Enforcing Immigration Law is "a violation of civil rights"

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Close the borders whenever unemployment's high and open them when there's a need for cheap labor? It's no longer "give me your tired, your poor" but "people are nothing but commodities"?"

That's been the case. Early 20th century, we needed folks to build factories and railroads, there was no problem getting citizenship.

[Diehard]

Quote: "Close the borders whenever unemployment's high and open them when there's a need for cheap labor? It's no longer "give me your tired, your poor" but "people are nothing but commodities"?"

That's been the case. Early 20th century, we needed folks to build factories and railroads, there was no problem getting citizenship.

Yes. Immigration used to be easy. That's the point. Now it's so hard that people are climbing fences and risking their lives to try to get here, and you're cool with that. Apparently you would've been cool with shipping those early immigrants back to where they came from after the railroads were built, in the interest of reserving jobs for "real Americans". But of course, that didn't happen. They stayed - even through the Great Depression! Horror! They settled in, had families and became part of the American fabric. Tragedy. What an affront to "real" Americans.

[Diehard]

Sure, our immigration laws kinda stink, but can we look at another country's complicated laws and say "well those laws are too complicated, so they should just pardon everyone who broke them, and then reward them with the end result of why they broke the law in the first place" .... and it be fair and just? That's basically what the amnesty crowd is wanting us to do.

No, you fix the laws, while recognizing that it's impractical and impossible to round up and send away 11 million people, most of whom aren't doing anything illegal other than being here. Believe it or not, it's in the nation's best interest to bring them out of the shadows and onto the books. If you call that "rewarding lawbreakers," so be it, but it's a better solution than "round 'em all up and ship 'em all out!"

[Jimaz]

Racist roots of Arizona law

[oladub]

"due to immigration, actual U.S. population growth has been on the high trendline for three decades and is now above the highest trendline" This includes both legal and illegal immigration. This is good for road builders and developers. We will need to be massively expanding construction and infrastructure sprawl to accomodate this ongoing policy.

[EMG]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36716


Whose Country Is This?
by Patrick J. Buchanan
04/27/2010


With the support of 70 percent of its citizens, Arizona has ordered sheriffs and police to secure the border and remove illegal aliens, half a million of whom now reside there.

Arizona acted because the U.S. government has abdicated its constitutional duty to protect the states from invasion and refuses to enforce America's immigration laws.

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," said Gov. Jan Brewer. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created an unacceptable situation."

We have a crisis in Arizona because we have a failed state in Washington.

What is the response of Barack Obama, who took an oath to see to it that federal laws are faithfully executed?

He is siding with the law-breakers. He is pandering to the ethnic lobbies. He is not berating a Mexican regime that aids and abets this invasion of the country of which he is commander in chief. Instead, he attacks the government of Arizona for trying to fill a gaping hole in law enforcement left by his own dereliction of duty.

He has denounced Arizona as "misguided." He has called on the Justice Department to ensure that Arizona's sheriffs and police do not violate anyone's civil rights. But he has said nothing about the rights of the people of Arizona who must deal with the costs of having hundreds of thousands of lawbreakers in their midst.

How's that for Andrew Jackson-style leadership?

Obama has done everything but his duty to enforce the law.

Undeniably, making it a state as well as a federal crime to be in this country illegally, and requiring police to check the immigration status of anyone they have a "reasonable suspicion" is here illegally, is tough and burdensome. But what choice did Arizona have?

The state has a fiscal crisis caused in part by the burden of providing schooling and social welfare for illegals and their families, who consume far more in services than they pay in taxes and who continue to pour in. Even John McCain is now calling for 3,000 troops on the border.

Police officers and a prominent rancher have been murdered. There have been kidnappings believed to be tied to the Mexican drug cartels. There are nightly high-speed chases through the barrios where innocent people are constantly at risk.

If Arizona does not get control of the border and stop the invasion, U.S. citizens will stop coming to Arizona and will begin to depart, as they are already fleeing California.

What we are talking about here is the Balkanization and breakup of a nation into ethnic enclaves. A country that cannot control its borders isn't really a country anymore, Ronald Reagan reminded us.

The tasks that Arizonans are themselves undertaking are ones that belong by right, the Constitution and federal law to the Border Patrol, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Homeland Security.

Arizona has been compelled to assume the feds' role because the feds won't do their job. And for that dereliction of duty the buck stops on the desk of the president of the United States.

Why is Obama paralyzed? Why does he not enforce the law, even if he dislikes it, by punishing the businessmen who hire illegals and by sending the 12 million to 20 million illegals back home? President Eisenhower did it. Why won't he?

Because he is politically correct. Because he owes a big debt to the Hispanic lobby that helped deliver two-thirds of that vote in 2008. Though most citizens of Hispanic descent in Arizona want the border protected and the laws enforced, the Hispanic lobby demands that the law be changed.

Fair enough. But the nation rose up as one to reject the "path-to-citizenship" -- i.e., amnesty -- that the 2007 plan of George W. Bush, McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama envisioned.

Al Sharpton threatens to go to Phoenix and march in the streets against the new Arizona law. Let him go.

Let us see how many African-Americans, who are today frozen out of the 8 million jobs held by illegal aliens that might otherwise go to them or their children, will march to defend an invasion for which they are themselves paying the heaviest price.

Last year, while Americans were losing a net of 5 million jobs, the U.S. government -- Bush and Obama both -- issued 1,131,000 green cards to legal immigrants to come and take the jobs that did open up, a flood of immigrants equaled in only four other years in our history.

What are we doing to our own people?

Whose country is this, anyway?

America today has an establishment that, because it does not like the immigration laws, countenances and condones wholesale violation of those laws.

Nevertheless, under those laws, the U.S. government is obligated to deport illegal aliens and punish businesses that knowingly hire them.

This is not an option. It is an obligation.

Can anyone say Barack Obama is meeting that obligation?

[gibran]

ummm...when did teh alien space shiop land? missed that...and in reality it was easier to get citizenship 100 years ago if you came from Europe...and noty if you were brown...

[Jimaz]

Boycott Arizona and the Diamondbacks: Scarborough calls AZ immigration law "Un-American"

If some prominent Republican like one of the George Bushes or Jeb Bush doesn't speak out soon and bring the party back to its senses on this politically, they will confine themselves to minority status for many years.

[douglasm]

There is one basic issue that has been ignored in the argument over the law. If you are an American citizen and are stopped under this law, there is no way to prove your citizenship. So in theory a native born or naturalized citizen could be arrested and jailed under this law for not being able to prove he/she/it is legal. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Until we have some sort of national identity card issued to every person in this country, this law might just as well be titled "The Lawyers Full Employment Act of 2010".

[Diehard]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36716


Whose Country Is This?
by Patrick J. Buchanan
04/27/2010


With the support of 70 percent of its citizens, Arizona has ordered sheriffs and police to secure the border and remove illegal aliens, half a million of whom now reside there.

Arizona acted because the U.S. government has abdicated its constitutional duty to protect the states from invasion and refuses to enforce America's immigration laws.

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," said Gov. Jan Brewer. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created an unacceptable situation."

We have a crisis in Arizona because we have a failed state in Washington.

What is the response of Barack Obama, who took an oath to see to it that federal laws are faithfully executed?

He is siding with the law-breakers. He is pandering to the ethnic lobbies. He is not berating a Mexican regime that aids and abets this invasion of the country of which he is commander in chief. Instead, he attacks the government of Arizona for trying to fill a gaping hole in law enforcement left by his own dereliction of duty.

He has denounced Arizona as "misguided." He has called on the Justice Department to ensure that Arizona's sheriffs and police do not violate anyone's civil rights. But he has said nothing about the rights of the people of Arizona who must deal with the costs of having hundreds of thousands of lawbreakers in their midst.

How's that for Andrew Jackson-style leadership?

Obama has done everything but his duty to enforce the law.

Undeniably, making it a state as well as a federal crime to be in this country illegally, and requiring police to check the immigration status of anyone they have a "reasonable suspicion" is here illegally, is tough and burdensome. But what choice did Arizona have?

The state has a fiscal crisis caused in part by the burden of providing schooling and social welfare for illegals and their families, who consume far more in services than they pay in taxes and who continue to pour in. Even John McCain is now calling for 3,000 troops on the border.

Police officers and a prominent rancher have been murdered. There have been kidnappings believed to be tied to the Mexican drug cartels. There are nightly high-speed chases through the barrios where innocent people are constantly at risk.

If Arizona does not get control of the border and stop the invasion, U.S. citizens will stop coming to Arizona and will begin to depart, as they are already fleeing California.

What we are talking about here is the Balkanization and breakup of a nation into ethnic enclaves. A country that cannot control its borders isn't really a country anymore, Ronald Reagan reminded us.

The tasks that Arizonans are themselves undertaking are ones that belong by right, the Constitution and federal law to the Border Patrol, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Homeland Security.

Arizona has been compelled to assume the feds' role because the feds won't do their job. And for that dereliction of duty the buck stops on the desk of the president of the United States.

Why is Obama paralyzed? Why does he not enforce the law, even if he dislikes it, by punishing the businessmen who hire illegals and by sending the 12 million to 20 million illegals back home? President Eisenhower did it. Why won't he?

Because he is politically correct. Because he owes a big debt to the Hispanic lobby that helped deliver two-thirds of that vote in 2008. Though most citizens of Hispanic descent in Arizona want the border protected and the laws enforced, the Hispanic lobby demands that the law be changed.

Fair enough. But the nation rose up as one to reject the "path-to-citizenship" -- i.e., amnesty -- that the 2007 plan of George W. Bush, McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama envisioned.

Al Sharpton threatens to go to Phoenix and march in the streets against the new Arizona law. Let him go.

Let us see how many African-Americans, who are today frozen out of the 8 million jobs held by illegal aliens that might otherwise go to them or their children, will march to defend an invasion for which they are themselves paying the heaviest price.

Last year, while Americans were losing a net of 5 million jobs, the U.S. government -- Bush and Obama both -- issued 1,131,000 green cards to legal immigrants to come and take the jobs that did open up, a flood of immigrants equaled in only four other years in our history.

What are we doing to our own people?

Whose country is this, anyway?

America today has an establishment that, because it does not like the immigration laws, countenances and condones wholesale violation of those laws.

Nevertheless, under those laws, the U.S. government is obligated to deport illegal aliens and punish businesses that knowingly hire them.

This is not an option. It is an obligation.

Can anyone say Barack Obama is meeting that obligation?

Awww, Pat Buchanan. Is he still around? That's adorable. Next.

[oladub]

In other news from Arizona:

"Arizona lawmakers expressing doubt over whether President Barack Obama was born in the United States are pushing a bill through the Legislature that would require the president to show his birth certificate to get on the state’s 2012 ballot.
The House passed the measure Wednesday on a 31-29 vote." -4/22/10

http://www.benningtonbanner.com/ci_1...e=most_emailed

[Diehard]

^^^That's just stupid. And it might offer some insight into the kind of people we're talking about.

[Diehard]

anyone who gets pulled over should provide the proper paperwork reguardless of what color you are.

Yes. But this law apparently allows - no, requires - police to do that to anyone. Not driving, not committing a crime, just walking down the street.

at near 10% unemployment, there has to be someone who wants to work.
and if we have to pay a little more for lettuce and tomatoes, so be it.

It's probably going to be a LOT more for lettuce and tomatoes. I don't mind, but our fragile economy might.

Arizona should really be getting praised for doing what the Fed can't [[or won't) do.

Not to defend the federal level's abject failure on the issue, but Arizona's doing it stupidly.

Politicians see people in blocks of color. Pander to the NAACP, get the black vote. Pander to Latino groups, get the Latino vote, ect. ect.

Yeah, I think you're probably right on that.

What politicians DONT realize is that they are slapping legal immigrants in the face by giving illegals a pass. Why go through all the trouble of immigrating legally when you could just come in illegally then pull the victim card and demand your citizenship?

OK, right-wing talking point parrot, give ONE example of someone who "came here illegally, pulled the victim card and demanded their citizenship" and got it. That's a load of crap, just like saying all immigrants are criminals and welfare queens, because Uncle Bubba said so.

I totally agree. Citizenship/Immigration needs to be attainable and it needs to be fair.
The system needs fixing.

But, according to you, all an illegal needs to do is pull the victim card and demand their citizenship, right?

[oladub]

^^^That's just stupid. And it might offer some insight into the kind of people we're talking about.

We couldn't admit our kids into the local school system without providing copies of their original birth certificates and there was no original birth certificate in the case of our youngest child. We had to track down the OB who had since moved to California and do a bunch of paperwork to straighten that out. My wife even had to sign a statement that she was present at our child's birth. Anyway, he couldn't be enrolled in 1st grade without proper credentials. Postal workers have to provide original birth certificates to be hired. I would assume that FBI and some other federal employees would have to be screened even further. So it is quite reasonable for states to require candidates for office, in general elections, to meet the same requirement to be on the ballot. States have long held the right to establish their own criteria for getting on ballots. Ask any third party candidate who has to get onto 50 ballots with 50 different sets of requirements.

Anyway, a Hawaiian official has stated that the original copy of Sen. Obama's birth certificate does indeed exist in his files so there is nothing to worry about unless the official lied. Obama's campaign would just have to sent in the required $12-15, or whatever it is for a copy, and that requirement would be met.

Similarly, since Arizona requires proof of citizenship before issuing driver's licenses, an officer pulling someone over for infraction would just need to see a valid driver's license to dispel all concerns about citizen status. If the driver doesn't have a valid driver's license, he is already in trouble with or without the new law.

[Zacha341]

Well stated. I have friends that live in that area and the crime issue related to illegals is real, withstanding the details of the this new law. I think alot of this is based on perspective, but these easy route is Sharpton's comments. Every illegal immigrant is not here for "noble" reasons or agenda [[even within their communities they are victims of crimes from illegal felons)... yet the new law may effect innocent citizens and those who refuse to become citizens.

In any event I don't think president Obama has the grit to really stay the course to deal with the illegal immigrant issue effectively or objectively... that response feels tooo "Bushy", patriotic and conservative for him to do so, thus he will probably cave -- they've already threatened to pull their support [[get that irony) what other group [[who are NOT even citizens) has that hoots-spa!! Got to love America, not other place has all these contradications! LOL! I guess all Arizonan's are right wingers now... yeah that solves it in terms of summing up those who want this law.

...except for 1 minor difference.... the majority of immigrants of previous generations came in legally

Al Sharpton [[the race baiter) equating illegal immigrants to black America's past is a downright insult to African Americans. The illegal immigrants made a voluntary decision to illegally enter the United States,
they were not brought into this country bound in chains against thier will.

[Zacha341]

Good points... and it take living in that area or nearby states to see what a problem it is...

Illegal Immigration will never change until we remove the demand for it. Jack the fines to companies hiring undocumenteds to $25,000 per worker for a first violation, double it for the second, and seize all company assets on the third.

then set up a real job bank within the welfare system, require that employers hire through that FIRST, and if they still can't find people, they can apply for temporary workers. the temp. workers would have to obtain a license BEFORE entering the country, the companies hiring them would pay a fee for each hired temporary worker - and be required to provide decent dormitories for them.

[Papasito]

Yes. But this law apparently allows - no, requires - police to do that to anyone. Not driving, not committing a crime, just walking down the street.

That's not true. That is only what opponants are saying when they have thier 30 seconds of fame on mainstream media

OK, right-wing talking point parrot

What politicians DONT realize is that they are slapping legal immigrants in the face by giving illegals a pass.

After all the trouble my family went through for us to come here legally, I don't think you can qualify me as a "parrot".

"When I heard about it, it reminded me of Nazi Germany"..

.
- Lillian RodrÃ[guez López, president of the Hispanic Federation

http://mysorebutt.com/immigration-law.php
http://vivirlatino.com/2006/06/02/me...pocritical.php

Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

• in the country legally;
• have the means to sustain themselves economically;
• not destined to be burdens on society;
• of economic and social benefit to society;
• of good character and have no criminal records; and
• contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

The law also ensures that:

• immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
• foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
• foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country's internal politics;
• foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
• foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
• those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration
Mexico
In the first six months of 2005 alone, more than 120,000 people from Central America have been deported to their countries of origin. This is a significantly higher rate than in 2002, when for the entire year, only 130,000 people were deported.
.....
In October 2008, Mexico tightened its immigration rules and agreed to deport Cubans using the country as an entry point to the US. It also criticized U.S. policy that generally allows Cubans who reach U.S. territory to stay.
......
Many women from Eastern Europe, Asia, and Central and South America are also offered jobs at table dance establishments in large cities throughout the country causing the National Institute of Migration [[INM) in Mexico to raid strip clubs and deport foreigners who work without the proper documentation [17]. In 2004, the INM deported 188,000 people at a cost of $10 million [18]. Illegal immigration of Cubans through Cancún tripled from 2004 to 2006.

WOW! When I heard about Mexico's Immigration Policy,
".......it reminded me of Nazi Germany"
When you go to Mexico, you even have to have Papers on you to prove you're in the county legally!! Oh the travesty!!! Such oppression and racism!!!
Mexico seems to be wallowing in "Do As I say, Not As I Do" hypocrisy when it comes to immigration laws.

[Detroitej72]

Why are the radical birther's chiming in on this thread?

Anyone notice last election the right wing made an issue about Obama's place of birth,[[which is really a right wing myth) while their candidate was the one who was born abroad. It's the exact same stunt they pulled in 04, painting Kerry[[a war hero) as a coward and Bush,[[with no war record to speak of, he couldn't even account for all his National Guard service) as a tough commander in chief.

One thing you can say for certain, the right wing has top spin doctors on their payroll.

[firstandten]

We couldn't admit our kids into the local school system without providing copies of their original birth certificates and there was no original birth certificate in the case of our youngest child. We had to track down the OB who had since moved to California and do a bunch of paperwork to straighten that out. My wife even had to sign a statement that she was present at our child's birth. Anyway, he couldn't be enrolled in 1st grade without proper credentials. Postal workers have to provide original birth certificates to be hired. I would assume that FBI and some other federal employees would have to be screened even further. So it is quite reasonable for states to require candidates for office, in general elections, to meet the same requirement to be on the ballot. States have long held the right to establish their own criteria for getting on ballots. Ask any third party candidate who has to get onto 50 ballots with 50 different sets of requirements..

There is some question if this law is even constitutional. There may be a question if creating state-level eligibility for federal office violates the US Constitution. Besides if both candidates refuses to provide such documentation where does that leave Arizona voters.? A bunch of third party candidates and essentially no say in who becomes the next president. Just because a political body can do something like pass a BS law such as this doesn't mean that they should. All of points you make are valid and the states should be responsible, but this is just a blatant attempt to single out president Obama. If it wasn't then why wasn't this talked about before now.

Thats the problem with stuff like tea parties and birther bills... the timing. Also people insulting folks about the real motivation for all of this. Just come out and say I don't want the black man [[ I use the one drop rule) in the white house

Anyway, a Hawaiian official has stated that the original copy of Sen. Obama's birth certificate does indeed exist in his files so there is nothing to worry about unless the official lied. Obama's campaign would just have to sent in the required $12-15, or whatever it is for a copy, and that requirement would be met.

.

Lets call it for what it is. Instead of frivolous lawsuits we now have frivolous legislation from a group of Arizona birthers that will make there state a laughing stock knowing that much like the immigration law the birther law will get struck down on appeal. But in the meantime they are playing to the base instead of creating laws to make Arizona better.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "this is just a blatant attempt to single out president Obama. If it wasn't then why wasn't this talked about before now."

Huh? It was going long before the election as well. I could care less where he was born. The fact stands, Obama is a horrible President. Just a mouth piece for lobbyists. The healthcare scam, the reluctance to address trade, the reluctance to pass anything that would create jobs, the faux outrage with Iran, accelerating the ghost chase in Afghanistan and Iraq while our economy crumbles. He is just more of the same.

I used to think it was part of some big dark sinister plan, not anymore. There is no plan, no "for the people", "of the people", "by the people". It's full speed ahead and the pilot house is empty, some are ripping off what they can before it plows in to something.

[firstandten]

Quote: "this is just a blatant attempt to single out president Obama. If it wasn't then why wasn't this talked about before now."

Huh? It was going long before the election as well. I could care less where he was born. The fact stands, Obama is a horrible President. Just a mouth piece for lobbyists. The healthcare scam, the reluctance to address trade, the reluctance to pass anything that would create jobs, the faux outrage with Iran, accelerating the ghost chase in Afghanistan and Iraq while our economy crumbles. He is just more of the same.

I used to think it was part of some big dark sinister plan, not anymore. There is no plan, no "for the people", "of the people", "by the people". It's full speed ahead and the pilot house is empty, some are ripping off what they can before it plows in to something.

At least you're honest

[oladub]

firstandten, The requirement to be a natural born citizen is in the Constitution so confirming that requirement is not any different than making sure of the candidate's age which is also required and confirmed by the birth certificate. In the case of illegal aliens, birth certificates would be a useful way of helping to determine citizenship as would drivers' licences if a birth certificate had been required to obtain them. " If both candidates refuses to provide such documentation", they obviously wouldn't be listed on the ballot just like if they didn't submit some required number of nominations. There might be third party choices or write in options. Third parties have all sort of problems getting on state ballots, and often don't, so I don't feel sorry for Republicrats who run into the same problems if they attempted to be above the law [[So what's new?). Indeed, the federal candidate birth certificate requirement, not law yet, was probably triggered by Obama's expensive dodging of the issue having aroused 'reasonable suspicion" to use a term from the illegal alien discussion.

Back to Arizona's illegal alien problem. If someone is pulled over without a driver's license and the police are unable to identify them, it is common practice for the police to hold that person until they learn more about them. I don't have Arizona's law, but if anything like Wisconsin's, illegal aliens would already be in trouble if pulled over for driving without a driver's license.

"Also, under the current law, when a law enforcement officer conducts a traffic stop and the driver has no identification on them it makes it difficult to properly identify the person driving without a photograph. Currently if an officer makes a traffic stop and the driver has no identification on them the officer can do a wanted check and drivers license status check on that person. On the response that the officer would receive from DOT files currently identifies the race/sex of the person according to the DOT records. If that information does not help in identifying that person the officer has no other choice than to arrest that person and have them conveyed to a booking facility in order to use other means to identify that person, and then to have them post a bail for that traffic violation."
www.legis.state.wi.us

I read of another possibility which is whether or not the federal government will accept the illegal aliens turned over by Arizona. Maybe the Obama administration will find a judge who will issue a stay so the federal government can avoid it's responsibility. Maybe it would be cheaper for Arizona to just buy one way bus tickets to sanctuary cities such as Portland Oregon and let them pay for government services until , when and if, the federal government assumes it's responsibilities.

We must not forget that for every local government that tries to help the federal government do it's job, there are others who have established sanctuaries to prevent the federal government from enforcing immigration law.

[Papasito]

the Obama birth certificate controversey has absolutely nothing to do with an Arizona bill that states it will enforce Federal laws that already exist.

[firstandten]

Even Karl Rove has problems with this bill




“I think there is going to be some constitutional problems with the bill,� he said to the standing-room-only crowd at the Colony Cottage Recreation Center. “I wished they hadn’t passed it, in a way.�

Still, Rove, who was promoting his book Courage and Consequence: My Life as a Conservative in the Fight, objected to comments by critics including President Barack Obama that the law will lead to problems such as racial profiling by police.

“These are modern police forces that respect the rights of people in their communities,� Rove said. “They’re going to do it on the basis of reasonable suspicion that these people are here illegally, like they’re driving a car with a Mexican license plate or they can’t speak English or they don’t have a drivers license.�

Yea, right Rove, and I have some Arizona swampland I want to sell you


However, Rove said there may be other ways to tackle the issue.

“At the end of the day … I think there are better tools,� he said. “But I understand where it’s coming from.�

[Papasito]

Why do the same people who trust the government to control Wall Street, the Automakers, and Health Care not trust the same Government to impliment the law fairly? Why the double standard?

After all, Law Enforcement is an extention of Government.