Enforcing Immigration Law is "a violation of civil rights"

[gibran]

papa, danny and retroit is getting closer to the goals of many,,,,see there is common ground in this debate..so now let's geta workable law, and start helping transition these folks to full citizens and tax payers...

[barnesfoto]

"Let's go with the people who knock on the front door"

How about Let's streamline the process so that it doesn't take ten years of standing in line to after you knock. The problem with you guys who spend all your time posting half truths on the internet is that you pretend that there's nothing wrong with how difficult it is to get in. The process that delayed your father from getting in was part of the same BS. Your attitude seems to be one of revenge, e.g.
It was hard for my dad to get in so it should be hard for everyone to get in. Bullshit.

The pics of Ellis Island are nice. Those people got in because of racial quotas that were in place until the JFK administration. Ever notice how there's no brown folks in those pictures? Let's hear it for the good old days!

The LAPD police chief wouldn't have his job if he enforced immigration law.

The LAPD Police chief, William Bratton, fixed a very flawed police department. You may recall the LA Riots? Under his leadership, police-community relations thrived and crime dropped dramatically. I think that he knows a bit more about law enforcement than some old guys who spend all their time on the internet. I would ask you if you have any figures for whether your internet posts caused any drop in crime, but then you go on to say that "it's too late for LA" which further illustrate your status as an uninformed old guy hiding in a basement somewhere.
It is precisely cities like LA and New York, which are filled with immigrants from all over the world and from all over the US, that are thriving. I often feel a bit out of place here because of all the fresh faced twenty four year olds. The biggest problems here are probably the lack of affordable housing and the shameful numbers of homeless people, many of them suffering from mental illness. Oh, and traffic.

The financial problems of Los Angeles and CA are mainly the cause of the financial deregulations [[on a bill written by Republicans) that caused the housing bubble to burst, resulting in a loss in tax revenue. The budget issue also have their roots in a cap in property taxes [[prop 13, the brainchild of a Republican named Howard Jarvis) that has caused revenue problems for over 3 decades.
Neither the financial meltdown nor prop 13 were caused by illegal immigrants. Nor were the LA riots caused by illegal immigrants.

[oldredfordette]

Let's repeal NAFTA and see if things get better south of us, it's the cause of a whole lot of our problems. Then make it easier to stay, throw away the quotas and see what we got.

In the meantime, it's a racist law, evil as can be.

[jiminnm]

Well oldred, since you state that it is a racist law, could you please point out what in the law is racist? Have you even read the laew?

[firstandten]

I believe that the part of the law that upsets people is that the wording contains the phrase reasonable suspicion which bares a much lower burden of proof than probable cause which is in the fourthteeth amendment. Depending on the individual police officer, reasonable suspicion can be twisted to mean just about any and everything. Hence the feeling some have that it is a racist law.

[oladub]

barnesphoto, Some streamlining would help legal immigrants and some enforcement of existing immigration law would help reduce the number of illegal aliens. Again, you seem to propose that US immigration policy should be determined by foreigners who would like to benefit from our system instead of by our elected representatives. If foreigners want to come here, they need only apply. Our elected representative are charged with instituting a uniform system of naturalization. Our represetatives have to decide, among other things, how many people will live here. The census bureau claims that if we continue on our present track including illegal aliens, we will have a population of 520 million in 2050. I asked you before if that is what you want. If it isn't, then who can't come here and why? Remember that your premise is that who should come here should be determined by whomever wants to come here and that the role of our government is to streamline that process and provide whomever comes here with affordable housing.

I never said that by father was delayed in coming here. He had to have a financial sponsor. This quant federal requirement is a far cry from your advocacy of having US taxpayers sponsoring anyone who can sneak in and claim benefits. Times have changed. The Mongols could have left behind all their weapons had they the good luck to neighbor a country like ours. They could have just wandered across borders, found a job, and started receiving benefits from whomever they invaded. Life is good.

When was the last time LA ever voted Republican? When was the last time that Republicans even controlled California? Blaming a long out of power Party for the results of how Angelinos actually voted doesn't cut it. LA isn't thriving either. It's government is financially in the hole in large part because of the cost of hosting so many illegal aliens. New York's illegal 'immigrants', as you call them, included most of the 9/11 crews. LA is a sanctuary city so even though the Sheriff can't enforce federal immigration law, it could accept fleeing illegal aliens from Arizona. Imagine how LA would thrive then!

The good news is that the Arizona law is having some success although it hasn't even gone into effect. If the police do racial profiling, they will be sued but if someone is pulled over for an infraction without having a drivers's license, they are already in lots of trouble.

Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Arizona Law

Meanwhile, Texas, Utah, Georgia, Ohio, and Maryland are considering copying Arizona's law.

[Papasito]

Ever notice how there's no brown folks in those pictures? Let's hear it for the good old days!

wow, man. that is so friggen racist. do you have any clue the racist crap that Italians and Irish [[and many others) immigrants had to put up with? do you think they were accepted with open arms?
havent you heard the terms wop, guinnea, wetback, greaseball, ect ect ect? Italians were just one of the large immigration booms, and they were treated like dirt. they worked thier way into American society with hard work, most of them not knowing a lick of English, eagerly reaching out for that shovel that you claim was slavery. I'd take a shovel and a dream anyday over Mussolini.

Well oldred, since you state that it is a racist law, could you please point out what in the law is racist? Have you even read the law?

The misinformed who only listen to thier political party's talking points fail to realize that the Arizona bill is a declaration of enforcement of Federal law that already exists. If Arizona's bill is unconstitutional, than so is the Fed's.

[RaumVogel]

Quote: "Illegal Immigration will never change until we remove the demand for it. Jack the fines to companies hiring undocumenteds to $25,000 per worker for a first violation, double it for the second, and seize all company assets on the third."

then set up a real job bank within the welfare system, require that employers hire through that FIRST, and if they still can't find people, they can apply for temporary workers. the temp. workers would have to obtain a license BEFORE entering the country, the companies hiring them would pay a fee for each hired temporary worker - and be required to provide decent dormitories for them."

Now I know you're just F'ing around.. Nobody could actually mean any of that.

This is EXACTLY what needs to be done!There are way more people that agree with this than you think.

[agirlintheD]

Isn't the operative word "illegal"...if you're legal, then you have nothing to worry about [[or less to worry about). If I'm at the airport and my luggage/self is searched on suspicion,while it may be an inconvenience, if I have nothing smuggled in, then I have nothing to worry about. Better safe than sorry.

[oldredfordette]

Papasito, you're finally right! All these stupid old race-based immigration laws should be repealed, and we should become the shining beacon of freedom again! I knew it would happen! After all, they say a monkey on a typewriter could eventually write Romeo and Juliet. Eventually.

Honest to god, girlintheD, if I could order a strip search with indefinite detention for you, I would.

[Stosh]

If it were left up to me, I'd boost the penalties for EMPLOYING illegals to a seriously astounding sum. Then ratchet it up per instance. Or jail the employers too. Along with the fines.

Taking away the "opportunity" takes away the desire to BE here illegally.

[EMG]

Deputy shot near Stanfield found by Associated Press [[April 30th, 2010 @ 5:19pm) Policy >> Comments:31
PHOENIX - After a frantic hour-long desert search, authorities found a deputy wounded in a shootout Friday with suspected illegal immigrants apparently hauling bales of marijuana along a major smuggling corridor in southern Arizona.

The deputy was found with a superficial wound - a chunk of skin torn from just above his left kidney - after being shot with an AK-47 on Friday afternoon, Pinal County sheriff's Lt. Tamatha Villar said. He was flown by helicopter to a hospital in Casa Grande, about 40 miles south of Phoenix.

Villar said the deputy was doing smuggling interdiction work and found bales of marijuana in the desert. He then encountered five suspected illegal immigrants, two armed with rifles, and was shot.

``He was out on his routine daily patrol in the area when he encountered a load of marijuana out in the desert. He obviously confronted the individuals and took fire,'' Villar told The Associated Press. ``I was speaking with him just a bit ago, and he's doing fantastic.''

The deputy was alone about five miles from a rest stop along Interstate 8, about halfway between Phoenix and Tucson. The area is a well-known smuggling corridor for drugs and illegal immigrants headed from Mexico to Phoenix and the U.S. interior.

``Over the past 12 months we've seen an increase in the amount of drugs, and an increase in violence that has been going on in this particular corridor,'' Villar told KPNX.

``We've had increasing concerns in this area about being outmanned and outgunned, and unfortunately this evening, this is coming true,'' he said.

The shooting came as Arizona grapples with backlash over its enactment of a tough new law targeting illegal immigration. Civil rights activists, concerned the law will lead to racial profiling, have called for a boycott of the state.

The law signed by Gov. Jan Brewer last week is supported by many in the state, which has become a major gateway for drug smuggling and human trafficking from Mexico.

Its passage came amid increasing anger in Arizona about violence, drug smugglers, drop houses and other problems caused by poor border security.

Villar said the search for the suspects involved numerous helicopters from state and federal law enforcement agencies and scores of officers near Interstate 8 and Arizona 84 about 50 miles south of Phoenix.

``The deputy is a search-and-rescue deputy, so its not uncommon for them to work those areas A) looking for drugs and B) looking for people who need assistance out there,'' Villar said. ``Obviously its a high-traffic area for drug- and human-smuggling.''


Even if ridding our state and our country of these illegal criminal thugs has the consequence of offending a few liberal whiners [[or even a lot of liberal whiners), it's necessary and it's worth doing. And if the liberal whiners don't like it, as far as I'm concerned, they can get the hell out of my state and my country too. For every one that would boycott there will be a dozen more decent, conservative Americans willing to move in and take their place.

[barnesfoto]

If Americans would grow their own marijuana, perhaps "suspected illegals" would stop bringing it over! . And here's another boycott idea- When are you immigration fanatics going to start boycotting meat, poultry and produce processed by illegal immigrants and start growing your own produce and butchering your own meat? Or perhaps you thought that America's food supply came from the Keebler Elves?

When we see brigades of american conservorcrites out picking our fruit and vegetables and cutting up the chickens at Tyson plants, we'll know that you are really sincere! Of course, there was a time when the slaughterhouses employed American Citizens and paid union wages.

That went out the window with conserovocrite icon Ronald Reagan, who deregulated the meatpacking industry.

This is partly why the constant whining by conservocrites is especially ironic. One of their biggest heroes both created a glut of illegal immigrants by funding civil wars and death squads in Central America, and then created employment opportunities for the same people by deregulating the meat packing industry:


http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5140,1775358

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/He...usJob_FFN.html

As far as leaving the country, I've already pointed out that Mexico is a country with REAL conservative values. There's a conservative party running the country with a conservative president. The previous president was also a conservative, and before the PAN held the presidency, there were two Neo-Con Presidents, Zedillo and Salinas de Gotari, both of the PRI, which worked hand in hand with the Bush 1 to create NAFTA.

In Mexico, there's no welfare, abortion is illegal, the unions are weaker, and taxes are much lower. There's no justice for all, it's more of a market based system, and if you need police protection you gotta pay for it. No free rides! No Obamacare!
There's no ACLU.
There's much less whining.
There's even a drug war, kind like Ronald Reagan talked about, but with real dead people!


Why are so many Mexicans so desperate to leave such a place? Why are American Conservocrites not moving to such a Mecca of conservative values?

Finally, does the rest of the country know about Russell Pearce, who helped write this bill? If government is bloated, shouldn't we streamline immigration laws? If making fake
IDS is a crime, should Russell Pearce's son be deported?
Is being friends with a neo-nazi ok, since WW2 was so long ago?

Does Russell Pearce's support for George W. Bush cause any alarms to go off?
[[Please, be fair, and do not discuss Pearce's involvement with convicted criminal Jack Abramoff, that's so 2004!)

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiw...slator-russell

[oladub]

Well if Americans would grow their own marijuana, perhaps "suspected illegals" would stop bringing it over! . And here's another boycott idea- When are you immigration fanatics going to start boycotting meat, poultry and produce processed by illegal immigrants and start growing your own produce and butchering your own meat?

When we see brigades of american conservorcrites out picking our fruit and vegetables and cutting up the chickens at Tyson plants, we'll know that you are really sincere!

Illegal aliens do jobs Americans refuse to do for illegal alien wages. When are you aiders and abetters going to stop giving away American jobs? Meat packing was done by Americans until the meat packers destroyed the unions by bringing in cheaper foreign and often illegal alien workers. Americans will do construction work but hiring illegal aliens has its advantages for employers so we are watching those jobs going away too. I would gladly pay more for a head of lettuce if I knew no illegal aliens were involved. I would rather do that than pay taxes for extended unemployment payments for Americans and emergency medical and other social services for underpayed illegal aliens. Yes, good idea. Pay Americans $15/hour to pick lettuce and make up the difference in tax savings.

I do raise some of my own meat and it is supplemented with venison and turkey my son killed and butchered last year. We raise more vegetables than we can eat too. Maybe you are the one with stereotypes. The illegals could peacefully disappear tomorrow and I would have no reason to miss them. Hopefully, it would be after their cheating employers were incarcerated. Mark me down as sincere.

Why are so many Mexicans so desperate to leave such a place? Why are American Conservocrites not moving to such a Mecca of conservative values?

Some Americans, Conservative and otherwise, are. Of course entering Mexico without proper papers is a felony. Fred is an American guy who lives in Mexico and is married to a Mexican. He writes about moving to Mexico as an American. and of the rights of immigrants in Mexico.

Back more on thread: Gov. Rick Perry of Texas said that the Arizona law wasn't a good fit for Texas. Arizona has amended it's new law to make profiling more difficult.

[Red Devil]

Boo hoo for that poor deputy who was shot. If he was smart, he wouldve let these guys go and gotten himself onto the Sinaloa payroll, like many of our esteemed border patrol and local law enforcement officials.

[Whitehouse]

List of organisations, product and services now boycotting Arizona:

Cities who no longer support official travels to Arizona:
Minneapolis/St. Paul
West Hollywood.
San Fransisco.
Oakland.

State of Minnesota.
State of California. [[Still a proposal, but it's coming.)

Mexico. This migt sound ironic but there's also a tourist industry from that country. About 3.5 million Mexicans visit the state of Arizona.

American Immigration Lawyers Association. They cancelled an event scheduled for the JW Marriott hotel in Scottsdale. About 300 people would have come.

MLBA.Yes, the Major League Baseball is having a lot of trouble with this new law. I expect a lot of blowback if a major player is arrested for not having his legal papers with him.

Sofar nothing from the NFL although the season is about to start. Now you've got a state-of-the-art stadium in Phoenix, what will you do if fans are too scared to go to the games, in fear of being arrested?

Arizona has shot itself in the foot.

[Bobl]

This is a cry for help from Arizona.

Step One: Stop the bleeding. Come down like vultures on dead meat against Illegal Employers, making it expensive and dangerous to break the law by hiring and exploiting illegal immigrants.

Step Two: Pass a comprehensive immigration law. One that encourages legal immigration, without rewarding those who have broken the law. Let all who have come illegally leave, then apply legally. This country is a nation of immigrants. Let them come, work, and pay taxes, as my grandparents did.

[EMG]

Illegal aliens do jobs Americans refuse to do for illegal alien wages. When are you aiders and abetters going to stop giving away American jobs? Meat packing was done by Americans until the meat packers destroyed the unions by bringing in cheaper foreign and often illegal alien workers. Americans will do construction work but hiring illegal aliens has its advantages for employers so we are watching those jobs going away too. I would gladly pay more for a head of lettuce if I knew no illegal aliens were involved. I would rather do that than pay taxes for extended unemployment payments for Americans and emergency medical and other social services for underpayed illegal aliens. Yes, good idea. Pay Americans $15/hour to pick lettuce and make up the difference in tax savings.

Precisely. Unfortunately, a lot of the pro-illegal immigration liberals don't pay any taxes to begin with, so "making up the difference in tax savings" would be totally beyond their limited comprehension.

[Bullet]

Now that this law has passed, I expect there to be mass arrests and murder of millions of non-white people. That’s what I’ve been hearing, anyway…

[Sstashmoo]

rb wrote: "Illegal Immigration will never change until we remove the demand for it. Jack the fines to companies hiring undocumenteds to $25,000 per worker for a first violation, double it for the second, and seize all company assets on the third."

then set up a real job bank within the welfare system, require that employers hire through that FIRST, and if they still can't find people, they can apply for temporary workers. the temp. workers would have to obtain a license BEFORE entering the country, the companies hiring them would pay a fee for each hired temporary worker - and be required to provide decent dormitories for them."

I wrote: "Now I know you're just F'ing around.. Nobody could actually mean any of that."

You wrote: "This is EXACTLY what needs to be done!There are way more people that agree with this than you think."

Forcing businesses to hire from a pool? Taking people's businesses because an employee lied to them. Mandating that companies pay a fee and provide housing? This is off the charts cuckoo and right in line with rb's recent offerings.

[Red Devil]

LOL @ "punishing" businesses and corporations via fines. Who do you people think provides the funding for political campaigns?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Why are so many Mexicans so desperate to leave such a place?"

Why don't they stay there and fix it? That's what we Americans do. When the chips are down, like they are right now, we don't run to greener pastures. There is no mass exodus to Canada or anywhere else right now. We fix our own. If it's marching in the streets and demanding change, we get it fixed. One of the things that has made this country what it is or was anyway.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "worked hand in hand with the Bush 1 to create NAFTA."

It was enacted under Bill Clinton, a democrat. We got that shoved in our ass, it is a horrible policy from a trade standpoint, and now everybody claims someone else did it, even Hillary goes all stupid at the mere mention of it "All I remember is a bunch of charts". Nobody takes claim for it or praises it, and now Obama is in office, it's never even mentioned.

[Retroit]

Quote: "Why are so many Mexicans so desperate to leave such a place?"

Why don't they stay there and fix it? That's what we Americans do. When the chips are down, like they are right now, we don't run to greener pastures. There is no mass exodus to Canada or anywhere else right now. We fix our own. If it's marching in the streets and demanding change, we get it fixed. One of the things that has made this country what it is or was anyway.

Mexico is a socialist country. The state can do no wrong! [[sarcasm)

[EMG]

Now that this law has passed, I expect there to be mass arrests and murder of millions of non-white people. That’s what I’ve been hearing, anyway…

...then you've been listening to too many Al Sharpton-type liberal nuts. I know it's hard to find balanced reporting in the media these days, but the other side of the story is available if you know where to look for it. Here's today's article by Patrick Buchanan:

http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBu...up_for_arizona

Friday, April 30, 2010

Stand Up for Arizona
by Pat Buchanan

Major demonstrations are to be held in 70 cities on May 1 to protest the new Arizona law to cope with an army of half a million illegal aliens now living there.

Since Gov. Jan Brewer signed that law a week ago, Arizona has been subjected to savage attack as the modern embodiment of Jim Crow, apartheid and Nazism. Few have risen in her defense.

In San Francisco, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., moves are afoot to boycott Arizona and cancel conventions to break the state, as it was broken when Arizona declined to set aside a holiday for Martin Luther King.

Republican leaders like Jeb Bush, Karl Rove and even the rising Marco Rubio of Florida have declared themselves "troubled" or "concerned" and washed their hands of Arizona, which suggests they have not read the law -- or the party remains captive to country-club political correctness.

In a particularly offensive smear, Mexican President Felipe Calderon charged Arizona with opening the door "to intolerance, hate, discrimination and abuse in law enforcement."

And what was the reaction of the Great Apologist to this slander of an American state by the leader of a neighboring nation?


None. One wonders if Barack Obama will ever stand up to foreign leaders' abusing the nation that awarded him its highest honor. Or has he been marinated since birth in the "Blame America First" mindset of the San Francisco Democrats who sneer at the real America?

As columnist Michelle Malkin writes, there is no shortage of ammunition our president could have used to fire back at the hypocrites of Mexico City.

For where Arizona has made it a misdemeanor to be in the country illegally, in Calderon's country it is a felony that can get you years in prison. Where illegal aliens in America regularly protest under Mexican flags, no foreign resident of Mexico may demonstrate against the regime.

Where immigration is changing the ethnic balance of this country, in Mexico immigrants are not allowed in who could upset "the equilibrium of the national demographics." Where Americans demand we treat illegal aliens firmly but fairly, Guatemalans caught in Mexico are often treated with a brutality bordering on sadism.

We really do not need any lectures on morality or human rights from Mexico. But what is the matter with our leader that he will not defend his country?

As for the supposedly neo-Nazi Arizona law, what does it really say and do?

First, it brings Arizona law into conformity with federal law. As it has long been a federal crime to be in the country illegally, it is now a crime in Arizona.

Second, just as U.S. law since 1940 has required legal aliens -- immigrants and guest workers -- to carry their green cards or work visas at all times, Arizona law now says the same thing.

Is there something inhumane about this? If so, where have the protests been these last 70 years? Many of us in the 1950s had to carry not only driver's licenses, but draft cards.

No U.S. citizen in Arizona, however, has to carry an identity card. As for racial profiling, the new law forbids it. A police officer, it reads, "may not solely consider race, color or national origin" in stopping anyone or in determining an immigrant's status.

Before there can be a "reasonable suspicion" an individual is here illegally, there must first be a "lawful contact." This means no cop can halt and challenge a man on the street, or sitting in a restaurant or bar, or driving a car.

If an individual is caught running a traffic light, the police must first ask for his license. Only if the individual lacks a valid ID or driver's license, or his behavior causes "reasonable suspicion" he is an illegal, can he be brought in. Then, a call must be made to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement [[ICE) to determine his status.

Where is the neo-Nazism here?

Is this too much to ask on behalf of the police in a state whose first city, Phoenix, in the words of Kris Kobach, co-author of the new law, has become the "kidnapping capital of North America and the hub of human smuggling into the United States"?

When one looks closely at what the Arizona law says, the hysteria it has generated seems so excessive one wonders if it is fear the Arizona law will work -- as well as hatred -- that is behind the over-the-top reaction.

Whatever the motivation of the left, defense of this law by conservatives is imperative. For without tools like this, the Southwestern states cannot stop the invasion from Mexico -- given the U.S. government's dereliction of its duty to defend America's borders.

Conservatives must stand up for Arizona. And this is winnable. For by backing away from "immigration reform," both Harry Reid and Obama are admitting, de facto, that America is with us, not with them.