Over 15 New Retailers, Restaurants, Offices, & Bars Open on Lower Woodward Avenue

**esp1986** · May-25-10, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Although Detroit could use more of everything, I don't think bars will be the saving grace of the lower Woodward retail district. What we need is RETAIL. If there were stores open, people would shop there. Simple as that. No magical mystery here. If rents were affordable on those spaces, they would be filled, I guarantee. The problem is failed policies, slumlords and bad planning, not lack of demand for retail or lack of parking.

There are more parking spaces Downtown than there are people. If stores are worried about parking, they should advertise free validation at one of the million parking garages Downtown.

Not to mention, if retail was properly clustered on Woodward, people could park once and then walk around and shop.

Also, I disagree that bars in Midtown aren't within walking distance. Within a few blocks of Cass Cafe at Cass Ave/Forest Ave you can go to the Majestic, the Bronx, Motor City Brewery, Union Street, Starts Bar & Grill, Lefty's Lounge, Circa Saloon, 3rd Bar, among others. I don't think walkability is an issue, I think laziness is an issue. Residents of our region are chronically lazy.

The problem is, there is no anchor store to lure shoppers downtown. Regardless of how many stores that nobody's heard of go into the Kresge Building, they will not draw nearly enough people to stay open on their own.

Hudson's was profitable up until the day it closed, meaning that it was drawing enough shoppers down there to pay the bills, and in that enormous building, that is quite a feat. If Macy's were to open in the former Hudson's location, they would draw in shoppers, and many of the empty storefronts on Woodward would see tenants.

I do agree with you that bars are not the way to fill up the area. People are only going to drive so far to get drunk and drive home, and downtown probably is further than most want to drive. I have seen quite a few pictures lately of Woodward in the 40s and 50s, and it is packed full of people in front of Hudson's, even in a photo from 1980, there are alot of people at Hudson's around noon.

The problem is not many people are going to drive downtown to go to stores they have never heard of, when they have those a lot closer to home. People are going to come downtown because of the name, and a Macy's store would certainly bring a worthwhile name to downtown. Just look at malls. How many malls survive without an anchor store? Not many. Livonia mall, for example, started losing anchor stores in the late 90s early 2000s, and now the mall is gone. It is the anchor stores that draw people, and the rest of the stores will follow.

**stasu1213** · May-25-10, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

The problem is, there is no anchor store to lure shoppers downtown. Regardless of how many stores that nobody's heard of go into the Kresge Building, they will not draw nearly enough people to stay open on their own.

Hudson's was profitable up until the day it closed, meaning that it was drawing enough shoppers down there to pay the bills, and in that enormous building, that is quite a feat. If Macy's were to open in the former Hudson's location, they would draw in shoppers, and many of the empty storefronts on Woodward would see tenants.

I do agree with you that bars are not the way to fill up the area. People are only going to drive so far to get drunk and drive home, and downtown probably is further than most want to drive. I have seen quite a few pictures lately of Woodward in the 40s and 50s, and it is packed full of people in front of Hudson's, even in a photo from 1980, there are alot of people at Hudson's around noon.

The problem is not many people are going to drive downtown to go to stores they have never heard of, when they have those a lot closer to home. People are going to come downtown because of the name, and a Macy's store would certainly bring a worthwhile name to downtown. Just look at malls. How many malls survive without an anchor store? Not many. Livonia mall, for example, started losing anchor stores in the late 90s early 2000s, and now the mall is gone. It is the anchor stores that draw people, and the rest of the stores will follow.

Downtown Detroit could be thriving again if you have a dependable transit system that shoppers could rely on. Many people caught the bus downtown to do shopping during it's heyday. Detroit should copy what Birmingham has done; offer free 2 hour parking in the parking structures around the downtown area. You would get the major retailers back downtown. Have the retaliers invest in rent-a-cops to patrol the downtown area since the common council had given the green light that police officers could be hired out to business districts.

**detmsp** · May-25-10, 11:02 PM

Downtown needs more jobs to become a big shopping area. Why drive downtown to go to Macy's when there's one at the local mall? But if you're already there because you work downtown, it becomes an appealing choice. Hopefully this changes, but right now it doesn't seem like downtown is the employment center for the region the way it is in a lot of other cities.

**esp1986** · May-26-10, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

Downtown needs more jobs to become a big shopping area. Why drive downtown to go to Macy's when there's one at the local mall? But if you're already there because you work downtown, it becomes an appealing choice. Hopefully this changes, but right now it doesn't seem like downtown is the employment center for the region the way it is in a lot of other cities.

Well, there are a lot of jobs slated to be coming downtown within the coming months. Quicken with upwards of 4000 to Campus Martius [[a sizable percentage increase to the downtown workforce, 5-10%), 400 to the movie studio at Ford Field, 500 in the next few years at 1001 Woodward. So jobs are coming. Specifically with the Quicken move. That alone, will likely spur a little bit of development downtown, and possibly residential too. Time will tell though.

DetroitDad · May-27-10, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by detmsp

Downtown needs more jobs to become a big shopping area. Why drive downtown to go to Macy's when there's one at the local mall? But if you're already there because you work downtown, it becomes an appealing choice. Hopefully this changes, but right now it doesn't seem like downtown is the employment center for the region the way it is in a lot of other cities.

More so, even if there was enough potential customers Downtown. Why would Macy's anchor Downtown when they could pay much less and make more by anchoring suburban malls?

Anyway, this whole model is dead, retail is changing dramatically and soon it will be a question of why be an anchor or brick and mortar store when fuel prices skyrocket and/or you can just operate online.

**wolverine** · May-27-10, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Anyway, this whole model is dead, retail is changing dramatically and soon it will be a question of why be an anchor or brick and mortar store when fuel prices skyrocket and/or you can just operate online.

The model is only dead to you. The majority of the population prefers to do their shopping at a physical location. Yes, amazon.com has an edge, but its strong marketshare is limited to only a few sectors like electronics and media.

You being all pro-city, I would have thought had a different perspective. If you go to any urban area.... I mean, real urban areas you'll find businesses that wouldn't survive for even a week in the majority of Americas suburbs. Blockbuster for exmaple? I can't believe they opened two stores two years ago in my neighborhood and are doing just fine. Point is, people will be motivated to visit an actual store when it's close by to them because:

1. It's an experience
2. They get to try before they buy
3. They can have the product instantly

I've definitely been motivated to buy online at times because
1. Paying 11.5% sales tax for $1000 camera is out of the question
2. The product I want is not available in stores in my area.

DetroitDad · May-27-10, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

The model is only dead to you. The majority of the population prefers to do their shopping at a physical location. Yes, amazon.com has an edge, but its strong marketshare is limited to only a few sectors like electronics and media.

You being all pro-city, I would have thought had a different perspective. If you go to any urban area.... I mean, real urban areas you'll find businesses that wouldn't survive for even a week in the majority of Americas suburbs. Blockbuster for exmaple? I can't believe they opened two stores two years ago in my neighborhood and are doing just fine. Point is, people will be motivated to visit an actual store when it's close by to them because:

1. It's an experience
2. They get to try before they buy
3. They can have the product instantly

I've definitely been motivated to buy online at times because
1. Paying 11.5% sales tax for $1000 camera is out of the question
2. The product I want is not available in stores in my area.

"This whole model" meaning the old fashioned anchor in an urban sprawl mall or city center.

Do you have any idea what is going on right now? We're only about 25%-50% through this economic crisis... and that's being optimistic.

Big department stores are not going to save Detroit. I am an urban supporter, but I also try to be at least a little realistic.

**wolverine** · May-27-10, 11:54 PM

The enclosed shopping mall concept may be dead, but retail will evolve. It always has, even before department stores existed.

And since when do department stores save people? Well they saved the rest of my workday when I got grease on a work shirt from the subway..stopped by and got a new one, but I've never heard of anyone being saved by a department store so I'm not sure why you are sorry.

I still don't get your logic. I see new retail and department stores all the time. If I look out the window right by my computer here, I see a new 6 story department store that opened last year. Tell how this has "gone out the door"

DetroitDad · May-28-10, 12:08 AM

I'm guessing this might end up similar to the John R and Woodward improvements posted above.

Attachment 6208

**ASR89** · May-28-10, 01:01 AM

I had quite the nice day downtown yesterday. I live in Ypsilanti now and don't get over that way often anymore. Of course it varies by day and time, but over all, whoever says downtown is dead doesn't know what they're talking about. I had lunch in Greektown and it was bustling, and there were people all over the place. Then I walked down to the Riverwalk and there were tons of families, couples, workers, etc enjoying themselves. Campus Martius was pretty lively too.

That said, I wasn't too impressed by the Kresge Shops. Yesterday was the first time I checked the place out since it opened. All that was open was the cake shop and bar. The downstairs was closed off. It didn't seem well-lighted, but reasonably clean. I've been downtown many times, but it always saddens me to see the vacant storefronts on Woodward between Grand Circus Park and Campus Martius. There's Compuware, Kresge shops, a bonds place [[or insurance if I that's the place DetroitDad was talking about), a furniture store, Vain the night club and the bed & breakfast. Further up, I saw the coming soon BBQ place and the now open bar in the Fyfe Building. I'd love to see that stretch as busy as I saw Greektown. *sigh* Someday...

**p1acebo** · May-28-10, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by ljbad89

I had quite the nice day downtown yesterday. I live in Ypsilanti now and don't get over that way often anymore. Of course it varies by day and time, but over all, whoever says downtown is dead doesn't know what they're talking about. I had lunch in Greektown and it was bustling, and there were people all over the place. Then I walked down to the Riverwalk and there were tons of families, couples, workers, etc enjoying themselves. Campus Martius was pretty lively too.

That said, I wasn't too impressed by the Kresge Shops. Yesterday was the first time I checked the place out since it opened. All that was open was the cake shop and bar. The downstairs was closed off. It didn't seem well-lighted, but reasonably clean. I've been downtown many times, but it always saddens me to see the vacant storefronts on Woodward between Grand Circus Park and Campus Martius. There's Compuware, Kresge shops, a bonds place [[or insurance if I that's the place DetroitDad was talking about), a furniture store, Vain the night club and the bed & breakfast. Further up, I saw the coming soon BBQ place and the now open bar in the Fyfe Building. I'd love to see that stretch as busy as I saw Greektown. *sigh* Someday...

Ya I go by the Kresge Shops pretty much every day and the owner didn't do a good job with actual presentation of the interior and exterior.

**wolverine** · May-29-10, 02:29 PM

So nice of you to go back and edit your posts DD.

Do you have any idea what is going on right now?

Alot more than you. Facts, statistics, charts and graphs certainly help.

**Motown Madman** · May-30-10, 12:28 PM

This is definitely a success on Downtown's part, it seems like the Kresge building might be a success as well. Still, we don't know if any of these places will last, but regardless this is very good news and it seems like Detroit might just be making it's shopping comeback.

DetroitDad · May-30-10, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

So nice of you to go back and edit your posts DD.

Alot more than you. Facts, statistics, charts and graphs certainly help.

Whoa Wolverine, easy now. I got no problem with you. Maybe I'm completely, 100% wrong. I'll keep an open mind.

I actually agree with a lot of the things you are saying! This isn't even an either or argument!

**stasu1213** · May-31-10, 09:14 AM

The Kresge Place is turning out to be a farce. The retailers that were in the building had closed shop and moved to other locations. The complaints ranged from high rent and very low foot traffic inside the place. The owner does not relize that people are not going to shop at a place where it is dark, the smell of dampness, renovations are still being done, and the high harassment from panhandlers. I had heard that a bar will open in the former Borders location. That was a wrong move on Karmanos part by giving up that space to a bar. I had thought that a small retail store would had made a great fit there. The Gap, or Old Navy would had done good there. Customers could enter through the main lobby where he security guards sit. The opening of another bar in that location shows the desperation and lack of vision from eithter the owners or the city planners

DetroitDad · May-31-10, 07:47 PM

According to the owners who were rearranging chairs on their new patio in Campus Martius, the new cafe opens Wednesday, will be open only in the morning and during the day and for events "at first" and will feature some reasonably priced sandwiches, bagels, and other such things. Here's to hoping for smoothies.

Attachment 6270

**English** · June-01-10, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

The Kresge Place is turning out to be a farce. The retailers that were in the building had closed shop and moved to other locations. The complaints ranged from high rent and very low foot traffic inside the place. The owner does not relize that people are not going to shop at a place where it is dark, the smell of dampness, renovations are still being done, and the high harassment from panhandlers. I had heard that a bar will open in the former Borders location. That was a wrong move on Karmanos part by giving up that space to a bar. I had thought that a small retail store would had made a great fit there. The Gap, or Old Navy would had done good there. Customers could enter through the main lobby where he security guards sit. The opening of another bar in that location shows the desperation and lack of vision from eithter the owners or the city planners

Totally agree with you. I was so excited when the Borders opened there. My dream shop in that space would actually be an Apple Store...

[[Yeah, DYes, I know... that will happen when hell freezes over. It's up there with the Cheesecake Factory thing. Let me have my dream anyway. :P)

**English** · June-01-10, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

According to the owners who were rearranging chairs on their new patio in Campus Martius, the new cafe opens Wednesday, will be open only in the morning and during the day and for events "at first" and will feature some reasonably priced sandwiches, bagels, and other such things. Here's to hoping for smoothies.

Attachment 6270

Well, this is good news! Will definitely check it out...

**stasu1213** · June-02-10, 06:27 AM

The owner of the Kresge Mall had over extended himself in his business endeavors. He had used cheap labor to renovate the bullding using the most inexpensive interior design. I give him credit for having a vision for that building. Unfortunately, he is not willing to carry out that vision by spending the money for good labor and material. I hope the city planners don't let this guy purchse another building. I also think that the surrounding Shopping Centers such as Fairlane, Oakland Mall, Eastland, Somerset, and Northland, should have shuttle busses that are used strictly to carry shoppers from downtown detroit to each shopping center. Okea does it at times. The city and the surrounding shopping centers could split the cost. Many out of town visitors have to rent a car to drive to these malls or catch the city or smart bus to them. The express shuttle busses would take visitors as well as from downtown to these malls in minutes. Let's face it; Detroit isn't showing much interest in having retailers open shop downtown. The only businesses that had open are bars, resturants and the occasional third rate boutique

**ASR89** · June-02-10, 09:05 AM

Stasu, that's actually in the mass transit plan - express shuttle service between downtown Detroit, I believe the transit centre in Royal Oak, and a number of suburban malls. I remember that when I was looking through the slides, it was shown in the image of what the whole system will look like when it's done.

**Gsgeorge** · June-03-10, 12:01 PM

I stopped by Chez Zara, the new coffee shop in the Kresge shops, today with my gf... the owner Aaron was very, very hospitable and really made us feel comfortable. Great coffee & he let us sample some of the upcoming sandwich selections. It was really amazing to sit out on Woodward and enjoy the people watching & nice weather. I'm happy to see the new businesses along the Woodward corridor, and despite what people are saying about the Kresge Shops owner/operators, that really doesn't reflect the businesses inside. Chez Zara was a great place to grab a quick coffee and/or sandwich and enjoy the beauty of downtown Detroit.

bartock · June-04-10, 12:50 PM

Went to the new Bistro in Campus Martius today and had a Southwestern chicken sandwich. They just "fully" opened yesterday, I was told. The staff was overly friendly, as if this was only the second day the place was open. Hours are great [[relative to its lower Woodward locale, where everything seems to shut down on the weekends) - they are 7-7 M-F, 9-6 on Saturday, and 9-4 Sunday.

Oh, and the sandwich was good....better than average.

**p1acebo** · June-04-10, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Went to the new Bistro in Campus Martius today and had a Southwestern chicken sandwich. They just "fully" opened yesterday, I was told. The staff was overly friendly, as if this was only the second day the place was open. Hours are great [[relative to its lower Woodward locale, where everything seems to shut down on the weekends) - they are 7-7 M-F, 9-6 on Saturday, and 9-4 Sunday.

Oh, and the sandwich was good....better than average.

Had the same thing actually, they told me the grand opening is next thursday with live music and free tastes. A friend of mine is a waitress there and she has tried pretty much everything. The Southwestern chicken sandwich was very good.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-04-10, 02:47 PM

Did lunch at Wha-Who [[a new chinese restraunt in financal district) today at Congress and Shelby. Slightly higher than what I would expect to pay, but then again I'm cheap.

**Mackinaw** · June-04-10, 02:50 PM

Though there was a lot of big news about big names moving out or ceasing to operate in the last year, it seems that a lot of replacement businesses are taking their place in fairly rapid fashion. It seems to me that downtown is becoming more practical and functional. As far as restaurants and food go, it seems that that the supply of high priced stuff is dwindling but that doesn't mean there won't be plenty of options in the near future.

For the insiders: is rent on lower woodward finally coming down? That would also explain alot.

In the end this all bodes well for people that live and work downtown. I'll exchange high end destination-type venues for a more functional downtown.