Demo of Lafayette Building causes giant sink hole on Lafayette...

**One Shot** · May-21-10, 08:01 PM

Is that an old roofline on the wall of the Arcade bar?

If it is its cool to see something uncovered after so many years! I recall a bilboard on a wall of a building in Hazel Park that was uncovered when the adjacent building was taken down.

**mikefmich** · May-21-10, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPetanque

Coneydogs will be rationed!

Gotta love quick thinking photoshop folks.

**Huggybear** · May-22-10, 07:50 AM

Right. Because the entire downtown did not look like Pompeii with cement dust after Hudson's was brought down. And are you forgetting that the People Mover was knocked out for a very long time?

Originally Posted by bullridr31

The difference between the two companies both responsible for taking down buildings in Detroit, the company that was responsible for the Hudson's building was well aware of taking the building down in the most safe way possible, not only in terms of people, but also to the infrastructure of the city. In contrast, the demolition of the Lafayette building did not appear to have safety at the forefront of the project, and as a result, the company/city are paying for it.

**Huggybear** · May-22-10, 08:42 AM

Speaking of which, what is the status of the AAA building?

Originally Posted by Gistok

LOL... yes I am sure that with no witnesses, that the demo group did absolutely nothing wrong... the demo company should be guilt free... and the street is to blame for it's own failings.... just like the blow torches bringing down the Statler could not possibly be at fault for the roof fire on the AAA Building next door.... if there are no witnesses, it cannot be so!!

Courts will attest to this!!

**Danny** · May-22-10, 10:51 AM

Oh well that's Downtown Detroit. Lack of preventative maintenance equals destruction.

**Gistok** · May-22-10, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Speaking of which, what is the status of the AAA building?

Interestingly enough, the jury in that trial sided against the demo folks [[my bad... there WERE witnesses to the welding torch sparks causing the roof fire)... but refused to award damages [[gotta love the fickleness of juries in Detroit trials

).

The Court of Appeals and State Supreme Court refused to overturn the decision.

**Huggybear** · May-25-10, 10:59 PM

The status of the lawsuit wasn't the question. It was the building.

But while we are on the topic of the lawsuit, nice spin. In that case, the jury found no liability based on negligence [[because there was no proximate cause). If that happens, a jury doesn't even get to the question of paying damages. You try to make it sound like the jury found the contractors negligent and for some perverse reason did not award anything.

The court of appeals apparently determined that this fit into "the range of reasonable and principled outcomes." The court of appeals opinion, by the way, explains that the problem for the plaintiff was that the jury did not believe the very witnesses you mention below. This was a calculated risk that the plaintiff building owner took when he asked for a jury trial. It is very hard to overturn a jury verdict.

But the "rolling the dice" also shows up where there is mention of "case evaluation sanctions." From looking this up, I surmised that to be on the receiving end of these sanctions, there is something like a mock trial - at which point a panel puts a value on the case. If the plaintiff rejects and the defendant accepts, and the plaintiff fails to do better than that value at trial, the plaintiff pays the defendant's legal fees through the end of the trial - even if the plaintiff wins something. So for mention of those sanctions to be in the appeal decision, the plaintiff saw a number he didn't like [[or it was evaluated at nothing), and he decided to go for the brass ring. And ultimately had to pay both sides' legal fees.

But I digress [[it was an interesting exercise in googling...). Is this thing going to be fixed, be torn down, or be left to rot?

Originally Posted by Gistok

Interestingly enough, the jury in that trial sided against the demo folks [[my bad... there WERE witnesses to the welding torch sparks causing the roof fire)... but refused to award damages [[gotta love the fickleness of juries in Detroit trials

).

The Court of Appeals and State Supreme Court refused to overturn the decision.

**DetroitScooter** · May-26-10, 10:38 AM

Probably not enough to start another thread, but here is another triangular building that has somehow survived, and thrived, even:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/re...egion&emc=ura4

Insert Lafayette instead of the name of this building and see how you feel.

**rjlj** · May-26-10, 11:08 AM

How could this be DetroitScooter? How can people work in such a shaped and out of date building? I do not believe the article that you posted is ture. The iconic Flatiron should be torn down and turned into a "pocket park" despite it being valued at nearly $200 million.

**Fnemecek** · May-26-10, 05:49 PM

What fools those New Yorkers are? Don't they know that a park that the City doesn't have the resources to maintain is infinitely better than a redeveloped historic building?

Maybe we can send George Jackson and a few others from the DEGC on a humanitarian mission to proselytize to those poor, sad New Yorkers?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-26-10, 07:54 PM

Heavens, look at that photo! The Flatiron Building is blocking the view from one building to the other!

**Gistok** · May-28-10, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Speaking of which, what is the status of the AAA building?

Answer: I don't know... haven't asked. But 2 scenarios I don't see happening are...

1) the state or DEGC gives him a similar grant that are given to deep pocketed sports team owners for building demolition...

OR

2) the building gets put onto the National Trusts 11 Most Endangered Buildings List... and the city immediately does an early morning stealth backhoe demolition because the building was deemed to be in imminent danger of collapse...

He may have already mentioned to the DEGC [[what with them being flush with demo money)... if they want to have at it with his building... but this has not been verified...

I'll ask!

**gumby** · May-28-10, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

How could this be DetroitScooter? How can people work in such a shaped and out of date building? I do not believe the article that you posted is ture. The iconic Flatiron should be torn down and turned into a "pocket park" despite it being valued at nearly $200 million.

Sorry guys I loved the Lafayette building as much as the next guy but you cannot compare its situation with that of the Flatiron building. Detroit and New York are completly different beasts.

**Fnemecek** · May-28-10, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by gumby

Sorry guys I loved the Lafayette building as much as the next guy but you cannot compare its situation with that of the Flatiron building. Detroit and New York are completly different beasts.

You're right. Michigan has much stronger tax incentives for historic structures.

**Huggybear** · June-01-10, 09:51 PM

100% right. There is no comparison unless one lives in a world where one is so blinded by your passion for the Lafayette Building that no comparison seems over-the-top.

The Flatiron is an iconic, historical building that faces the Empire State Building. It's been in a lot of famous photos. The Lafayette Building was not iconic, and it faces [[and faced)... well, nothing. It didn't even make the book as far as Detroit structures went.

But if you want the real story, read in the Times about the rents the Flatiron commands. It gets $30 a foot, which is about 25% less than its surrounding market - but still three times what any Class-B office building in Detroit could command [[assuming, of course, that it's a functional building). Detroit rents don't support massive capital improvements, which is why most of the old office space is moldering.

And while we're on the subject, the Flatiron is worth about $200 million, which gives a lot to borrow against for improvements. The Lafayette did not sell, not even for a dollar.

And the Lafayette Building thing is not only water under the bridge [[street?), but I'm still waiting to hear from who here tried to buy it, tried to rent it, or had any financing lined up. Don't all jump in at once.

Originally Posted by gumby

Sorry guys I loved the Lafayette building as much as the next guy but you cannot compare its situation with that of the Flatiron building. Detroit and New York are completly different beasts.

**wolverine** · June-02-10, 12:26 AM

It's not a matter of building vs building. I'm sorry to say this, but it's in Detroit. You won't be selling $800,000 condos in that place to recoup construction costs. Still....you could have used the demo money to mothball it, hire a guard and hold out another 10 years. Something might come around.

I think it still had a useful life as an office building. It's no different than many other office layouts I've seen in vintage buildings, and businesses seem to make them work.

**iheartthed** · June-02-10, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

100% right. There is no comparison unless one lives in a world where one is so blinded by your passion for the Lafayette Building that no comparison seems over-the-top.

The Flatiron is an iconic, historical building that faces the Empire State Building. It's been in a lot of famous photos. The Lafayette Building was not iconic, and it faces [[and faced)... well, nothing. It didn't even make the book as far as Detroit structures went.

But if you want the real story, read in the Times about the rents the Flatiron commands. It gets $30 a foot, which is about 25% less than its surrounding market - but still three times what any Class-B office building in Detroit could command [[assuming, of course, that it's a functional building). Detroit rents don't support massive capital improvements, which is why most of the old office space is moldering.

And while we're on the subject, the Flatiron is worth about $200 million, which gives a lot to borrow against for improvements. The Lafayette did not sell, not even for a dollar.

And the Lafayette Building thing is not only water under the bridge [[street?), but I'm still waiting to hear from who here tried to buy it, tried to rent it, or had any financing lined up. Don't all jump in at once.

For all the rebuttal points that you listed, you still ignored why the comparison was made between the Flatiron Building and the Lafayette Building.

**gumby** · June-02-10, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

For all the rebuttal points that you listed, you still ignored why the comparison was made between the Flatiron Building and the Lafayette Building.

Because they are triangles?

**iheartthed** · June-02-10, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by gumby

Because they are triangles?

Yes. One of the talking points that was used to sell the demolition was that the shape of the building made it unattractive to potential tenants. The Flatiron Building is just one of many examples off buildings with similar, or even more irregular shapes, that have managed to remain viable.

Further, this "oh, but it's the <insert name> Building, it's an iconic structure" is such an intellectually lazy argument. Of course we all know that the Flatiron is an icon. Duh, why do you think it was even mentioned?! But the question is why is it an icon? And does Detroit's extreme throwaway culture prevent it from establishing its own iconic structures?