University Club next to fall?

[Bearinabox]

If some painter or movie maker cannot afford to practice his craft it will not hurt the national or worldwide economy.

If, for example, the state of Michigan quit funding the DSO and cut everyone's taxes by a dollar or two, Michigan wouldn't be any worse off economically than it is now, but I certainly think it'd be a worse place to live.

[DC48080]

If, for example, the state of Michigan quit funding the DSO and cut everyone's taxes by a dollar or two, Michigan wouldn't be any worse off economically than it is now, but I certainly think it'd be a worse place to live.

The DSO gets the vast majority of it's funding from sources other than the government. To name a few: ticket sales, endowments, corporate sponsorships, foundations, bequests. Hell, during the 1910's nearly all of their funding came from two private individuals, John and Horace Dodge, who had a little car company.

Artists could get their funding from similar sources as well.

[Bearinabox]

The DSO gets the vast majority of it's funding from sources other than the government. To name a few: ticket sales, endowments, corporate sponsorships, foundations, bequests. Hell, during the 1910's nearly all of their funding came from two private individuals, John and Horace Dodge, who had a little car company.

Artists could get their funding from similar sources as well.

So you're saying that the DSO could lose all its public funding tomorrow and do just fine?

[DC48080]

Nowhere did I say that.

What I said was: The DSO gets the vast majority of it's funding from sources other than the government. To name a few: ticket sales, endowments, corporate sponsorships, foundations, bequests.

I doubt it would collapse if the government checks stopped coming.

[canuck]

Well there you go! If the govts hadnt helped out poor GM and Chrysler, then the CEO's of GM and Chrysler might be contributing to the Boston Pops instead of the DSO. The governments have been prety good to a lot of these companies over the years anyways. They got to do pretty much what they wanted selling fleets of cars all around. They built for the military, they had interest free loans for new equipment, etc... Their CEO's in the last couple of years had salaries 100 times that of their predecessors in the seventies.

Imagine what one could do with the pension mr Waggoner got when Obama kicked him out. That's a lot of golf clubs right there for your startups...

[DC48080]

Well there you go! If the govts hadnt helped out poor GM and Chrysler, then the CEO's of GM and Chrysler might be contributing to the Boston Pops instead of the DSO. The governments have been prety good to a lot of these companies over the years anyways. They got to do pretty much what they wanted selling fleets of cars all around. They built for the military, they had interest free loans for new equipment, etc... Their CEO's in the last couple of years had salaries 100 times that of their predecessors in the seventies.

Imagine what one could do with the pension mr Waggoner got when Obama kicked him out. That's a lot of golf clubs right there for your startups...

What are you smoking?

The government stepped in to bail out GM & Chrysler because they are two of the largest employers in the world. Imagine if they failed and then all of their ancillary suppliers, dealers, etc. failed.

You can hardly compare the DSO to two industrial giants who employ millions of people.

Tax dollars are too precious to just dole out willy nilly. They need to be saved for the things that are most important.

[canuck]

You dont need to pretend you are more sober. If these two giant automakers were driven by making goods that had more relevance to today's world instead of the guzzling jalopies of the last 15 years they might be in the winner's seat and Detroit too by the way. Dont tell me about the profits on bigger cars they had to make. Way before the shit hit the fan, GM's shares were worth a penny on the stock exchange and still the heads were gouging the company.

[DC48080]

Canuck, you obviously do not know a thing about that of which you speak.

[Bearinabox]

Tax dollars are too precious to just dole out willy nilly.

Why? What is so "precious" about them? You clearly didn't like being compared to Monica et al, but to me you sound just like them.

[n7hn]

so what is gonna be done with the building....... hmmmmm

[canuck]

What is so important about GM? The problem is you are giving these guys way too much importance. They, like the banks got picked up by their breeches by your money and they will still eff you up because they know how unimportant the rest of us are... At least that is the message you are sending them...

That is the kind of neuron cleaning that people are subject to. We all need cars and we all need endless suburbs that will in turn make us really depend on cars and shopping malls and hey lets not forget parking lots... Any ideas for that there building?

[DC48080]

What is so important about GM? The problem is you are giving these guys way too much importance. They, like the banks got picked up by their breeches by your money and they will still eff you up because they know how unimportant the rest of us are... At least that is the message you are sending them...

That is the kind of neuron cleaning that people are subject to. We all need cars and we all need endless suburbs that will in turn make us really depend on cars and shopping malls and hey lets not forget parking lots... Any ideas for that there building?

WOW! Amazing! You apparently have no concept of the economy and trying to explain anything to you would be utterly futile.

[Bearinabox]

WOW! Amazing! You apparently have no concept of the economy and trying to explain anything to you would be utterly futile.

Sweet irony.

[DC48080]

So let me see here, cars are bad, suburbs are bad, everyone should walk or ride a bike, everyone should live in the inner city, government helping out major companies that employ millions of people is wrong, government should instead support small artists. Did I cover all of the DetroitYes touchstones?

[Bearinabox]

So let me see here, cars are bad, suburbs are bad, everyone should walk or ride a bike, everyone should live in the inner city, government helping out major companies that employ millions of people is wrong, government should instead support small artists. Did I cover all of the DetroitYes touchstones?

Aaand Mr. Urbanist Straw Man In DC48080's Head makes another spectacular appearance. Must be tough finding room for him up in there.

[DC48080]

It would appear that your often mentioned "straw man" is indeed in your own head.

What part of Canuck saying "We all need cars and we all need endless suburbs " did you not understand?

[Bearinabox]

It would appear that your often mentioned "straw man" is indeed in your own head.

I mention him as often as you use him. Stop using him, and I'll stop calling you on it.

What part of Canuck saying "We all need cars and we all need endless suburbs " did you not understand?

It's an awfully long way from that to this:

So let me see here, cars are bad, suburbs are bad, everyone should walk or ride a bike, everyone should live in the inner city, government helping out major companies that employ millions of people is wrong, government should instead support small artists. Did I cover all of the DetroitYes touchstones?

[DC48080]

I mention him as often as you use him. Stop using him, and I'll stop calling you on it.

It's an awfully long way from that to this:

Not a long way at all.

You don't seem to be able to see that many on this forum are so pro city, not that there is necessarily anything wrong with being pro city, that they think everything else is bad. They frequently vilify the suburbs and hold them up as models of what is wrong in today's world.

[Al Publican]

I hear he is going to open up a dating service in the University Club building. It's going to be called... That's Ammori. [[ouch)

[Bearinabox]

Not a long way at all.

You don't seem to be able to see that many on this forum are so pro city, not that there is necessarily anything wrong with being pro city, that they think everything else is bad. They frequently vilify the suburbs and hold them up as models of what is wrong in today's world.

None of that justifies your habit of putting words into individual posters' mouths because you perceive those words to be the collective opinion of DetroitYes. This board ain't DC48080 vs. Crazy Irrational Urbanist Hive Mind--everyone here has their own opinion, and you shouldn't go around assuming that, because someone posted something you disagree with, they must subscribe to an entire arbitrary set of opinions you made up.

[DC48080]

None of that justifies your habit of putting words into individual posters' mouths because you perceive those words to be the collective opinion of DetroitYes. This board ain't DC48080 vs. Crazy Irrational Urbanist Hive Mind--everyone here has their own opinion, and you shouldn't go around assuming that, because someone posted something you disagree with, they must subscribe to an entire arbitrary set of opinions you made up.

Funny thing is that "urbanist" is not a word that has ever eminated from my keyboard until this sentence. It appears to be one of your buzzwords.

And when you speak about putting words in other's mouths and subscribing to arbitrary opinions, you should really look into the mirror.

[canuck]

I'm not against suburbs DC, I'm not against large corporations getting money from government either. But I am saying that the corporate world has had its fair share of help from both private and public money. If GM is too big to fail then maybe it should be cut up into smaller units which if were lucky, might happen to Goldman Sachs, because when that sucker comes down you can kiss your job at GM or KFC goodbye...

I live in a suburb too and I find it hard to go without a car like most people in my circumstance but if its possible to reverse the trend to build more satellite cities and favor density, I'm all for it. We have to reward planning that preserves resources in all North American cities. I think that street level businesses are a lot more attractive than the strip malls that litter the cities now. Detroit has lost alot of businesses but it still has buildings of character that will be rehabbed and will be a much cooler place if the master plan is radically different from what goes on in other cities. That is what attracts me to Detroit's situation. There is no other city that size to undergo such an upheaval. Of course you can look at how the germans rebuilt Dresden and the dozens of major bombed out cities. You can look at Japan and see how both these countries pulled their sleeves up and managed to be the 2nd and third largest economies in the world. One would think that a lot of the Marshall plan money went to heavy industry reconstruction but you can imagine that your butchershops and shoestores and other businesses werent started from nothing. Where did the money come from?

This is from the Marshall Plan description in Wikipedia under the Heading: Repayment

European Recovery Program loans were mostly used to support small- and medium-sized businesses. Germany paid the US back in installments [[the last check was handed over in June 1971). However, the money was not paid from the ERP fund, but from the central government budget.

]

[masterblaster]

I sent an e-mail to Preservation Wayne, asking them if they are working to preserve this building. Mrs. Karen Nagher of Preservation Wayne responded:

"Yes, we are working on efforts to appeal to the new building owner about restoring the building. Unfortunately there are no designations [[or protections) in place for the building so it will be dependent upon an temporary [[interim) local designation that the Detroit City Council has to approve. The letter is waiting for their approval. Then we hope to meet with the owner to determine his plans. He was last quoted as saying he had none."

[DetroitDerek]

I spoke to Mr. Al [[ that's what he likes to be called ) in his liquor store the day after he bought the building and was boarding up the University Club. I was interested in taking some pictures inside, which he would not allow. He acted like he was interested in selling the furniture off, but was unreasonable about what he wanted for them. The furniture inside has since been removed [[ some of it thrown through a window rather than taken down 2 flights of stairs ). I've heard a few rumors about potential plans for this building and would love to see it saved.

[Huggybear]

So petition City Council.

I sent an e-mail to Preservation Wayne, asking them if they are working to preserve this building. Mrs. Karen Nagher of Preservation Wayne responded:

"Yes, we are working on efforts to appeal to the new building owner about restoring the building. Unfortunately there are no designations [[or protections) in place for the building so it will be dependent upon an temporary [[interim) local designation that the Detroit City Council has to approve. The letter is waiting for their approval. Then we hope to meet with the owner to determine his plans. He was last quoted as saying he had none."