Detroit plot sells for $1 per sq in

**Fnemecek** · January-12-10, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

Ethics? And this woman allowed herself to be tricked into buying a piece of property that she has no legal rights to? Hope she's not a government cunsultant.

What?

Are you saying that ethics and a sense of humor are mutually exclusive?

**Fnemecek** · January-12-10, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by jbd441

I mean if people will pay thousands for a partially eaten grilled cheese with a burned silouhette of Jesus on it.......... There's a sucker born every minute.

I wouldn't say "sucker". The people who pay $1 for this know exactly what they're getting [[a 1 square inch piece of paper that says "deed" on it that may or may not be legally valid) and the right to tell their friends that they own a piece of Detroit.

They pay their money. They get what they're looking for. Both the buyer and seller are happy.

This doesn't sound like my definition of a sucker. Granted, this isn't something that I would pay money for. However, that doesn't make those who buy it any more of a sucker than those who pay for a Diet Coke [[another product that I wouldn't buy).

**RickBeall** · January-13-10, 10:09 AM

An ant might buy a plot and use it as a vacation home ... especially if it was by a lump of sugar.

I'll buy 2 continguous plots and have a parsley farm ... or an aphid farm.

No, lets get serious...

I'm going to buy one and build a ant farm ... you know projects. And then further develop it by buying a column of plots and laying an expressway right through it.

Maybe I'll count up 8 from the bottom, buy a row, call it 8 Mile, and condemn everything below it.

**MJCMEX** · January-13-10, 12:20 PM

Wait a minute. What the hell is this?

I bought a REAL HOUSE in an ok neighborghood for 8K. I am moving here, and therefore bringing money to Detroit. Some of the people on this forum have ridiculed me for that, and yet this guy's fake "sale" of Detroit property is actually being treated by some as legitimate?

There are real plots of land, whole properties, in Detroit that can be purchased for $1 because the banks want to liquidate the properties. These are those same burned down houses that they show on youtube etc.

A real "love purchase" [[easy stomach don't turn over here) would be to get a bunch of people together, form a 501c3, get a grant for the tax burdens and buy a bunch of these properties for a buck each.

Then knock the burned down debris to the ground, haul it away and make parks, or parking lots, or build new houses on the land...there are any number of things that could be done.

This just insults the intelligence of anyone who cares about the city.

**n7hn** · January-13-10, 12:28 PM

but then it wouldnt be a novelty purchase..... people would have to plan, pay taxes, organize, hire , build and maintain the land.......... oh, and work well with others. Most would rather just pay the buck and be done. I dont think anyone is really expecting a return on investment or improvement of the area.

**MJCMEX** · January-13-10, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by n7hn

but then it wouldnt be a novelty purchase..... people would have to plan, pay taxes, organize, hire , build and maintain the land.......... oh, and work well with others. Most would rather just pay the buck and be done. I dont think anyone is really expecting a return on investment or improvement of the area.

You know, capitalism gets a bad rap these days, but true capitalism includes the concept that beautification of a person's surroundings is vital to over all quality of living.

In other words it is in my best interest as a resident of the city if I can help beautify the surroundings and see to it that there are a few poor people, burned down shacks, and general examples of squalor is possible.

Unless ths guy is taking his virtual sale money and buying a real plot with it he isn't doing the city any favors, but rather exploiting Detroit's current problems as a get rich quick scheme.

**RickBeall** · January-13-10, 03:05 PM

You are right MJCMEX. The 1 inch "plots" are about as helpful to Detroit as the artist who proudly proclaimed he was going to buy a junked house in Detroit, freeze it in a block of water, and the end result would have some great meaning we all should admire.

But I don't think people in this forum were really taking this guy very seriously. I mean, we said it was no better than a Ponzi scheme ..., and I was not really serious about buying an inch and placing an ant farm there.

But I do have a line on a supply of real Detroit ants if anyone is interested. A penny an ant.

Retroit · January-13-10, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by MJCMEX

Wait a minute. What the hell is this?

I bought a REAL HOUSE in an ok neighborghood for 8K. I am moving here, and therefore bringing money to Detroit. Some of the people on this forum have ridiculed me for that, and yet this guy's fake "sale" of Detroit property is actually being treated by some as legitimate?
...
This just insults the intelligence of anyone who cares about the city.

Welcome to the "alternate universe" that is Detroit - where dumb ideas are lauded and workable solutions are laughed at.

**Fnemecek** · January-13-10, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by MJCMEX

Wait a minute. What the hell is this?

I bought a REAL HOUSE in an ok neighborghood for 8K. I am moving here, and therefore bringing money to Detroit. Some of the people on this forum have ridiculed me for that, and yet this guy's fake "sale" of Detroit property is actually being treated by some as legitimate?

I bought a real house in Detroit, too. I paid a heck of a lot more than $8K for it a few years ago for it, even though it's probably not worth more than $8K now.

I've never ridiculed anyone for buying in Detroit.

I also don't ridicule the occasional guy who comes up with a novelty item that involves Detroit real estate.

There's enough land in Detroit for both serious developers and homeowners as well as guys like this one.

**Gistok** · January-13-10, 10:05 PM

This just goes to show you that P. T. Barnum was right.... "there's a fool born every minute"... but in this case it's the buyers, not the seller.

**jerrypaffendorf** · January-14-10, 12:26 AM

Hi guys, this is the Jerry Paffendorf from the article and the LOVELAND project. My roommate Joe Krause showed me this thread yesterday and I just got my account here validated. So, hello! You might be interested in an interview I did the other day that shares more about where I'm coming from and the way I'm thinking about this: http://7billionfriends.tumblr.com/po...ew-hot-off-the

If any of you are interested in meeting up and talking about the project [[and whatever else) let me know. I'm always looking to meet with creative people to share ideas and collaborate on things. My email and phone number are right on the homepage of http://makeloveland.com . I'm a very real person, very genuine, very motivated to create awesome new things, and not hard to get in touch with to meet or ask questions.

On that note, tonight [[Thursday) at 6 PM there's an art opening at the Ladybug Gallery of the Contemporary Art Institute of Detroit for a Detroit Lives group show where I'll be hanging out showing some LOVELAND artifacts including a vending machine that vends real estate: http://bit.ly/4FpIFB . That should be a lot of fun with a lot of cool people if you can make it. And, hey, a free inch to anyone who mentions they came in off this DetroitYES thread [[and maybe a noogie depending on who you are what you said about me here :P).

Cheers, guys. I look forward to developing these ideas and this project further and further.

Jerry

**Goose** · January-14-10, 12:37 AM

forget about the $1 per sq. inch buyers...... $500 for a vacant lot in Detroit, and with that he get to pay taxes on the property??? there is a sucker born every minute....

**davewindsor** · January-14-10, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by RickBeall

You are right MJCMEX. The 1 inch "plots" are about as helpful to Detroit as the artist who proudly proclaimed he was going to buy a junked house in Detroit, freeze it in a block of water, and the end result would have some great meaning we all should admire.

But I don't think people in this forum were really taking this guy very seriously. I mean, we said it was no better than a Ponzi scheme ..., and I was not really serious about buying an inch and placing an ant farm there.

But I do have a line on a supply of real Detroit ants if anyone is interested. A penny an ant.

Why sell yourself short. $1 an ant. Add food and a see through ant farm box with dirt and some food for $50 and now you're really making some money. Heck, there's people at the local malls selling Hermit crabs with two painted sea shells, food and a small glass fish tank for $75 and it's a big seller.

But, the difference between an ant farm and the land shark is that everything is legit. You're not selling fake plastic ants or IOU ants written on paper. No laws are broken and there are no fraudulent deeds handed out. If he was truly doing this to make the city a better place, he'd register it as a non-profit/licensed charity so people at least know it's going towards those great goals, not someone's pocketbook. There's nothing altruistic about this and he's marketing fraudulent deeds. Multiple deeds handed out on a single deed property are required by law to be approved by the city. The way it's being done is wrong. I'm surprised no one [[MJCMEX?) has filed a police report.

**Scratch** · January-14-10, 04:43 AM

Wow, some people take things entirely too seriously. With all the complaint about constant, often violent, crime, you want to file a police report? On a guy selling what amounts to pressed pennies, who might actually be directing attention and interest towards the cheap real-estate in the city you want to repopulate? In all three cities I've lived, you would have been laughed right out of the precinct, even if they didn't have anything better to do. Come on... like he's the only one there who might not be following the letter of the law to make money!

**davewindsor** · January-14-10, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Scratch

Wow, some people take things entirely too seriously. With all the complaint about constant, often violent, crime, you want to file a police report? On a guy selling what amounts to pressed pennies, who might actually be directing attention and interest towards the cheap real-estate in the city you want to repopulate? In all three cities I've lived, you would have been laughed right out of the precinct, even if they didn't have anything better to do. Come on... like he's the only one there who might not be following the letter of the law to make money!

It's not pressed pennies, it's $7,000+ from a $500 investment. And, he might be directing the wrong kind of attention to the city, like the attention that you can get away with fraud in this city. Repopulating the city can be done through lower taxes or amalgamation with the region or many other ways that don't include fraud.

You also suggest he's the not the only one there who might not be following the letter of the law to make money? Ok, so does that mean you're doing something like that? Fine, confess your sins, my child. Let's hear it. How about including your contact info with your confession since you think what you've done means nothing and you can get away with it.

**MJCMEX** · January-14-10, 12:30 PM

I don't think that Jerry should go to jail. That is pretty extreme.

I do agree that a functional 501c3 dedicated to raising funds for both the tax burden [[that's the main cost) and the liquidation fee [[as low as $1 per lot) would be much more helpful in the real world of Detroit and its crime problems.

I myself am an artist, specifically a composer of classical music. I understand "artfulness" in general , but I just don't get how selling ghetto land for a dollar an inch is helpful when I was able to buy in a decent neighborhood for $5.50 per square FOOT, including the tax burden.

Jerry if you can explain that here I would welcome it. I did go to your site and to me it seemed very hard to navigate, at least in terms of finding how this project will bring real growth, revenue, and assistance to Detroit.

**gencinjay** · January-15-10, 11:35 AM

I find it very interesting that people on a message board can react so negatively to this in the age of social networking sites. There is no fraud here. People can read exactly what they're getting. If they don't understand it, it's not the creator's fault. Will it do any good for Detroit? Well that remains to be seen and may never be able to be actually calculated, but it certainly won't do any real harm either. At the least it brings a group of people together in some sort of community. Yes it's a virtual community, but maybe just maybe it can develop into something more substantial.

**davewindsor** · January-15-10, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by gencinjay

I find it very interesting that people on a message board can react so negatively to this in the age of social networking sites. There is no fraud here. People can read exactly what they're getting. If they don't understand it, it's not the creator's fault. Will it do any good for Detroit? Well that remains to be seen and may never be able to be actually calculated, but it certainly won't do any real harm either. At the least it brings a group of people together in some sort of community. Yes it's a virtual community, but maybe just maybe it can develop into something more substantial.

Selling multiple deeds to a single deed property without city approval is fraud. It is the creator's fault. You can't rewrite the law to fit your own goals and ignorance of the law is not an excuse. If he wanted to play by the rules, he could spend two of his seven grand to file an articles of incorporation and offer a million shares to his parcel of land at a buck a share and change those deeds he sold into shares to fix things.. In a sense, that would be like owning an inch of land. He hasn't done that.. What he's doing is illegal.

Bearinabox · January-15-10, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by gencinjay

I find it very interesting that people on a message board can react so negatively to this in the age of social networking sites. There is no fraud here. People can read exactly what they're getting. If they don't understand it, it's not the creator's fault. Will it do any good for Detroit? Well that remains to be seen and may never be able to be actually calculated, but it certainly won't do any real harm either. At the least it brings a group of people together in some sort of community. Yes it's a virtual community, but maybe just maybe it can develop into something more substantial.

To clarify: I basically agree with this, and my above comments in this thread have more to do with the fact that I'm a snarky asshole than anything else. I will freely admit that I don't exactly "get" Mr. Paffendorf's project, but I wish him well with it and don't consider what he's doing to be morally objectionable. It's nice that people are taking an interest in the city, and just because not all of it is right up my alley doesn't mean it has no value. It's a big city, there's room for all types, and if we should be prosecuting anyone it's the thieves and murderers.

**MJCMEX** · January-15-10, 12:17 PM

I am still waiting for Jerry to comment upon my last post.

**cub** · January-15-10, 01:03 PM

If you are taking from this any more than it being an art project getting the word out about positive things going on in Detroit, something is wrong with your brain. Do you know if he is using it to fund other projects? Donating to a non-profit in the city?

**davewindsor** · January-15-10, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by cub

If you are taking from this any more than it being an art project getting the word out about positive things going on in Detroit, something is wrong with your brain. Do you know if he is using it to fund other projects? Donating to a non-profit in the city?

If you think selling fraudulent deeds is an art project, then something is wrong with "your brain".

**n7hn** · January-15-10, 02:32 PM

is it possible he is selling it off with the multiple deeds like a co-op and not a condo? I mean co-op's have multiple owners and its not illegal........

**n7hn** · January-15-10, 02:38 PM

and lets just say 5,000 more people did this, at least there would be 5,000 les vacant lots that are now providing tax revenue......he could spend his $7000 in taxes in just a few years,,,,, there goes his windfall

Or perhaps larger lots could be sold, built w miniature buildings, then they could be neclected and left to rot, burned down or inhabited by lil hobo's......... thats a bit more in line w a artistic statement.

Retroit · January-15-10, 02:46 PM

If the purchasers are not being listed on the deed, then this is fraud.

If the purchasers are being listed on the deed, then Mr. Paffendorf is going to have some serious legal issues if he ever decides to do anything with this property.