DPS leader's bad writing: Wrong message? Column

[Locke09]

It might help everyone to look up "dysgraphia".

I am in a very technical field and several males that report to me have various written communication issues. They include dyslexia and dysgraphia. I even have had a few employees over the years with high-functioning autism. They can actually do quite well in my field.

All were/are superb in their technical skills and analytical abilities. A couple with obvious dysgraphia have even risen to the level of supervisor or manager. They tend to have someone else [[usually a female ) edit their writing before sending it out. I'll even edit the writing for them when I know that they have a brilliant idea for how we should approach something, and I don't want it shot down just because of their poor writing abilities.

I used to be rather snobbish about what I considered less than exemplary writing skills before I had the opportunity to work with people who had superior logic skills but couldn't put two good sentences in a row together to save their lives.

[Thames]

Just because someone will choose to use this episode to spread racial stereotypes [[like chain letters that claim to depict photos from Detroit) doesn't mean that we should.

Django, do you hear that? Oh wait, your photo is Detroit. Nevermind.

[mam2009]

We deserve better, Detroiters! Expect and demand better!

[mrfinewine]

Hmmm. I'm a well-educated professional editor, and I'm not entirely persuaded. Yes, he is an embarrassingly bad writer. But we know nothing about his other skills or his ability to do his job. Let me put it this way: Laura Berman, the Detroit News columnist, is a professional writer and has the benefit of [[presumably) a team of editors going over her prose before we see it. Yet I can still point out at least half a dozen stupid writing mistakes in her column. Does this mean she's unfit for her job as a PROFESSIONAL WRITER? No! I want to know more about the rest of Otis's work before I advocate tossing him out on his ear. Believe me: I've edited famous, highly paid writers you've heard of whose prose was just as laughable before I and others had our way with it. If the man can think and communicate verbally, and if he surrounds himself with others who can translate his thoughts into better writing, I don't see why bad writing alone should disqualify him from any job.

[gnome]

Yet I can still point out at least half a dozen stupid writing mistakes in her column

Welcome to the forum. Around here, you have to back up claims. I have not taken a close look at Ms Berman's article, at least not with a red marker in hand, since you have, could you please provide the rest of the class with your notes.

All you need to do is copy Ms. Berman's article and import it here. Then using the various colors you can highlight the mistekes. If there is a modifier left dangling, or a dependent clause out of order, [[you can use the [[ ) buttons to create a sidebar.)

I thank you in advance for attending to this matter and in showing us the grammatical mistakes in the original piece. Since you already made your evaluations I don't imagine this task should take you more than a few quick minutes. In fact it should be easy for you, ... being a professional and all.

Again, welcome to the free flow of ideas at Detroityes.

[mrfinewine]

Okay, gnome, I'll take the bait. I'll quote just the pertinent passages from Berman's column and follow them up with my comments:

1. "The rest of the e-mail, and others that Mathis has written, demonstrate what one of his school board colleagues describes...": While an argument could be made that the commas around "and...written" don't make it purely parenthetical, the verb in the main clause should really be "demonstrates," not "demonstrate," because the subject is singular. Or the structure should have been ditched in favor of one less grammatically problematic.

2. "But the story of Mathis speaks directly to Detroit's educational conundrum, as officials try to raise standards and the proficiency of its students": One can deduce that the antecedent of "its" is meant to be "Detroit," but that really isn't apparent from the syntax. Not as clearly written as it should be.

3. "a disinterested student": She means "an uninterested student."

4. " 'If somebody gets ahold of this...' ": She's quoting someone, sure, but she's quoting a spoken statement [[I assume; she doesn't give any indication that she's quoting from printed material). So she should have corrected "ahold" to "a hold."

5. "After serving in the Navy, Wayne State placed him...": Textbook dangling modifier. Wayne State didn't serve in the Navy....

6. "Mathis said then his failure to pass the test...": Nothing technically wrong here, perhaps, but it would be much clearer with a "that" between "then" and "his."

7. "says Reverend David Murray": It may be Detroit News style to do it this way [[so I can't really attribute it to Berman), but this really should read "says the Reverend David Murray."

8. "Is it absurd for a man who cannot write a simple English sentence to serve as the board president? Or to lead the elected board...": This is really one question, not two. Serving as board president and leading the elected board are the same thing. Yet she refers in the next sentence to "the questions," not the question.

9. " 'Oh wow' ": Comma after "Oh."

Sorry it took so long, but I am a product of the Detroit public school system, after all.

[Gannon]

I heard in the background an interview with this man on the radio today...he was with a few others, so it was supposed to be a discussion. He was unapologetic to the extreme...and rudely spoke over anyone who dared bring up valid points rather than actually wait and have a substantive retort.

My friend Buddy's blood began to boil, his anger was palpable, and he held the phone in his hand awaiting the radio host to give the phone number for call-in questions and comments. It was never repeated, probably because all of the lines were already filled.

It IS amazing to have someone in this position with communications difficulties, but rather than simply have someone read over his output...or write it up off dictation, like in the olden days...he was so full of himself, he justified everything and very lamely attempted to explain it all away.


Apparently, that has worked for him thus far in life.


He got a few digs in against Robert Bob, and that's when I lost it. Fuck this guy and the WHOLE board of directors of the Detroit Public School system.

There needs to be a house-cleaning, and it should begin at the very top...and soon.


NO cheers on this one.

[East Detroit]

I didn't find the WSU English Proficiency exam that difficult. You pick a couple of topics and write a few pages of opinion paper, with a dictionary on hand. Oh wait, not anymore because this fucking jerk sued to stop it in 2007 after repeatedly failing the exam. He is an embarrassment to Wayne State. There is no way he should have ever graduated.

[rjlj]

All I have to say is "Wow!!" about this. If the students that are being so called "served" are scared about the people that are running things then something is terribly wrong. Tear up the establishment and let Bobb rule. Detroit students deserve better. Suburban kids are getting the best automatically and without a fight. If you can't write, then you can not read and you automatically can not lead an educational system. If the brain power you posses can not understand the basics, then nothing more can be achieved. Shit in equals shit out..

[gnome]

Mrfinewine, Thank you for taking the time to show us what you consider stupid errors, except when you refer to them as stylistic choices. So, i'm not sure I can agree with your original statement of

I can point out at least half a dozen stupid writing mistakes

.

For example, Reverend David Murry, that is his name. Not a title. He legally changed his first name to Reverend. True, you can look it up.

However, I do appreciate your walking the walk and pointing out your problems with Berman's writing style. It shows you are serious about your original point that Mr. Otis might be a good school board president once we consider his other leadership skills.

On this point I am interested. Mr Mathis must have a golden tongue to be able to get by as well as he has. This reminds me of Jacques Demers, the former coach of the Red Wings, who never learned to read or write. A very accomplished man.

Yet Jacques accomplished his person. He coached his teams with his mouth while they were in front of him. He didn't coach via letter because coaches don't coach that way. They practice their trade in person.

However, for Mr. Mathis he leads a group of unpaid - but elected - School Board Members. Do you think Mr. Mathis leads these volunteers in person, as Jacques Demers did, or do you think most of their work is through e-mail?

A golden tongue is tough to pull off in binary code.

[Gannon]

Gnome!

You just go ON with your bad self.

Made my morning...I'm chuckling into my McCann's Irish Oatmeal.


I've been sharpening my pitchfork and trying to find pitch-TAR for the torch.

Any help on where a fellow might find these around town?!



Cheers

[kryptonite]

Gnome, I have to agree with Gannon, your replies are definitely amunsing. I may be in love!

But regarding Otis, that's the sort of thing that elected positions easily result in. Granted, appointments are far from fool proof but any dumb-*ss can get themselves elected and STAY in their particular office indefinitely unless term-limited.

[mrfinewine]

Subsequent posts have made it sound as if the guy is a jerk. He may well be completely unqualified for this kind of work. I was going by Berman's article, which seemed to leave open the possibility that Mathis compensates for his lack of writing ability with other skills. He certainly seems to have impressed many of his peers somehow.

I think his biggest mistake may be having let this information get out there to begin with. Recognizing his huge deficit, he should have from the start of his career been letting a trusted aide write/edit all of his communiques. After all, do all of you calling for his head sincerely believe that every figure in a position of importance actually writes his or her own material? Public figures have speechwriters, ghostwriters, and spokesmen; writers have editors. If Mathis had had the wisdom to attach himself to a skilled one, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Maybe his naivete is as damning as his writing.

[Brittz]

Did anyone see him on Fox News yesterday? They really weren't too hard on him which is rare for them. He admitted to his failings in the English writing department.

[mrfinewine]

Gnome: That's funny about Reverend David Murray. I had no idea.

You asked for a dangling modifier and I showed you a big one, friend. Keep in mind that everything is relative, that one person's good writer is another person's laughable dangler of modifiers--who gets paid to dangle them at that.

[Detwa]

But how much time and expense would it take to have someone write all of your emails??? As a leader, he should send out dozens per day! I can't imagine the amount of extra time it would take to have someone ELSE have to write those for you. How do you effectively convey your thoughts if they have to be filtered? And if your ghostwriter isn't immediately available, you are effectively muzzled until they return? By then, the issue has changed and your original thought is no longer valid - but then, you never even got to state your original thought because you had no one to proofread your two sentence email???? Give me a break! How can anyone like this truly be effective in their position? I'm guessing he probably already has a lot of people covering for him and helping him do his job.

Not to overlook the fact that he has a low level of reading comprehension also - he admits that he has to read things 2-3x and then memorize them.

If this is an unpaid job, does he have a paying position somewhere?

[mrfinewine]

I hadn't thought about his having to write dozens of things a day. That's convincing and damning.

[Detwa]

LOL, I used "effective" three times in one paragraph!

[gnome]

As a wise man once said, "It is better to keep your mouth shut, and have others think you are an idiot, than open your mouth and prove it."

[mrfinewine]

Gnome: Is that directed at me, Mathis, or both of us?

[gnome]

Mrfinewine,

It was mainly directed at myself, as I've never taken that important advice. That said, Mr. Mathis would do well to redouble his efforts in learning to keep his hands off the keyboard. I suggest he take to wearing boxing gloves. A man with his sartorial panache might be able to pull it off.

In the olden days, folks would call their secretary and dictate memos over the phone. A good secretary would clean up the prose. Mr. Mathis would do himself, and the children of Detroit, a favor by going back to that long accepted practice.

[Locke09]

Fox 2 said in their report that Otis Mathis is a "math wizard". That's why I suggested looking up "dysgraphia", which is likely what Mr. Mathis had as a child. It was probably not adequately addressed.

I have dozens of emails in my inbox right now from supervisory and managerial level staff [[in a technical profession) that are similar to Mr. Mathis' email. As long as the emails are internal I do not care. When those persons send out anything formal, or send anything out to a larger audience, they have someone proofread for them. But we don't fret over internal emails. One of my most valued employees struggles with dysgraphia. Another has dyslexia. They have pulled our organization out of the fire many times.

I don't think Mr. Mathis needs to be ashamed or apologetic. I think he needs to be wiser. As someone suggested, get a trusted friend or colleague to proofread.

[Danny]

4 out of every 3 Americans are dyslexic.

I agree, the more people lose hope of helping the mentally retardation people, the more they lose hope in our society.

Here's a word for our sponsor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7t3daKTQMg

[Downtown Lady]

On this point I am interested. Mr Mathis must have a golden tongue to be able to get by as well as he has.

I wondered the same thing. I heard an interview with him on the radio yesterday, so I stopped to listen for a few minutes. He said that he had never been diagnosed with a learning disability, and that for a brief period in 4th grade he was placed in Special Ed classes. His parents quickly pulled him out of those classes as they didn't want him to be labeled as stupid.

I have to say though, in my opinion, he most definitely did not have "a golden tongue" -- his sentences were rambling and run-on, almost like he was lacking verbal commas and periods. I hesitate to type this because I don't want to be guilty of piling on, but the guy definitely did not have excellent verbal communication skills. As a matter of fact, his verbal communication did not sound very different from his written communication.

I'm sure he is a lovely man, but in my opinion he is completely unqualified and is doing a great disservice to the Detroit schools.

He said that his parents never allowed any of their kids to use the word "stupid", that they would get a beating if they used that word, which connects to why they took him out of Special Ed [[he made that connection himself in the interview). I wonder if he never would allow himself to be tutored because he saw needing a tutor as "being stupid".

In the 15 years it took him to get his degree, he could have mastered these skills if he had admitted that he needed help.

[bee@dee]

anybody can be a member of 'mensa'. just keep taking the tests until you arrive @the desired #.