Oil Containment Solution Randomizer

[ghettopalmetto]

I know there are a lot of geniuses on this forum, so excuse me if I'm stating common knowledge.

First, you can't just put booms on the water to corral oil IF 80% of the oil is BELOW the surface.

Second, our navy is used for national defense--not cleaning up private-sector fuckups.

Third, this well is still gushing oil. Cleaning up is the EASY part. Drill, baby, drill!

Fourth, I favor a free-market solution to this mess. BP can fix their well and clean everything up--or at the very least, reimburse the government every last dime to do so. If that means bankruptcy for BP, so be it.

Fifth--nice to see the latent environmentalists suddenly come out of the closet. Feeling a little Teddy Roosevelt of late, are we?

It's sickening how the people who blamed the victims of Hurricane Katrina for the rioting and chaos are suddenly shitting themselves because one of their corporate masters is correctly being charged to address a problem they caused.

Although, of course, if you could demonstrate where the U.S. government has the expertise and equipment needed to clean up a mess such as an exploded oil well in the ocean, then please do outline your proposal.

[oladub]

A nearly mile-deep caisson?! Fantasy.

Probably. On the other hand no more of a fantasy than Jack Kennedy saying Americans would be on the moon in ten years. Fabricating a long box or tube out of steel shouldn't be more difficult. I also suggested more rigs to relieve pressure and syphon away oil that would otherwise go into the gulf. During WWII, Liberty ships were being fabricated in 24 hours and B-17's were produced at the rate of one per hour. I don't see the same will to produce whatever necessary with respect to this well.

The veneer's worn conspicuously thin on this universal privatization scam....

You haven't been keeping up on the financial regulations the Democrats excreted last week. The way it ends bank bailouts is for the federal government to seize troubled banks, pay off the banks' debtors, and bill the taxpayers for that amount. Once again, privatize the profit while the public gets stuck with the debt.

You are correct though that the federal government caps the cost to oil and nuclear energy producers should they have mishaps. According to Republican administration laws which Obama and his Democrat Congress have chosen to leave in place, BP is not required to pay more than $75M for it's part in the mishap. Even Transocean made $5B in profits last year so $75M is chicken feed. I haven't seen any moves to amend that law either.

[ghettopalmetto]

Probably. On the other hand no more of a fantasy than Jack Kennedy saying Americans would be on the moon in ten years. Fabricating a long box or tube out of steel shouldn't be more difficult. I also suggested more rigs to relieve pressure and syphon away oil that would otherwise go into the gulf. During WWII, Liberty ships were being fabricated in 24 hours and B-17's were produced at the rate of one per hour. I don't see the same will to produce whatever necessary with respect to this well.

And once again, you demonstrate your disconnect with reality. If one were to construct a mile-long caisson, you would need to first construct a concrete batch plant--ON THE RIG. Or, find a crane with a boom that's over a mile long, but I don't think such a thing exists in the real world.

Second, concrete has negligible tensile capacity. How do you propose that a mile-long caisson resist the tensile forces applied by its own self-weight?

Shit, you're just guessing now, aren't you? But in fairness, that's not any worse than the six-figure-income engineers at BP are doing.

I say, if a company wants to engage in risky practices such as deep-sea oil drilling, they need to have written contingency plans in-place--approved by the regulatory body prior to permitting--to handle disasters such as this, among others. Socialization of private-sector losses is no remedy.

The irony is, if someone proposed a cap of $75 million in profits for BP, the Usual Gang of Right Wingers would be screaming bloody murder. I hope you're starting to see how the thin veneer of Reagan-Bush Deregulation has been putting our entire nation at risk of catastrophic collapse for the past 30 years.

[oladub]

gp, I am not an engineer but I am probably guilty of brainstorming. The conversation had been about whether BP or , and /or, the federal government should contain the spill. My larger point was that the federal government has been rather lame in it's approach and how, historically, when this country was faced with external threats the federal government has launched more energetic reactions to dealing with external threats than cover-ups and demagoging the issue. I wasn't even thinking of concrete. I read a book once on how caisons were constructed to did out the footings of the Golden Gate Bridge so I was thinking of steel but I am not such a naysayer to disgard the idea of even getting a batch plant, ot ten of them, out there quickly if that is what it took. If there are better alternatives, fine, go with that.The alternative is too horrible to fathom. As Sstashmoo pointed out, Howard Hughes had his Glomar Explorer that retrieved a Soviet submarine from 17,000 foot below sea level. We shouldn't let naysaying and lack of imagination get in the way. If I am guilty of hope and brainstorming; so be it. As I noted before, the Obama/Democrat regime has not chosen to remove Bush era liabilty caps from the oil and nuke industries.

Obama is acting like Bush did when Katrina hit New Orleans. Barry looks less and less like he could even run 7/11. He is certainly no Jack Kennedy, Jack promised to put Americans on the moon in ten years. Obama, by comparison, is effectively shutting down NASA and wringing his hands while the Gulf is being destroyed.

Quote: "Plug the damn hole," -Obama [[Why didn't BP think of that?)

[ghettopalmetto]

My larger point was that the federal government has been rather lame in it's approach and how, historically, when this country was faced with external threats the federal government has launched more energetic reactions to dealing with external threats than cover-ups and demagoging the issue.

BP has been making millions of dollars off this well. They have the money, the equipment, and the manpower to deal with this. The federal government does not. Remember that whole "risk" concept of which you Right Wing Profiteers are so fond? This is part of it. People are dead, the Gulf Coast is trashed, and all you can think about is finding a way to spin this to blame a president that you despise.

You do understand that responsibility and authority need to go hand-in-hand. If you want the government to clean up the mess, then don't piss and whine when they demand stricter regulations.

Obama is acting like Bush did when Katrina hit New Orleans. Barry looks less and less like he could even run 7/11.

You really don't have a grasp on reality, do you? Just more of the same blind partisan bullshit.

BRITISH PETROLEUM fucked up. It's their mess--NOT OURS. BP hasn't even ASKED the government for help. But you and the Socialize the Losses for our Corporate Masters crowd is on their knees to get the government to do SOMETHING that it is not capable of doing. What part of "the government is not engaged in deep sea oil well drilling" do you not understand? Please, as I asked above--propose what the federal government is supposed to do in this instance. I'm waiting to see an outline of your proposal.

This is a far different scenario than providing inadequate evacuation and federal aid to victims of a storm that we knew five days in advance was going to hit land.

[Stosh]

The only thing Oladub and others know how to do is criticize.
No solutions, just more BS libertarian/conservative theory.

They all are just a longer winded version of CC Batson.

I wonder if they are from Taiwan as well? What's the proxy?

[Stosh]

gp, What did Roosevelt do when Pearl Harbor was bombed? He helped mobilize the nation to address the problem at hand. Other things can wait. The reason Uncle Sam has to help fix BP's mess is because it is destroying at least a good part of the Gulf; it's fishing, tourism, ecology. Gov. Jindal has been complaining that Louisiana can't even get the booms it needs to protect its beaches and estuaries. The federal government can't even protect our shores from an invasion of oil in good weather. We have thousands of parked fishing boats which could be used to corral oil. We have a huge navy somewhere that could similarly be carrying out chores. We have unused industrial capacity that could be fabricating other rigs to relieve the pressure and other containment equipment. BP has had over 30 days and the leakage may be getting worse. If it is necessary to build a 5000 foot caisson, we better get going on this. Send BP the bill. The spill will only get bigger

Boy... Captain Obvious again huh? And if he did this shit, you would find fault with it, somehow, someway. I wish that you would make up your mind.

Is it big government you want? Or small?
Quit waffling. all this costs TAX DOLLARS!!! Right?

[ghettopalmetto]

Is it big government you want? Or small?
Quit waffling. all this costs TAX DOLLARS!!! Right?

I think oladub would be happier if President Obama flew to the Gulf in Marine One, put on a hardhat, and posed for photographs with the drill rig operators.

[Stosh]

I think oladub would be happier if President Obama flew to the Gulf in Marine One, put on a hardhat, and posed for photographs with the drill rig operators.

Better yet, with a big sign behind him, saying "Mission Accomplished"

And This!

Obama is acting like Bush did when Katrina hit New Orleans. Barry looks less and less like he could even run 7/11. He is certainly no Jack Kennedy, Jack promised to put Americans on the moon in ten years. Obama, by comparison, is effectively shutting down NASA and wringing his hands while the Gulf is being destroyed.

Jack Fucking Kennedy? Really? And how does that kind of money get appropriated? Through the House of d-bags and the Senut? Please. This is enough to make me ill.

[ghettopalmetto]

Better yet, with a big sign behind him, saying "Mission Accomplished"

Or, "Protecting America's Future", "Clear Seas" or some crazy anti-intuitive shit like that.

[Stosh]

Or, "Protecting America's Future", "Clear Seas" or some crazy anti-intuitive shit like that.

Maybe we can all pretend it's tea?

Or a banner "Bigger Governmnent Solves Bigger Problems"
Or maybe even "Rand Paul for Dogcatcher"

[ghettopalmetto]

Maybe some of our Free Marketeers can stop bitching about the government, and get their fishing boats out there in the Gulf to get some of that oil. After all, $3.00 a gallon to keep the Ford F-350 fueled for the trek to Walmart ain't cheap.

Or, collect enough spilled oil, and you could be the next John D. Rockefeller, fighting the government left-and-right in AntiTrust lawsuits to protect your billions that you rightfully earned through hard-work and sweat equity and, uh, "risk". You'd be an overnight redneck folk hero!

Yessir, that's some real American ingenuity. Just try not to throw your cigarette butts overboard.

[oladub]

gp wrote, "BP has been making millions of dollars off this well. They have the money, the equipment, and the manpower to deal with this. The federal government does not. Remember that whole "risk" concept of which you Right Wing Profiteers are so fond? This is part of it. People are dead, the Gulf Coast is trashed, and all you can think about is finding a way to spin this to blame a president that you despise.

You do understand that responsibility and authority need to go hand-in-hand. If you want the government to clean up the mess, then don't piss and whine when they demand stricter regulations.

BRITISH PETROLEUM fucked up. It's their mess--NOT OURS. BP hasn't even ASKED the government for help. But you and the Socialize the Losses for our Corporate Masters crowd is on their knees to get the government to do SOMETHING that it is not capable of doing. What part of "the government is not engaged in deep sea oil well drilling" do you not understand? Please, as I asked above--propose what the federal government is supposed to do in this instance. I'm waiting to see an outline of your proposal.

This is a far different scenario than providing inadequate evacuation and federal aid to victims of a storm that we knew five days in advance was going to hit land."

Did you ever read anything I wrote or are you having comprehension problems today?
Post 17, “ I agree with you that BP and other private concerns should pay for the cleanup.�� One question is if BP has the resources to deal with this. BP could always pay back the government and other private entities for help received.�
Post 21, “The reason Uncle Sam has to help fix BP's mess is because it is destroying at least a good part of the Gulf; it's fishing, tourism, ecology. Gov. Jindal has been complaining that Louisiana can't even get the booms it needs to protect its beaches and estuaries. The federal government can't even protect our shores from an invasion of oil in good weather. We have thousands of parked fishing boats which could be used to corral oil. We have a huge navy somewhere that could similarly be carrying out chores. We have unused industrial capacity that could be fabricating other rigs to relieve the pressure and other containment equipment. BP has had over 30 days and the leakage may be getting worse.��Send BP the bill.�
Post 29, “We shouldn't let naysaying and lack of imagination get in the way.�

Where in all that did I promote socializing the losses as you claim? I promoted the opposite had you read anything I wrote. BP has had over a month to fix this. It hasn't. You can't even come up with brainstorming ideas other than to suggest that we should punish BP by not offering BP help because they did it and so they should fix it no matter how long it takes and how much damage is done.

This is exactly like Katrina in the sense that help was late in coming and not all possible help was deployed.

Stosh lamely adds “The only thing Oladub and others know how to do is criticize.
No solutions, just more BS libertarian/conservative theory.�

Stosh, Maybe your pom poms are getting in the way of your monitor. Gp has even been criticizing my attempts at brainstorming. By the way, where on this thread is your list of possible solutions. Namecalling probably doesn't count. Your leader is going down in flames on this one. [[Bush III)

"The President of the United States could've come down here, he could've been involved with the families of these 11 people" "He could be commandeering tankers and making BP bring tankers in and clean this up. They could be deploying people to the coast right now. He could be with the Corps of Engineers and the Coast Guard...doing something about these regulations. These people are crying, they're begging for something down here, and it just looks like he's not involved in this."
"Man, you got to get down here and take control of this! Put somebody in charge of this thing and get this moving! We're about to die down here!"
-James Carville

[ghettopalmetto]

Did you ever read anything I wrote or are you having comprehension problems today?
Post 17, “ I agree with you that BP and other private concerns should pay for the cleanup.”” One question is if BP has the resources to deal with this. BP could always pay back the government and other private entities for help received.”
Post 21, “The reason Uncle Sam has to help fix BP's mess is because it is destroying at least a good part of the Gulf; it's fishing, tourism, ecology. Gov. Jindal has been complaining that Louisiana can't even get the booms it needs to protect its beaches and estuaries. The federal government can't even protect our shores from an invasion of oil in good weather. We have thousands of parked fishing boats which could be used to corral oil. We have a huge navy somewhere that could similarly be carrying out chores. We have unused industrial capacity that could be fabricating other rigs to relieve the pressure and other containment equipment. BP has had over 30 days and the leakage may be getting worse.””Send BP the bill.”
Post 29, “We shouldn't let naysaying and lack of imagination get in the way.”

Where in all that did I promote socializing the losses as you claim? I promoted the opposite had you read anything I wrote. BP has had over a month to fix this. It hasn't. You can't even come up with brainstorming ideas other than to suggest that we should punish BP by not offering BP help because they did it and so they should fix it no matter how long it takes and how much damage is done.

BP [[and their associates) created this problem. Let 'em use a little free-market ingenuity to figure out how to fix it.

If BP wants goverment help, I'm sure they'll go running to mama's tit. Again--the cleanup is the easy part.

And if Bobby Jindal knew how to do anything other than talk to the media, he might want to think about mobilizing the Louisiana National Guard. CORRECTION: My understanding is that the Louisiana National Guard has been deployed, constructing fortifications to protect the bayou. It irks me, however, that the people who rail against government the most, are the first ones to cry for help from the government when they need it. A government you undermine does not have the capability to help anyone. Then again, if we had paid attention to this line of reasoning, we might not have an oil spill on our hands in the first place.

[Papasito]

Again--the cleanup is the easy part

meanwhile, Kevin Costner's oil & water separating machines are still collecting dust

[DumplingDude]

Armagedden is upon us. They will not stop this spill. It will kill all the ocean life. It will work its way around the globe and into our fresh water.
It will kill already fragile economies.
Whilst you party hacks blame one another the world is slowly dying around us.Dismiss my warning as another crackpot if you like but just remember when you are living in a Mad Max world a year from now because of this, I warned you.

As for Ghettopalmetto, I seem to remember nothing but govermental as well as republican blame being tossed at Bush and Co. because of Katrina. He responded rather quickly whereas, Obama has taken 36 days to even address this INTERNATIONAL CATASTROPHE. Lets also not forget the recent natural disaster in Nashville and surrounding areas where entire cities were flooded,people were being rescued from rooftops, people were found dead, thousands of homes and business ruined and billions of untold billions in damage. Just as bad as Katrina yet, Obama has not even visited,I doubt even mentioned these areas and its been months. Its even ignored by the liberal media.

So you continue on with your blame games here folks while I stock up on fresh water and canned goods for the very near future.
Don't think because you have the great lakes they will not be affected. In fact, they will be taken over by the government and water will only be supplied to those deserving [[according to the gov of course).

[Islandman]

Got your bomb shelter fully stocked yet? I need the GPS coordinates.

[DumplingDude]

BP [[and their associates) created this problem. Let 'em use a little free-market ingenuity to figure out how to fix it.

So in other words as long as the Obama administration can steer clear and stay tidy in the eyes of the public[[with the obvious help of the liberal media for the first 30 days) it is ok to not address something as significant as a neverending oil spill that could end life on the earth as we know it?
That is to say as long as "he" did not create the problem of course.

Well damn! Why did'nt someone just tell Bush to ignore god's act upon New Orlean's like Obama ignored Nashville all together and is desperately trying to ignore this catastrophe.

We could have been spared all this bi-partisan bickering.

Silly me.

[DumplingDude]

meanwhile, Kevin Costner's oil & water separating machines are still collecting dust

\


Shame isn't it. Here is a guy who invested his life trying to help and he is being ignored.

To the guy who said that the clean-up is the easy part. I suggest you go to Alaska and ask those people that are still cleaning up after Exxon.
I'm sure they may not agree.

[rb336]

A government you undermine does not have the capability to help anyone. Then again, if we had paid attention to this line of reasoning, we might not have an oil spill on our hands in the first place.

very well stated.

the problem with those proposed barrier islands? do you know what happens when you force water to go through a smaller aperture? there is a fairly good chance that the barriers would make matters worse, as a more forceful flow of oil slick is funneled deeper into the wetlands

[ghettopalmetto]

I am simply amazed at our friends on the Right.

On one hand, you have a catastrophic problem caused by men. Men who are well-paid by their employer, who acted in a negligent manner. It has taken these career professionals five weeks [[and counting) to figure out how to stop the well from gushing. The federal government, which is not in the offshore oil-drilling business, does not have any sort of expertise in this technology. President BlackMan is supposed to swoop in like Superman and stick his finger in the well.

On the other hand, you have a huge naturally-occurring storm that everyone knows is coming, five days in advance, at that. People need to be moved out of harms way. They will need shelter and food. The government, which can mobilize hundreds of thousands of troops and associated equipment all around the world at the drop of a hat [[i.e. PRECISELY the kind of expertise needed in such a situation!) sits on its ass and does nothing. At one point, FEMA declined an offer from Amtrak to evacuate people from New Orleans.

Yeah, those are the same thing.

Now, I know our buddies on the Right are always concerned about their Corporate Masters being sued [[rightfully and otherwise). And I know they are concerned about the government's wallet even above their own. So it reasons that our buddies on the Right may want to think about their philosophy when they consider the legal liability to which the government exposes itself if it involves itself in the affairs of British Petroleum. You'd have citizens, states, and British Petroleum all taking the federal government to court, no doubt charging that because of intervention from the federal government [[which again, has NO expertise in offshore oil drilling), greater damages and expenses were incurred.

Think about that.

And think about why St. Ronald of Reagan can trust Exxon to clean up the Valdez mess, but it's Barack Obama's fault that BP executives were doing blow off the tit of an MMS intern.

[rb336]

first lesson in newspeak -- replace the negative word "wrong" with "Right"

[Flanders]

meanwhile, Kevin Costner's oil & water separating machines are still collecting dust

Incorrect, Costner's oil and water separating machines ARE being tested in the GOM right now as a matter of fact:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/kev...ry?id=10689928

[Flanders]

For those who do not want to politicize this catastrophe, the link below is to an excellent website to learn about what is really being done by the Bullshit Propagandists [[BP) to mitigate it:


http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6516

[DetroitDad]

Quote: "but posting about money when people and fish are dying was awkward."

"Economy" effects people. Unemployed, loss of income, suffering. When I said "economy" that's what I meant.

Quote: "finding comedy in tragedy bolsters the spirit. "

Oh really? Making jokes about an incident where many died and many will suffer for years to come is not my idea of comedic fodder.

Well you do not have the dark humor gene I guess.

Note that no one is making fun of the tragedy, but of the bumbling responses by British Petroleum, Transocean, and the U.S. Government. You really can look at that and laugh, look at the devastation and cry, and look at the locals taking matters into their own hands and feel inspired, all in one fall swoop.

Life is beautiful.

I'm also hoping this event wakes the Millennial generation. No more MTV Spring Break Miami or Cancun, or Girls Gone Wild in New Orleans. It's time to wake up and do what we have to do so that we can again do what we want to do.