, to convince them the emporer is actually wearing clothes.

[[Below) And this is what they came up with while making Faygo smoothies around a twelve speed blender.




[[Below) And this is what they came up with while watching an old Marilyn Monroe movie.





[[Above) Afterwards they will probably need to visit the Great Albany Toi... well, that probably shouldn't be said here.


God Bless The USA!

[Gistok]

Gistok Quote... "Frank Lloyd Wright once stated [[paraphrasing) that "architecture is what future civilizations will judge our civilization on."

Screw FLW! He was a man who slept with his clients.He would have pulled all these buildings down and built his own Taliesen East in Detroit. What good would that have done? Falling down half assed built buildings made for aesthetes to stare at and marvel at their cleverness. No thank you. Detroit is a brass knuckle stab them in the alley way and take their dough kinbd of place, not white collar behind a desk sneakery!

What a silly reply... most of his clients were men... the people he slept with were women [[sometimes married, but not always the wives of clients)....

All I did was quote one of the greatest architects of the 20th century [[infidelities aside), and you came up with some off the wall Taliesin East comment...

Lord only knows what you think about Stanford White [[of the very famous McKim, Meade & White architectural firm) who designed the Silver's Building... and caused the great infidelity scandal of 1906 [[that cost him his life).

And lord knows what Michaelangelo was boinking in the 16th century... it neither matters nor should it detract from his artistic genius.

So why should you be presumptuous enough to equate the genius of the artistic temperment with sexual appetites??

Baffling to say the least....

[Whitehouse]

God Bless The USA!

[[Above) Already paid an advance, and out of ideas at 4am, the architect team smokes some marijuana and finally has an epihany around a plate of Better Made potato chips and Pringles. Of course, they will tell those that hired them that they got the idea from how the building showcases and frames itself, and flows well with the sky in the future.... blah, blah blah... like the line of bologna they spew to everyone else, to convince them the emporer is actually wearing clothes.

An uncanny resemblance to the design of the new 400 meters ice stadium Thialf in Heerenveen, the Netherlands.

[[On the right the current football stadium of sc Heerenveen)


The Abe Lenstrastadium as it will appear in a few years. If the Fifa worldcup is awarded to The Netherlands and Belgium in 2018, this will be one of the stadiums used for this tournament. By the the new Thialf will be completed.

And because we do it big, we do it double. This 400 meter track is build like a big mac, there will be another 400 meter track.... in the basement as a training facility. We do take speedskating serious!

The current Thialf., the second fully covered speedskating facility in the world, behind the Berlin ring.







Horribly off topic I'm affaid....

[Whitehouse]

The Detroit of the Future!

Good grief!!!

Is that a Yamasaki nighmare?? That would have ended like Pruitt-Igoe.

[wolverine]

No, it's Corbusier's plan for central Paris. Just imagine all the wonderful buildings and urbanism in Paris leveled for that monstrosity.

[Michigan]

Gistok Quote... "Frank Lloyd Wright once stated [[paraphrasing) that "architecture is what future civilizations will judge our civilization on."



What a silly reply... most of his clients were men... the people he slept with were women [[sometimes married, but not always the wives of clients)....

All I did was quote one of the greatest architects of the 20th century [[infidelities aside), and you came up with some off the wall Taliesin East comment...

Lord only knows what you think about Stanford White [[of the very famous McKim, Meade & White architectural firm) who designed the Silver's Building... and caused the great infidelity scandal of 1906 [[that cost him his life).

And lord knows what Michaelangelo was boinking in the 16th century... it neither matters nor should it detract from his artistic genius.

So why should you be presumptuous enough to equate the genius of the artistic temperment with sexual appetites??

Baffling to say the least....

I have no idea if FLW slept with men, I never researched that because it didn't interest me, obviously it does interest you.

Presumptuous, Herr Gistok? I think not. The man would have had no interest in preserving Detroit's current buildings. He hated most American architecture that wasn't his, or derived from his school. That was what I wrote, I suppose you are too blinded by your heated desire to uncover FLW's gay fetishes to see the forest for the trees.

[Hermod]

I would put Frank Lloyd Wright down on the basis that his designs were not durable. Everyone of his designs has required excessive maintenance and if just let go quickly crumbles.

FLW's designs will be a very expensive "legacy" is we try to maintain them for the future.

[Gistok]

Michigan... arguing with you is beyond pointless... nice try at twisting around what I was trying to say.... just go back to watching your "GLEE" show and keep praying that they will one day come to Detroit to make it a better place....

Troll.........

[Michigan]

HAH! Glee Live IS coming to Detroit [[metro area). SO don't tell me it isn't possible.You are so jealous of anyone who is smarter than you. Sad really.

[bailey]

I have no idea if FLW slept with men, I never researched that because it didn't interest me, obviously it does interest you.

Presumptuous, Herr Gistok? I think not. The man would have had no interest in preserving Detroit's current buildings. He hated most American architecture that wasn't his, or derived from his school. That was what I wrote, I suppose you are too blinded by your heated desire to uncover FLW's gay fetishes to see the forest for the trees.

No need to speculate on that point. Just go to the man himself.

In The Owner-Built Home, architect and writer Ken Kern tells how Wright was contracted by the city to produce a plan that would make Detroit more livable. After due consideration, Wright made a typically dramatic presentation at a meeting of the City Council. He said, "I suggest, you tear it all down and start over.

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=9372

[gnome]

Frank Lloyd Wright once stated [[paraphrasing) that "architecture is what future civilizations will judge our civilization on".

Leaky roofs, drafty, kitchenettes in 4000 sq ft mansions, hateful chairs, no closets, but nice fireplaces.

along with snips, snails and puppydog tails, that's what FLW is made of.

[Hypestyles]

Raze them all-- I'm sick of all the blight and nothing being done with it, just properties deteriorating slowly but surely... if they are to be rehabbed, whose going to do it? with what money? why haven't they stepped up yet? is it going to take another 10.. 15.. 20 years with "what if"-project speculation?

[Gistok]

FLW may have mentioned that all of Detroit should have been leveled.... but that wasn't during modern times where more than half of the housing stock and people are gone... but in the 1950s [[he died in 1959). And back then the city was at nearly 2 million people with most neighborhoods still fully intact. So he was likely being rather flippant in his comments.

Gnome....FLW was an oddball alright... and yes low ceilings, dampness problems [[especially at Fallingwater), and all sorts of quirky details.... and likely most people wouldn't want to live in one of his houses [[unless you were "sophisticated" enough). But I bet they fetch a hefty price when they come up for sale [[the Turkel fixer-upper went for $400K).

I would never want to live in one [[only visit)... and even his S.C. Johnson factory in Racine WI has no windows for employees to look out of!!

[DetroitDad]

....Horribly off topic I'm affaid....

Yeah, sorry.

I took this as a fluff story; it's fun to talk about, but doesn't really provide for serious discussion.

[Michigan]

FLW may have mentioned that all of Detroit should have been leveled.... but that wasn't during modern times where more than half of the housing stock and people are gone... but in the 1950s [[he died in 1959). And back then the city was at nearly 2 million people with most neighborhoods still fully intact. So he was likely being rather flippant in his comments.

Gnome....FLW was an oddball alright... and yes low ceilings, dampness problems [[especially at Fallingwater), and all sorts of quirky details.... and likely most people wouldn't want to live in one of his houses [[unless you were "sophisticated" enough). But I bet they fetch a hefty price when they come up for sale [[the Turkel fixer-upper went for $400K).

I would never want to live in one [[only visit)... and even his S.C. Johnson factory in Racine WI has no windows for employees to look out of!!

So, I was right and you are just being obstinant. Nice to know

[Gistok]

So, I was right and you are just being obstinant. Nice to know

No... I finally realized that I would make better use of my time arguing with Danny than to try debating you....

FLW was a genius... but with a big ego... that was never in question... And just like many more modern architects... [[such as Frank Gehry, and the Dane who designed the Sydney Opera House)... architects who design unusual or "innovative" architecture.... that often means "maintenance nightmare".

But that doesn't mean that we should completely dismiss them just based on some of their quirkiness or flawed brilliance.

[douglasm]

I'm agreeing with Hermod. The problem with saving every damn building in Detroit is what are you going to do with them? Many abandoned buildings, be they office towers or empty factories, are beautiful. That's not in question. But if there isn't a chance in hell that they can be reused in a way that makes economic sense, what do you end up with? Answer: What you got now. A burning Packard Plant. A scrapped out Lee Plaza. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there should be some sort of 10 year rule. That is, if a building abandoned 10 years or more does not have a development plan that will put it to good use within the NEXT 10 years, it should be leveled. Seattle, which has a very active preservation community, is beginning to address this problem now in light of a very high downtown office vacency rate.

[Novine]

"I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there should be some sort of 10 year rule. That is, if a building abandoned 10 years or more does not have a development plan that will put it to good use within the NEXT 10 years, it should be leveled. "

With what money? Detroit doesn't have the money to fund basic city services. Why would the city want to spend a cent on creating another vacant lot when it can't fund basic services?

[ghettopalmetto]

But if there isn't a chance in hell that they can be reused in a way that makes economic sense, what do you end up with? Answer: What you got now.

This is simply wrong. "What you got now" is the deliberate result of a secretive, private group of people who shut out all parties other than their pet pre-selected developers, and spend millions upon millions of public dollars to demolish the city's historic fabric with absolutely zero long-term vision or plans for filling the residual space, and even less accountability to the public.