Solutions to Detroit's Crime Problem???

**mwilbert** · May-25-10, 05:56 PM

I'm skeptical that jobs are the solution. Ignoring the overwhelming probability that there aren't going to be significantly more jobs in the area for the foreseeable future, the truth is that there used to be more jobs, but there was still plenty of crime. Jobs are good, but the people in criminal population and its feeder system aren't on the first-hired list, nor does the Detroit educational system prepare the vast majority of young people for meaningful work. In the long run you could imagine that better availability of jobs might change the environment, and the incentives of the population, and lead to improved behavior, but there we are talking a multi-generational timeframe.

So if we can't easily increase the availability and desirability of the option of legitimate work, what we need to do is decrease the availability and desirability of criminal work. I would commend the writings of Mark Kleiman to your attention. You can get his When Brute Force Fails in ebook form for free [[no, I don't know if it is legal; I did send him a note telling him it was out there) at http://ebooks-freedownload.com/2010/...have-less.html

**Patrick** · May-25-10, 06:23 PM

Bring in more immigrants and I think the crime would drop.

Retroit · May-25-10, 08:32 PM

Good points, mwilbert. Also, many people in Detroit once had jobs, but got fired due to tardiness, underperformance, failing drug tests, stealing on the job, coming to work hung over, and the list goes on. Unfortunately, these people set the standard which makes employers leery about further hiring Detroiters [[or opening up business in Detroit).

**mjs** · May-25-10, 10:08 PM

It is complex. I won't deny that unemployment is a factor, but look at parts of the city and parts of the UP where unemployment is higher, but crime is lower. Its only one example of where an urban area has higher crime rate than a poorer more rural area. What's the source of that phenomena? Despair?

I really think tearing down abandoned structures is going to help by literally pushing the criminals into the light of day. It provides hope and community pride and involvement which can hopefully undermine don't snitch though I'll admit I'll never understand that idea. Why would someone side with the guy that undermines their quality of life and what they stand for?

I also like Wolverine's broken windows theory of ticketing for minor infractions. If the little things aren't accepted, those pushing the limits of society won't feel the need to do the big things. Of course there's the reality that you can't get blood from a stone, but if an infringer can't pay, it often means they don't work, which means they should be glad to work it off. Cleaner neighborhoods goes back to the ideas above. There's also the idea that if the fines can support the cops writing the fines, there will be more cops on the street thus increasing the odds of their being at the right place at the right time.

**agirlintheD** · May-26-10, 01:26 PM

Good, old-fashioned accountability...responsibility for actions. Consequences. Respect. Back to basics. Square one. Education. Higher expectations [[stop lowering standards). No, I don't have my head buried in the sand. But in the name of all that is good, we have to start somewhere. We really can't afford to lose one more life.

**Luckystrikes** · May-26-10, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Money is tight, so fighting crime will be difficult with the existing resources

so......

Start busting people for petty crimes. Fine people for littering, running red lights, vandalism. None of this police ignore the small stuff. Start racking up money and funnel that towards fighting the big crimes. Trust me, you''ll fix a lot of problems along the way.

I agree. Ignoring the small stuff ignites the big stuff.

**Luckystrikes** · May-26-10, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by mjs

It is complex. I won't deny that unemployment is a factor, but look at parts of the city and parts of the UP where unemployment is higher, but crime is lower. Its only one example of where an urban area has higher crime rate than a poorer more rural area. What's the source of that phenomena? Despair?

A high unemployment rate hurts the community but does not constitute murder. Not having a job is not an excuse to kill. I can understand non-violent crimes going up due to unemployment, but not killing someone for no reason other than they looked at you wrong.

**agirlintheD** · May-27-10, 12:27 PM

If you can't beat em, join em.

**GOAT** · May-27-10, 12:32 PM

one word...EDUCATION. [[well that was three but now it is more...you get the point).

**hamtown mike** · May-27-10, 12:52 PM

I agree with wolverine. Make crime NOT pay. Currently the limited risk and benefit of doing the wrong things far outweigh the benefits of doing the right thing.

It's a slippery slope. "Hmm look I just ditched my McDonald's bag out the window and nothing happened. I wonder what else I can get away with?"

I'm not trying to say that a young litterbug is going to become the next John Wayne Gacy, but each small infraction opens the door just a pinch more. Each nudge allowing someone to think they can get away with something more risky like say shooting a teenager at the store because you didn't like the way he looked at you.

And oh, unhandcuff the police so they can handcuff the bad guys. Allow a police officer's peace to be disturbed etc etc etc.

**mjs** · May-29-10, 03:19 AM

Very well said hamtown and agirlinthed. When I was a defense attorney and had to hear the cry baby tirades of my clients that admitted guilt, I often felt like yelling at them that if they feel minor crimes are treated too harshly or harsher here than there, they should just stop violating them or do them elsewhere. The whole idea is to make behaving irresponsibly be a pain in the ass.

**exmotowner** · May-30-10, 05:15 PM

There are some good ideas out there and yes it certainly is going to take many things at once. One thing is for sure though, if you keep doing the same thing you will get the same results.

I used joke that i thought they should just put a wall around Highland Park and make it a prison then there would be some jobs for the city and the criminals will be able to see where they are going. Of course just joking about it. The more that I think of it there is enough empty space to build a super max prison somewhere in the city limits. They would employee several hundreds of people. Not block off HP, but there could be somewhere in that vast city that one could be built away from downtown. Then start using it. LOL. I know its not a solution. I have seen some great ideas on here and just about all of them need to be adressed to help reduce the crime rate in the D. Just a thought guys. It would bring some jobs.

**Jimaz** · May-30-10, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by exmotowner

I used joke that i thought they should just put a wall around Highland Park and make it a prison then there would be some jobs for the city and the criminals will be able to see where they are going. Of course just joking about it. The more that I think of it there is enough empty space to build a super max prison somewhere in the city limits. They would employee several hundreds of people. Not block off HP, but there could be somewhere in that vast city that one could be built away from downtown. Then start using it. LOL. I know its not a solution. I have seen some great ideas on here and just about all of them need to be adressed to help reduce the crime rate in the D. Just a thought guys. It would bring some jobs.

You might want to check out the Prison Valley thread first.

DetroitPole · May-30-10, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

Good points, mwilbert. Also, many people in Detroit once had jobs, but got fired due to tardiness, underperformance, failing drug tests, stealing on the job, coming to work hung over, and the list goes on. Unfortunately, these people set the standard which makes employers leery about further hiring Detroiters [[or opening up business in Detroit).

Do you have anything to back this up? Anything at all?

**jams** · May-30-10, 08:13 PM

As usual, simplistic answers to complex questions.

In order to have jobs you need employers.

Why should an employer set up shop within the confines of Detroit's borders?

If you were such an employer, would you give a graduate of DPS special consideration for an entry level job, or would you hire a suburbanite who recently moved here, professing a love for the city?

**313WX** · May-30-10, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by jams

As usual, simplistic answers to complex questions.

In order to have jobs you need employers.

Why should an employer set up shop within the confines of Detroit's borders?

If you were such an employer, would you give a graduate of DPS special consideration for an entry level job, or would you hire a suburbanite who recently moved here, professing a love for the city?

Given the economy, they would most likely give the job to someone with "enough" experience in that particular field, no matter their level of education [[but not too mcuh because they'll have to pay them more) or one of their close associates/relatives who fell on hard times.

**Crumbled_pavement** · June-01-10, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Do you have anything to back this up? Anything at all?

You must be new here. Most of us know to ignore that moron. He has a prominent and perminent spot on my ignore list.

**R8RBOB** · June-01-10, 04:38 PM

Good points, mwilbert. Also, many people in Detroit once had jobs, but got fired due to tardiness, underperformance, failing drug tests, stealing on the job, coming to work hung over, and the list goes on. Unfortunately, these people set the standard which makes employers leery about further hiring Detroiters [[or opening up business in Detroit).

Do you have anything to back this up? Anything at all?

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

You must be new here. Most of us know to ignore that moron. He has a prominent and perminent spot on my ignore list.

After reading this, I could assume that Retroit is your typical Rush Limbaugh listening suburbanite. He probably believe that the recession was caused by po' folk getting loans they couldn't afford to pay back. To Re: Next time you want to make such a ludicrous statement like that you should substitute the word people with "Black folks." We wouldn't want you hiding by using code words now.

**Patrick** · June-01-10, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by English

Jobs, jobs, and more jobs.

Skills, skills,s and more skills. How can the unskilled laborers in Detroit learn new trades? I am talking about modern-day knowledge-based skills.

**dookie joe** · June-01-10, 08:18 PM

What was the solution to the Devil's Night problem? The police/city decided to reach out to the citizens and ask for their help. They made the citizens a partner in the solution.

We need the same thing now: Rather than viewing the citizens as the enemy, the police/city need to reach out to the community and ask for their help.

The way it's being handled now -- flooding high-crime areas with "strike force" storm troopers -- is the exact thing NOT to do. It pits the community vs. the police, at a time when we desperately need the opposite.

If I was chief of police, community relations would be my number one priority. If the cops had the help of the people, their jobs would be a hellova lot easier. And if the people felt like they had a stake in what the police were doing, they'd likely get a lot more involved.

A huge majority of the people in this city are hard-working people who aren't out there committing crimes. I don't see the point in "cracking down" with special forces, sweeping entire neighborhoods in the hopes of finding a gun or two.

Besides, I don't think that's the goal anyway. The goal is revenue through tickets/forfietures.

**Crumbled_pavement** · June-01-10, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by dookie joe

What was the solution to the Devil's Night problem? The police/city decided to reach out to the citizens and ask for their help. They made the citizens a partner in the solution.

We need the same thing now: Rather than viewing the citizens as the enemy, the police/city need to reach out to the community and ask for their help.

The way it's being handled now -- flooding high-crime areas with "strike force" storm troopers -- is the exact thing NOT to do. It pits the community vs. the police, at a time when we desperately need the opposite.

If I was chief of police, community relations would be my number one priority. If the cops had the help of the people, their jobs would be a hellova lot easier. And if the people felt like they had a stake in what the police were doing, they'd likely get a lot more involved.

A huge majority of the people in this city are hard-working people who aren't out there committing crimes. I don't see the point in "cracking down" with special forces, sweeping entire neighborhoods in the hopes of finding a gun or two.

Besides, I don't think that's the goal anyway. The goal is revenue through tickets/forfietures.

Dookie Joe, thanks for your post. You made some very good points. I think the solution involves addressing many issues. The best thing this administration could do is to look at what worked in fixing crime issues in other major cities and then emulate that. Like I said before I doubt there is the political will to do it here and so far I haven't been surprised. It certainly would be good if we had a leader that brought the productive law abiding citizens together with the police to address the crime issues in the city. Not only that, but the other issues that feed into crime [[parenting, education, environment, economy, etc.) need to be addressed if we are ever to see a long term solution. Bing may be an improvement over Kilpatrick, but he is still a long ways away from what Detroit truly needs.

**jt1** · June-01-10, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

Good points, mwilbert. Also, many people in Detroit once had jobs, but got fired due to tardiness, underperformance, failing drug tests, stealing on the job, coming to work hung over, and the list goes on. Unfortunately, these people set the standard which makes employers leery about further hiring Detroiters [[or opening up business in Detroit).

Statistics or data please.

**jt1** · June-01-10, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by GOAT

one word...EDUCATION. [[well that was three but now it is more...you get the point).

Actually two words - education;opportunity.

Education in a vacuum does nothing if there is not opportunity as an outlet. People often miss this very simple point

**jt1** · June-01-10, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Given the economy, they would most likely give the job to someone with "enough" experience in that particular field, no matter their level of education [[but not too mcuh because they'll have to pay them more) or one of their close associates/relatives who fell on hard times.

So we are ignoring realism. We all know very well that all things equal the Detroit address will hurt most potential employees.

**jt1** · June-01-10, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Skills, skills,s and more skills. How can the unskilled laborers in Detroit learn new trades? I am talking about modern-day knowledge-based skills.

And how are these 'skills' applied We have a region with horrible mass transit. A region that has a history of giving preference by address [[yes, CoD gives preference to Detroiters but the rest looks poorly on the Detroit address). We have a region that spreads jobs further and further away from the population center.