Oil Containment Solution Randomizer

[oladub]

Oladub, since you're the strict constructionist guy, please cite the clause in the Constitution that requires the federal government to clean up after private-sector losses. I'm getting pretty damned sick and tired of your cult insisting on privatizing profits and socializing losses. Profit and responsibility MUST go hand-in-hand. Haven't we seen enough disasters that have resulted from the glaring disconnect your paradigm presents?

There are things that can be done to prevent the oil from reaching sensitive ecological environments. But embarking on a massive cleanup effort while the well is still gushing is a Sisyphean effort, at best.

First, I have repeatedly posted that BP should be required to pay to the extent that oil is still floating around in posts numbers 17, 38, and 76 on this thread and the federal government should be doing everything possible to clean it up in addition to whatever BP is doing. It is your corporatist big government cult that subidizes corporations.

I can't believe that you want to hold off on a massive cleanup while it is still gushing. Multitasking is possible.

I have also gone over the Constitutional duties of our Congress to provide for our defence, regulate international commerce, to define and punish felonies occuring at sea, maintain a Navy, repel invasions, and erect needed structures. Those are all powers and duties delegated in the Constitution to the federal government. In post 85, I noted that if the federal government fails to protect a state, then that state can take matters in to its own hands.and protect itself which is what Louisiana [[and Arizona) have begun doing. In either case, for the fifth time, BP should be presented with the bills.

Using your logic, if there was a fender bender with broken glass all over the road, you would make the car owners pick up all the glass themselves before the traffic could get moving. You object to the federal government's use of its powers to erect structures and repel this toxic invasion. I realize that President Obama and Congress have more talent for developing income redistribution schemes than solving pesky mechanical problems but they still have a duty to defend our shores.

[Papasito]

I realize that President Obama and Congress have more talent for developing income redistribution schemes than solving pesky mechanical problems but they still have a duty to defend our shores.

[ghettopalmetto]

So, oladub, you implicitly agree that the federal government must concomitantly enact stricter regulations and fines for deep-sea oil drilling?

And likewise, you implicitly agree that the federal government has the right and responsibility to enact similar regulations for other dangerous and polluting industries [[mining and meatpacking come to mind) without the Right crying that the government is trying to run people out of business?

This BP debacle is what you get when you let corporations run roughshod over the interests of the people. Fucking Enjoy!

[DumplingDude]

Do something--ANYTHING--willy-nilly with no plan for reaching final resolution--how very American of YOU, sir.

And we'll see if BP gets all the bills for the cleanup. We'll see about that.

Of course, when the Minerals Management Service tries to enact regulations on deep-well oil-drilling after this mess is over, the Usual Gang of Corporate Apologist Idiots is going to cry bloody murder that the government is trying to put the oil companies out of business.

Say where is that darn director Obama appointed? Damn it! Just can't find good help when you need it.

[DumplingDude]

So what you're saying is that YOU, the Great Sstashmoo, are creative and gifted. And even though you wouldn't know an oil well from your own asshole, BP should be trying your ideas. Because you said so.

Also, I love how you imply that BP's engineers are somehow uncreative. We're supposed to believe that you, sitting on your ass and bitching about government non-stop, are more competent at petroleum engineering than folks with decades of experience in the field. You and your redneck ilk could stand a good dose of reality, my friend. You couldn't engineer your way out of a paper bag, but don't let that stop you from having an unwarranted superiority complex.

The problem with you rednecks is you don't know when to concede that maybe--just MAYBE--you aren't the end-all, be-all, ever-loving shit of the earth. And just PERHAPS, you might be talking about of your asshole once in a while.

Just maybe average folks are smarter at times.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...i85Bx7T75EQU5N

[DumplingDude]

Why do you keep calling me a "redneck"? Name calling must be okay on DYES now?

Yes, although only if it is racism directed at whites . Anything else is against the rules.

[ghettopalmetto]

Good one, Dumpling Dude! That is, if you consider "The 21-year-old prodigy, who's close to completing her Ph.D. in engineering" an "average" person. [[PhD? Engineering? Isn't that just Elitism at its finest??? And she's from Long Island, to boot! The horrors!!!)

I have a better "fix"--don't make stupid-ass shortcut decisions that endanger peoples' lives. Granted, that does require a little bit of foresight, and putting profits on the back burner to safety.

[DumplingDude]

Good one, Dumpling Dude! That is, if you consider "The 21-year-old prodigy, who's close to completing her Ph.D. in engineering" an "average" person. [[PhD? Engineering? Isn't that just Elitism at its finest??? And she's from Long Island, to boot! The horrors!!!)

I have a better "fix"--don't make stupid-ass shortcut decisions that endanger peoples' lives. Granted, that does require a little bit of foresight, and putting profits on the back burner to safety.

Well yes, she is average because her phd is in math and not engineering[[not yet). I also totally agree with the last part of your post. Now lets see why they really let the oile continue ro flow and why the Obama admin has allowed it to continue. Even with the lame cap that is going to pop off because of the tremendous pressure.

My gut tells me greed. Greed and corruption. Something all of our politicians are made of and that includes your dear leader Obama.

[ghettopalmetto]

Well yes, she is average because her phd is in math and not engineering[[not yet).

Can we just let this statement stand as a testament to your insanity?

[DumplingDude]

There are rumors about that this oil leak will never be stopped. That not even a nuclear warhead can stop the flow.
Some scientists have said that this hole may be right in between two plates and thus unstoppable.

It is also predicted to make its way North up the eastern sea board, over to Europe and the carribean.
No doubt it will go all the way around the world killing our oceans and eco system. As I predicted.
Meanwhile Costner's invention sits idle.
This is a sad thing. It really is. I feel bad for our animal life and ultimately ours. As predicted many times, man will kill the earth. And we have.

[DumplingDude]

Can we just let this statement stand as a testament to your insanity?

Sure, whatever twirls your beanie babe.

[Danny]

British Petroleum will PAY for the mess. The Ghettoman told me and my Street Prophets that we will continue to protest by not going to any BP gas stations nationwide. I urge every American not to buy gas for BP until the completely fix the leak.

[oladub]

So, oladub, you implicitly agree that the federal government must concomitantly enact stricter regulations and fines for deep-sea oil drilling?

I explicitly agreed that President hasn't been been performing very well with respect to cleaning up the oil that is about to attack our shores, fisheries, tourist industry, and health. I also agreed that the federal government should stop subsidizing the petroleum industry. That would be a good place to start. Then we might not have so much to regulate. Also, it would be a good idea for the local federal regulators to be doing their jobs and enforcing existing legislation instead of watching porn on government computers as was reported in the offices of the local federal agency overseeing BP operations.

And likewise, you implicitly agree that the federal government has the right and responsibility to enact similar regulations for other dangerous and polluting industries [[mining and meatpacking come to mind) without the Right crying that the government is trying to run people out of business?

This BP debacle is what you get when you let corporations run roughshod over the interests of the people. Fucking Enjoy

Correction: This BP debacle is what you get when you let corporations run roughshod over the interests of the people after being allowed by the Bush and Obama administrations to do so.

The Constitution says the federal government has a duty to protect our shores; a job at which it is failing. Off topic but states can and do regulate some of their own mining and meatpacking. I have had cattle butchered at state licensed packing plant but never at a federal plant since the meat wasn't leaving the state. Having the federal government involved is sometimes helpful when products or pollution cross a state line and the only option when leaving the US. However, I can think of some altermative possibilities to reduce federal involvement in interstate commerce such as states requiring all packers to comply with certain agreed upon Underwriter Lab type standards. States could forbid the sale of interstate products not meeting such requuirements. I don't see the federal government doing so good at enforcing it's own immigration laws at packing plants. Let's hope they are doing a little better monitoring the meat.

You change the subject so much. First we are talking about the oil spill and Obama's inept response. Then you digress into hypothetical right wingers do this and that, make some innuendos, and ask where the Constitution authorizes defending the country. Then you start asking hypothical questions about my opinion of meat packing regulations. Instead, you should just agree that the Federal government should be more invoilved in cleaning up the oil now before a hurricane or the oil spreads all over the Atlantic.

[TKshreve]

double post

[TKshreve]

You change the subject so much. First we are talking about the oil spill and Obama's inept response. Then you digress into hypothetical right wingers do this and that, make some innuendos, and ask where the Constitution authorizes defending the country. Then you start asking hypothical questions about my opinion of meat packing regulations. Instead, you should just agree that the Federal government should be more invoilved in cleaning up the oil now before a hurricane or the oil spreads all over the Atlantic.

+1

It's tough to keep up with you GP. First you change the subject, then attack us with assumptions, racist remarks and vulgarity. It's no surprise your sympathizers are not here backing you up.

[Zacha341]

Hmmn, and if this is the case the politics will mean little in their influence of policy and a effective solution. I've considered this thing to be more a rupture, possibly made worse by some techniques to fix it unless care is taken. I've kept my comments to myself as I am "no" er' engineer and it seems sometimes only the "smart" people in the room are aloud to discuss such....

There are rumors about that this oil leak will never be stopped. That not even a nuclear warhead can stop the flow.
Some scientists have said that this hole may be right in between two plates and thus unstoppable.

It is also predicted to make its way North up the eastern sea board, over to Europe and the carribean.
No doubt it will go all the way around the world killing our oceans and eco system. As I predicted.
Meanwhile Costner's invention sits idle.
This is a sad thing. It really is. I feel bad for our animal life and ultimately ours. As predicted many times, man will kill the earth. And we have.

[Zacha341]

Good points. Were this under Bush's watch to some extent the response and expectation would be different. Opinions vary... or course in the mean time this geyser of oil continue pouring fourth. This is going to become a global issue soon.

Nice try on the spin there. Really nice. No matter how you spin it, this is a CATASTROPHE of EPIDEMIC size and it is the duty of our government to make sure it is taken care of asap. I guess 36 days of nothing is pretty fast depending on who is in office. Had it been Bush you would be all over tv crying and moaning about how he hates black people. [[see how that race card thing works ).

...This spill is neverending, untold amounts of oil polluting our earth and our potus sits on his ass until it appears to be too late. As a matter of fact this administration just passed 11 laws a week prior to the spill to ease up on restrictions of offshore drilling. MMS under Obma's watch had the EPIC FAILURE of not doing the proper inspections and reports of this particular rig just 2 weeks prior.

This could have been stopped had the Obama administration done their job. They knew the dangers of offshore drilling and still fumbled the ball and let BP get away with this.

On top of all this the Director of MMS steps down abruptly without explanation.

Yea, this administration is doing just ducky.

[Zacha341]

Breaking: Coast guard logs show gov't knew oil spill was devastating within hours

This is a conservative article so it may be dismissed as rubbish but it cites some interesting information...

http://www.examiner.com/x-37620-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m6d4-Breaking-Coast-guard-logs-show-govt-knew-oil-spill-was-devastating-within-hours

Contrary to early reports from the Obama Administration that it was not aware of the catastrophic nature of the Gulf oil spill, newly-released Coast Guard logs show that the government knew within hours that the spill would be devastating. According to Public Integrity, the government almost immediately assessed that the gusher would emit at least 8000 barrels of oil into the Gulf per day. By April 23 it had revised that estimate significantly upward.

And what did Barack Obama know, and when did he know it? The bombshell answer is from the Public Integrity report:

Over the first three days of the crisis — long before the public heard of a leak — the minimum estimate for a total well blowout ballooned eight-fold and the president was warned by his top aides that a major spill larger than the 1989 Exxon Valdez might be coming, according to the documents and interviews.

This fact, plus the Coast Guard's original assessment of the looming threat, were curiously omitted from official White House briefings on the spill.

But that's not all. On the very first day of the disaster the Coast Guard had informed the Obama Administration that the safety valve was not working and that underwater devices could not repair it:

Officials also learned within the first day of the disaster that the blowout preventer — an oil rig safety device that is supposed to cut off a well in case of an accident — was not functioning and could not be manually repaired by remote underwater robots.
“The second attempt of the ROV to shut-in the well has failed,” an entry at 11 a.m. CDT on April 21 read.
By April 23, the Coast Guard logs include a new estimate that a full blowout could result in a spill of 64,000 to 110,000 barrels per day, the logs show.
The leak estimates revealing an early awareness of a potential catastrophe are missing from the White House’s official timeline of the crisis.

Public Integrity goes further to provide a complete timeline of events, which vindicates what Obama critics have been saying all along, namely, that the Administration's failure to adequately address the looming disaster in a timely fashion is precisely what led to the growing devastation of the Gulf coastline.

[oladub]

Besides knowing about the rupture within hours, the federal government sat on some photos and accepted BP's numbers.
BP and Feds Withheld Videos Showing Massive Scope of Oil Spill
Coast Guard Told Public Not to 'Fixate' On Rate of Spill While Sitting On Video

By going along with the 5,000 barrel figure, the federal government was, in effect, providing a subsidy because there is a monetary fine based on the amount of oil spilled per day.

"A clause buried deep in the U.S. Clean Water Act may expose BP and others to civil fines that aren't limited to any finite cap -- unlike a $75 million limit on compensation for economic damages. The Act allows the government to seek civil penalties in court for every drop of oil that spills into U.S. navigable waters, including the area of BP's leaking well.
As a result, the U.S. government could seek to fine BP or others up to $4,300 for every barrel leaked into the U.S. Gulf, according to legal experts and official documents."

"The basic fine, according to the act, is $1,100 per barrel spilled. But the penalty can rise to $4,300 a barrel if a federal court rules the spill resulted from gross negligence."

http://planetark.org/wen/58175

[DumplingDude]

Good one, Dumpling Dude! And she's from Long Island, to boot! The horrors!!!).

I just caught this. Am I to think you are under the impression Long Island is some great place to live?

If so, I suggest you put down the US Weekly and National Enq. and get out of Detroit once in a while.

With the exception of a couple of small towns on the North Shore and in and around the Hamptons, Long Island is pretty much ghetto. Not just by my standards but the standards of many.
The crime rate is ridiculous.
Even the North Shore and the Hamptons are not all that. Sure there are some nice homes and a lot of great average everyday people but for the most part it is ruined by the likes of Trump and Puffy and their trashy pals who think they own the world. Please.
If you want to believe Long Island is something special by all means, go right ahead.
Like I said, whatever twirls your beanie.

[DumplingDude]

Besides knowing about the rupture within hours, the federal government sat on some photos and accepted BP's numbers.
BP and Feds Withheld Videos Showing Massive Scope of Oil Spill
Coast Guard Told Public Not to 'Fixate' On Rate of Spill While Sitting On Video

By going along with the 5,000 barrel figure, the federal government was, in effect, providing a subsidy because there is a monetary fine based on the amount of oil spilled per day.

"A clause buried deep in the U.S. Clean Water Act may expose BP and others to civil fines that aren't limited to any finite cap -- unlike a $75 million limit on compensation for economic damages. The Act allows the government to seek civil penalties in court for every drop of oil that spills into U.S. navigable waters, including the area of BP's leaking well.
As a result, the U.S. government could seek to fine BP or others up to $4,300 for every barrel leaked into the U.S. Gulf, according to legal experts and official documents."

"The basic fine, according to the act, is $1,100 per barrel spilled. But the penalty can rise to $4,300 a barrel if a federal court rules the spill resulted from gross negligence."

http://planetark.org/wen/58175

Anyone with half a brain could just look at the oil gushing and tell that was much [[is) more than a measly 5000 barrels a day. It is more along the lines of a million barrels a day and that is conservative considering the evidence.

[DumplingDude]

Good points. Were this under Bush's watch to some extent the response and expectation would be different. Opinions vary... or course in the mean time this geyser of oil continue pouring fourth. This is going to become a global issue soon.

According to our friends on the left Bush is not only responsible for the oil spill he is also responsible for Al and Tipper Gore divorcing.

All I have to ask is this, are there any professionals at all treating this derangement syndrome or not?

Because honestly, my friends on the left have completely lost their damn minds.

[DumplingDude]

Hmmn, and if this is the case the politics will mean little in their influence of policy and a effective solution. I've considered this thing to be more a rupture, possibly made worse by some techniques to fix it unless care is taken. I've kept my comments to myself as I am "no" er' engineer and it seems sometimes only the "smart" people in the room are aloud to discuss such....

I hope it is stoppable also. I am just passing along stuff I have heard on television. But if this is indeed between 2 plates as some scientists predict then imagine what a nuclear explosion designed to try and seal it could trigger.

I don't even want to think about it. Its devastating.

Just keep close ties to family and friends. I have a feeling our time here is shorter than we expected.

[Bobl]

We seem to be in the difficult position of relying on these people. How's that "deregulation" thing workin' for yah? [[nod!) [[wink!)

[ghettopalmetto]

Also, it would be a good idea for the local federal regulators to be doing their jobs and enforcing existing legislation instead of watching porn on government computers as was reported in the offices of the local federal agency overseeing BP operations.

The Constitution says the federal government has a duty to protect our shores; a job at which it is failing. Off topic but states can and do regulate some of their own mining and meatpacking. I have had cattle butchered at state licensed packing plant but never at a federal plant since the meat wasn't leaving the state. Having the federal government involved is sometimes helpful when products or pollution cross a state line and the only option when leaving the US. However, I can think of some altermative possibilities to reduce federal involvement in interstate commerce such as states requiring all packers to comply with certain agreed upon Underwriter Lab type standards. ....I don't see the federal government doing so good at enforcing it's own immigration laws at packing plants. Let's hope they are doing a little better monitoring the meat.

Instead, you should just agree that the Federal government should be more invoilved in cleaning up the oil now before a hurricane or the oil spreads all over the Atlantic.

And now we've come full circle to my previous statement: you can't gut the government and render it ineffective, then expect it to cleanup every mess your deregulated buddies make.

A little consistency, please.