Toyota's Woes

[lilpup]

Toyota is in a world or hurt right now and many, especially in Japan, are wondering why it didn't happen sooner. That hick politician Jeffe Sessions from Alabama is already blaming Obama for Toyota's woes.

Friday's USA TODAY probably gave him that idea:

Payback time: Is Toyota being punished by Obama, Congress and Detroit?

Are the Obama administration and Rust Belt members of Congress taking political advantage of Toyota to bolster the fortunes of Detroit automakers?


Given how Toyota has had to stop selling eight models, including the mega-popular Camry and Corolla, the question is worth posing.

[Danny]

Toyota is in a world or hurt right now and many, especially in Japan, are wondering why it didn't happen sooner. That hick politician Jeffe Sessions from Alabama is already blaming Obama for Toyota's woes.

Jeffe Sessions comments is NON-SEQUITUR! without backing it up with valuable sources. He can't blame Pres. Obama for Toyota's woes. There's nothing in the media that says Obama is to blame. The big blame is on former President George Bush Jr. for the rediculous global trade policies.

[Danny]

By 2011 Toyota's profits will be dangerously lower. They will be looking at the net loss of 10 billion dollars.

The Bright side is Ford had made a 2.7 billion dollar profit. YAY for American cars!

Go out and but American cars. Japanese cars are a life hazard.

[lilpup]

My question about this Toyota accelerator issue is this - if a 'sticky' accelerator is truly the problem then with over 2,000 incidents of unexpected acceleration in the US alone, certainly there should be at least ONE report of someone correcting/overcoming an unexpected acceleration incident by physically pulling the accelerator back up, right?

[Fury13]

In other bad news for people who hate Detroit but continue to live and post here:

Honda recalls 646,000 Fits for fire hazard

http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/29/news...dex.htm?hpt=T2

So now metro Detroit Honda [[or Toyota, or Kia, VW, etc.) owners "hate Detroit"?

Bulls**t.

Detroit does NOT = the domestic auto industry. This city, and this region, is so much MORE than that.

The domestic auto industry has been like economic crack cocaine to metro residents for decades. We've all been addicted to benefits from a one-horse economy, a house of cards that was sure to collapse sooner or later.

It will NEVER again be the way it once was here, with the auto industry driving every nuance of our society. Get used to that fact.

That said, Toyota clearly was negligent and needs to do whatever is necessary to rectify the problem. The PR fallout from this one is gonna hurt them long-term.

[pffft]

Detroit does NOT = the domestic auto industry.

I notice you repeat this a lot...but few seem convinced. It has been and will always be a big part of Detroit. Wishing it wasn't so won't change that.

[Fury13]

Detroit does NOT = the domestic auto industry.

I notice you repeat this a lot...but few seem convinced. It has been and will always be a big part of Detroit. Wishing it wasn't so won't change that.

Key words: "has been."

I'm not the one who is wishing. Many posters on this forum are unrealistically wishing we'll turn back the regional economic clock to 1970 in terms of both structure and production.

Well...

Ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure there were those in 1890 who thought that the stove industry "has been and will always be a big part of Detroit." Ditto for cigar-making. Or shipbuilding.

In 2050 a lot of old-timers will undoubtedly have fond memories of the once-dominant domestic auto industry. Ideas and industries come and go.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Ideas and industries come and go."

And opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. You have a history of anti-american, anti US domestic anything rhetoric on these boards. Just thought I'd point it out, Mr Yaris driver.

Never say never. If Trade hadn't been screwed with, Detroit would still be humming along just fine. If the selfish pricks involved with outsourcing hadn't trashed the American economy, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in right now. This isn't some sociological trend, this is the result of the American people being screwed over, period, Mr Yaris driver.

As a side, Now they are saying this may be an electrical issue causing Toyota's to accelerate on their own. Nice folks these jerks at Toyota, they couldn't blame an American manufacturer fast enough.

[Fury13]

Quote: "Ideas and industries come and go."

And opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. You have a history of anti-american, anti US domestic anything rhetoric on these boards. Just thought I'd point it out, Mr Yaris driver.

Never say never. If Trade hadn't been screwed with, Detroit would still be humming along just fine. If the selfish pricks involved with outsourcing hadn't trashed the American economy, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in right now. This isn't some sociological trend, this is the result of the American people being screwed over, period, Mr Yaris driver.

As a side, Now they are saying this may be an electrical issue causing Toyota's to accelerate on their own. Nice folks these jerks at Toyota, they couldn't blame an American manufacturer fast enough.

I wouldn't be "Mr. Yaris Driver" if I'd had better luck with American cars, Mr. Jingo. Before 2007, I never drove a foreign car, in my 30-plus years of car ownership. I went the extra mile with the domestic auto industry until I couldn't any more. Chew on that awhile, Mr. Ostrich.

And yeah, opinions are DEFINITELY like a-holes.

[Fury13]

If Trade hadn't been screwed with, Detroit would still be humming along just fine. If the selfish pricks involved with outsourcing hadn't trashed the American economy, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in right now.

Classic "let's blame somebody else" thinking. Nice. That's what has held this region back.

[lilpup]

Classic "let's blame somebody else" thinking. Nice. That's what has held this region back.

And you think this region dictates US foreign trade policy?

[East Detroit]

So now metro Detroit Honda [[or Toyota, or Kia, VW, etc.) owners "hate Detroit"?

Yeah, pretty much.

By the way, your personal silence regarding Ford's successes in safety, quality, mpg, technology, etc have been deafening.

Your previous comments that you were waiting for 40+ mpg were empty, as the time is now. And other comments slamming Ford for having another company doing surveys and saying you were waiting for Consumer Reports... also empty for those who see that Consumer Reports now loves Ford.

Waiting for the 40+ mpg Fiesta hatchback? I doubt that, too.

Your bias against Detroit with your own personal comments about giving up on them and the industry is history etc are all that anyone needs to see in the grain of salt categorization model.

If you don't like Detroit and have given up on its industry, why live here? I love Detroit and I love our industry and I don't keep whining that we lost and its a bad cause.

And back to the topic... are you apologizing for Toyota misleading their consumers until people died?

[Fury13]

Yeah, pretty much.

By the way, your personal silence regarding Ford's successes in safety, quality, mpg, technology, etc have been deafening.

Your previous comments that you were waiting for 40+ mpg were empty, as the time is now. And other comments slamming Ford for having another company doing surveys and saying you were waiting for Consumer Reports... also empty for those who see that Consumer Reports now loves Ford.

Waiting for the 40+ mpg Fiesta hatchback? I doubt that, too.

Your bias against Detroit with your own personal comments about giving up on them and the industry is history etc are all that anyone needs to see in the grain of salt categorization model.

If you don't like Detroit and have given up on its industry, why live here? I love Detroit and I love our industry and I don't keep whining that we lost and its a bad cause.

And back to the topic... are you apologizing for Toyota misleading their consumers until people died?

I think it's pretty evident from my posts that I don't apologize for Toyota, and that I don't condone them dragging their feet on addressing the acceleration issue.

I never said that I "don't like Detroit." I think the Detroit area and Michigan as a whole is a pretty good place to live. However, I don't agree that the auto industry defines Detroit, as many seem to believe.

Ford has done a great job lately and I have stated more than once that, when I'm ready for a new car [[in three years), I will look at what Ford [[and the other US companies) have to offer.

[Buy American]

However, I don't agree that the auto industry defines Detroit, as many seem to believe.

Ford has done a great job lately and I have stated more than once that, when I'm ready for a new car [[in three years), I will look at what Ford [[and the other US companies) have to offer.

"Detroit "Motor City," Michigan
Do you know why Detroit is known as "Motor City?"
Long recognized as the historic heart of the American automotive industry, Detroit took on the nickname "Motor City." The state's automotive industry provided the model for mass production that other industries later adopted. Henry Ford pioneered the use of the assembly line in manufacturing automobiles. Using conveyor belts, factory workers put different parts together quickly and relatively inexpensively -- like a mechanical puzzle. Ford's Model-T was the first car produced in this fashion, and it could be assembled more quickly and consistently than had ever been possible before. "

So...the auto industry does define Detroit. Just look around you. What is the unemployment percentage in Michigan right now? Substantial enough where people have lost their homes, their health care, their living; businesses like cleaners, barber shops, neighborhood diners, bars have closed their doors because of the trickle down effect. Anyone who says different has their heads buried so far up their a$$es it's pathetic.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "However, I don't agree that the auto industry defines Detroit"

Now I know you're just screwing around, yanking some chains, nobody could be dumb enough to make that statement. Yeah, Detroit doesn't have much to do with the automotive industry. That's all Detroit is.

All over the planet, the name Detroit is synonymous with auto production. I don't think there is another large city anywhere that could be so closely associated with any one industry, or quickly identified for it's mainstay.

[pffft]

Fury doesn't think Detroit should rely on the auto industry, but wishing it were so doesn't mean it is so.

And many of us here don't think that's necessarily the best goal anyway.
It's usually people who disdain the auto industry as low-rent, just a bunch of factory jobs, who have this view.

Detroit developed into the Motor City because it was the vortex of engineering and design genius, Henry Ford was elbow to elbow with dozens of others designing and manufacturing automobiles here. They crowded the bar at the old Pontchartrain Hotel [[not the 1965 Pontch) hustling their ideas...

Cars aren't going away, and if we successfully traverse the new technology, this will continue to be the Motor City.

[Fury13]

"Detroit "Motor City," Michigan
Do you know why Detroit is known as "Motor City?"
Long recognized as the historic heart of the American automotive industry, Detroit took on the nickname "Motor City." The state's automotive industry provided the model for mass production that other industries later adopted. Henry Ford pioneered the use of the assembly line in manufacturing automobiles. Using conveyor belts, factory workers put different parts together quickly and relatively inexpensively -- like a mechanical puzzle. Ford's Model-T was the first car produced in this fashion, and it could be assembled more quickly and consistently than had ever been possible before. "

So...the auto industry does define Detroit. Just look around you. What is the unemployment percentage in Michigan right now? Substantial enough where people have lost their homes, their health care, their living; businesses like cleaners, barber shops, neighborhood diners, bars have closed their doors because of the trickle down effect. Anyone who says different has their heads buried so far up their a$$es it's pathetic.

You don't have to give me a history primer. Notice, I said history, and anyone can read a history book.

Times have changed, or haven't you noticed?

[Zacha341]

Not sure how you'd do that.... wedge you foot or toes "under" the stuck or sticking accelerator? Perhaps that in combination of shifting to neutral...? I'm glad I don't have one of these new models.

My question about this Toyota accelerator issue is this - if a 'sticky' accelerator is truly the problem then with over 2,000 incidents of unexpected acceleration in the US alone, certainly there should be at least ONE report of someone correcting/overcoming an unexpected acceleration incident by physically pulling the accelerator back up, right?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Not sure how you'd do that.... wedge you foot or toes "under" the stuck or sticking accelerator?"

Then factor in the possibility of getting ones legs and arm down in that hole Toyota defines as leg room.

I've always thought vehicles should have an Emergency stop or killswitch, other than the keyswitch which can also lock the steering column. Any other piece of machinery has one. Race cars all have them? A good system, large relay on the positive cable, shuts everything down. Electrical fires, what ever could be halted.

[East Detroit]

Toyota accused of 'not being frank' on problem
Lawyers say that automaker hid dangers of pedals

http://www.freep.com/article/2010013...ank-on-problem

AKA Lying until people died.

[Buy American]

You don't have to give me a history primer. Notice, I said history, and anyone can read a history book.

Times have changed, or haven't you noticed?

Oh, I've noticed...and so have my relatives, friends, neighbors and others who live in Michigan. These "times" you're talking about are "bad times" because the auto industry has been hit hard and so many people here in the Motor City have lost their jobs or lost jobs related to or affected by the closing of plants.

I think Sstashmoo is right, you're screwing around and just trying to yank people's chains. No one could be so inept....or could you be?

[Sstashmoo]

Well there's your problem...

From the article above: "Toyota also said the computer could not open the throttle without the accelerator pedal being pressed,"

A computer cannot malfunction???? Issue commands erroneously?

From the same article: "But the company did reveal that it was conducting a "customer satisfaction campaign" to replace motors controlling the throttle, which could fail"

And there you have it, a "motor", stepper or servo controls the acceleration. What an asinine design methodology on something so safety sensitive. A servo can definitely move on it's own, because they are essentially an AC synchronous or DC brushed motor, and a Step motor can definitely move on it's own from RF noise on the motor leads. I can't believe they would design something like that [[Yeah I can actually). Folks this is going to be huge. No wonder Toyota has been trying to sweep this under the rug. This is going to result in a very lengthy and costly retrofit.

In other words, there is no mechanical connection/linkage between the pedal and the throttle body. A situation could arise where the system malfunctions and could omit synchronization between the two. If the car accelerates on it's own the driver might as well play with the door handle as pull on the gas pedal. There is nothing they can do, except trying to turn the engine off. Testing showed in this scenario it takes at least 1000 feet and five times the normal braking pressure to stop the vehicle by braking alone.


Those chickens always come home to roost.

[Buy American]

^^^^Too bad all the $hit didn't hit the fan a few years ago, Detroit would still be humming along.

[lilpup]

Well there's you're problem...

From the article above: "Toyota also said the computer could not open the throttle without the accelerator pedal being pressed,"

A computer cannot malfunction???? Issue commands erroneously?

From the same article: "But the company did reveal that it was conducting a "customer satisfaction campaign" to replace motors controlling the throttle, which could fail"

And there you have it, a "motor", stepper or servo controls the acceleration. What an asinine design methodology on something so safety sensitive. A servo can definitely move on it's own, because they are essentially an AC synchronous or DC brushed motor, and a Step motor can definitely move on it's own from RF noise on the motor leads. I can't believe they would design something like that [[Yeah I can actually). Folks this is going to be huge. No wonder Toyota has been trying to sweep this under the rug. This is going to result in a very lengthy and costly retrofit.


Those chickens always come home to roost.

We recognize that but the non-autocentric general public certainly doesn't. NHTSA needs to nail Toyota's ass on it and not let them get away with this 'sticky accelerator' bullshit.

[Fury13]

Oh, I've noticed...and so have my relatives, friends, neighbors and others who live in Michigan. These "times" you're talking about are "bad times" because the auto industry has been hit hard and so many people here in the Motor City have lost their jobs or lost jobs related to or affected by the closing of plants.

I think Sstashmoo is right, you're screwing around and just trying to yank people's chains. No one could be so inept....or could you be?

I think people who still want it to be 1955 are pretty inept.