Toyota's Woes

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I think people who still want it to be 1955 are pretty inept."

Translation: I think people who realize how unfair the trade policies are, conflict with my opinion and hatred for the American autoworkers.

[Fury13]

Quote: "I think people who still want it to be 1955 are pretty inept."

Translation: I think people who realize how unfair the trade policies are, conflict with my opinion and hatred for the American autoworkers.

Think whatever you want and keep painting with that broad brush. I don't hate the American autoworkers. Plenty of people in my family have worked in the auto industry or related businesses.

[Hermod]

^^^^Too bad all the $hit didn't hit the fan a few years ago, Detroit would still be humming along.

Their track record says otherwise.

Back in the Carter years, Japan agreed to limit the number of cars [[no limit on light trucks) it exported to the US for a certain number of years to enable the US auto industry [[esp Chrysler) to recover from the devastation of the late 70s.

As a result, Corollas and Celicas commanded prices several thousand dollars over list and their list prices jumped as well as the yen advanced against the dollar. All of the Jap car dealers invented the infamous "added dealer markup" on a second B.S. sticker next to the legal sticker.

Here was a chance for the Detroit Big Three to aggressively move and reclaim their lost market share. Did they do it?? Nope. They raised prices of the Detroit stuff and the Japs kept their market share.

It also got a lot more Jap pickup trucks in because dealers only got the cars which they could raise the price on if they took a certain number of trucks. As a result, you could get a small Jap pickup below cost.

Lets see if they exploit this Toyota problem to increase market share or just to jack their prices.

[lilpup]

Recently, meaning before this Toyota screw up, they've been increasing market share as is.

[Searay215]

My question about this Toyota accelerator issue is this - if a 'sticky' accelerator is truly the problem then with over 2,000 incidents of unexpected acceleration in the US alone, certainly there should be at least ONE report of someone correcting/overcoming an unexpected acceleration incident by physically pulling the accelerator back up, right?

You can't do that because unlike the cars of the past where the accelerator it connected to the engine by linkage, it is now connected by a wire to the ECM [[Engine Control Module) Its a drive by wire so pulling back on the accelerator would do no good.

[lilpup]

You can't do that because unlike the cars of the past where the accelerator it connected to the engine by linkage, it is now connected by a wire to the ECM [[Engine Control Module) Its a drive by wire so pulling back on the accelerator would do no good.

HAHAAAAA! You might want to rethink that.
---
Ok, that's a little mean. I'll walk you through it.

The signal sent to the ECM is dependent upon the position of the accelerator pedal [[in an ideal situation when all is working properly). If the pedal is sticking pr getting trapped in a depressed position, as Toyota claims is happening, then pulling the pedal back up would correct the signal being sent to the ECM and resolve the acceleration issue. Given the number of incidents reported one would think that, at some time along the way, some driver managed to take such action when confronted with the acceleration issue, thus confirming Toyota's sticky pedal scenario.

No such condition corrections seem to have been reported, however, and this creates suspicion about Toyota's claims. If indeed, as suspected by others, the issue is uncommanded inputs to the throttle controllers then drivers have absolutely no means of overcoming the condition and must take emergency action. Another factor that points to uncommanded inputs is that some of the acceleration incidents apparently have been of short duration and self-corrected. This isn't likely if the problem is indeed a mechanically sticky or trapped pedal.

[East Detroit]

Oh what a feeling....

"In addition, Camry, Lexus and Avalon owners are entitled to receive an override system that automatically cuts off engine power if both the gas pedal and the brake pedal are stepped on at the same time."

Sounds like a dangerous solution.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ta_recall.html

[pffft]

The hasty pedal fix is probably just delaying a real solution...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/bu...agewanted=1&hp

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "The hasty pedal fix is probably just delaying a real solution..."

Huge mistake on their part, but it's a huge problem.

[Hermod]

Toyota accused of 'not being frank' on problem
Lawyers say that automaker hid dangers of pedals

http://www.freep.com/article/2010013...ank-on-problem

AKA Lying until people died.

As the trial lawyers circle like vultures.

[bailey]

As the trial lawyers circle like vultures.

If they weren't would we have even heard about the problem?

[kryptonite]

My bad, but we will know if Toyota top management truly regrets the incident if someone in Tokyo disembowels themself with a samurai sword.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "As the trial lawyers circle like vultures. "

I's like to be a fly on the wall of that courtroom, when Toyota argues that their computer controlled electronic system to actuate the accelerator cannot malfunction. Cha-ching.

[babeeblumer]

Visit the NHTSA site. Do a search on a troubled US auto- ie.: 2000-2002 Ford Focus. With the chaotic record keeping of our "watchdog", FMC managed to turn that dangerous comedy of errors vehicle back into today's top seller. Their "silent recall" technique of replacing faulty parts when a vehicle is in for routine service keeps negative PR at a minimum- despite 14 critically dangerous defects, HUNDREDS of service bulletins, and untold serious injuries and deaths in those model years.

Fault Toyota for honest accountability if you will. Buy their stock while it's low- they'll rebound because they are accountable to the public and build a quality product.

[lilpup]

Visit the NHTSA site. Do a search on a troubled US auto- ie.: 2000-2002 Ford Focus. With the chaotic record keeping of our "watchdog", FMC managed to turn that dangerous comedy of errors vehicle back into today's top seller. Their "silent recall" technique of replacing faulty parts when a vehicle is in for routine service keeps negative PR at a minimum- despite 14 critically dangerous defects, HUNDREDS of service bulletins, and untold serious injuries and deaths in those model years.

Fault Toyota for honest accountability if you will. Buy their stock while it's low- they'll rebound because they are accountable to the public and build a quality product.

^^^Shill on the Toyota payroll^^^

[babeeblumer]

Actually, a grieving family member of an FMC vehicle fatality. What you don't know CAN hurt or kill you- or a loved one.

It's often true that nice guys finish last. I still credit Toyota for honesty here. Only wish honesty came before profits with regard to our struggling not-so-big-anymore three.

[lilpup]

Toyota's honesty where?? They still haven't admitted the real problem.

[pffft]

Uh, you're totally revising history here. The NHTSA has said repeatedly that Toyota has dragged its feet, and Toyota did not voluntarily recall, they were forced to by law.

As the NY Times reported today, as late as last fall, Toyota was insisting that floor mats caused this problem, and that they'd be "cleared" by the NHTSA. They had not been cleared.

Even today the NHTSA isn't certain this is a gas pedal problem, while Toyota is insisting that it is, trying for a speedy resolution rather than the right thing.

[babeeblumer]

Toyota could have done what FMC has done for years- fix, re-fix and re-re-fix faulty issues without telling owners and without making public declaration. By "honesty", I'm referring to Toyota choosing accountability to customers in that they are admitting that there may be a danger and letting customers decide whether to continue driving their potentially dangerous vehicle.

To this day, people continue to drive Ford's early model Focus despite serious electrical and fuel line issues lurking like a time bomb. Ford clearly figured out the problem and revised later model years. Still no public statement. Stranded motorists and burning vehicle complaints continue. Consumers deserve to make informed decisions on product use if a manufacturer knows there is a potential danger.

[pffft]

There was only "accountability" when Toyota was forced, by the NHTSA.

Otherwise, there would be none! How is that admirable?

[lilpup]

Toyota could have done what FMC has done for years- fix, re-fix and re-re-fix faulty issues without telling owners and without making public declaration. By "honesty", I'm referring to Toyota choosing accountability to customers in that they are admitting that there may be a danger and letting customers decide whether to continue driving their potentially dangerous vehicle.

To this day, people continue to drive Ford's early model Focus despite serious electrical and fuel line issues lurking like a time bomb. Ford clearly figured out the problem and revised later model years. Still no public statement. Stranded motorists and burning vehicle complaints continue. Consumers deserve to make informed decisions on product use if a manufacturer knows there is a potential danger.

Come up with the stats and yoru source for them before you continue to bash Ford, loser. Your PR campaign of spouting unsubstantiated anti-hype might work with the ignorant East and West coasters but it won't work here where people understand cars and technology.

[babeeblumer]

Admirable? Who said being accountable is admirable? It is expected.

Admittedly, it is difficult to "admire" Ford's past history of masking quality issues. NHTSA perpetuates deception of the public by complicated, overlapping categories of complaints and defect recording. Check it out. Ford may hold the record for a trouble plagued vehicle, but NHTSA enables this stuff to threaten the public when they drag their feet, regardless of who the manufacturer is.

By the way- you know anyone with a 2000-2003 Focus? Give them a heads up to check out the complaint site at NHTSA. Though Ford has done their best to "absorb" those faulty vehicles, there are still too many out there.

Knowing what went down with the Ford Focus issue without acknowledgment certainly does make you wonder what stats the have on Toyota. Or is there a zero tolerance for foreign auto makers? I certainly hope there's not a double standard. But really, mass transit may be the wisest way to travel.

I am in fact a loser-as I lost a family member to a flaming Focus. Thank you for your thoughtful condolences.

And again, visit the NHTSA site for your stats. Time for me to sign off.

[lilpup]

Admirable? Who said being accountable is admirable? It is expected.

Admittedly, it is difficult to "admire" Ford's past history of masking quality issues. NHTSA perpetuates deception of the public by complicated, overlapping categories of complaints and defect recording. Check it out. Ford may hold the record for a trouble plagued vehicle, but NHTSA enables this stuff to threaten the public when they drag their feet, regardless of who the manufacturer is.

By the way- you know anyone with a 2000-2003 Focus? Give them a heads up to check out the complaint site at NHTSA. Though Ford has done their best to "absorb" those faulty vehicles, there are still too many out there.

Knowing what went down with the Ford Focus issue without acknowledgment certainly does make you wonder what stats the have on Toyota. Or is there a zero tolerance for foreign auto makers? I certainly hope there's not a double standard. But really, mass transit may be the wisest way to travel.

I am in fact a loser-as I lost a family member to a flaming Focus. Thank you for your thoughtful condolences.

And again, visit the NHTSA site for your stats. Time for me to sign off.

GM, Ford, others = fix the problem, take the lumps, move on

Toyota = blame the consumer, deny the problem, lie, lie, lie, spin, spin, spin

Toyota: Publicity machine first, automaker second [[or third, or fourth...)

[Doma]

Agreed, Detroit companies have had plenty of recalls, however this one takes the cake. It would seem that Toyota is more concerned about JD Power, Consumer Reports and profit as opposed to the lives of people in our country. I don't think a major domestic automaker would ever pull a stunt like this. As somebody who has owned both foreign and domestics I wouldn't consider a Toyota again!

GM, Ford, others = fix the problem, take the lumps, move on

Toyota = blame the consumer, deny the problem, lie, lie, lie, spin, spin, spin

Toyota: Publicity machine first, automaker second [[or third, or fourth...)

[Roq]

^^^Shill on the Toyota payroll^^^

So transparently an account created just for this thread...be interesting to see who it really is.