Vigilante, hero, or killer?

**Fury13** · January-06-10, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

If that was the case, why are the prisons and jails full of people???!?!?

Lots of bad people out there, ejames.

**bailey** · January-06-10, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Lots of bad people out there, ejames.

so, kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out?

**ejames01** · January-06-10, 01:07 PM

If they threaten you with a gun then shoot them [[just make sure you are within your legal right to).

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I have the reverse of this story: On October 20, in broad daylight, a retired neighbor of mine in SW Detroit surprised a teen-ager and his friend trying to climb in my neighbor's back window. Kids take off when they see my neighbor come into the room. Neighbor has his car keys at the ready and chases the kids in his car for a few blocks - when the kids stop, neighbor yells at them to stay away from his house or he'll shoot them. One kid lifts his shirt and jacket and removes a gun from his waistband and points it at neighbor. Neighbor leaves and is confounded. What to do when even teen-age kids have guns when they come to rob you????

Retroit · January-06-10, 01:24 PM

Since it appears this debate is going nowhere, I'd like to throw out a question:

What is your plan of action if you were in a situation where you suspected someone was in the process of breaking into your home but had not actually gotten inside? You don't have to use the specifics of the Croff case, but just a general, generic break in.

Options are:

Run and hide
Shout or make noise to scare them away
Chase them until they depart your property
Chase them until you beat the hell out of them [[or vice-versa)

Any other options? BTW, I would assume in all cases, you would call police.

**Fury13** · January-06-10, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

so, kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out?

Not all of them. Just the bad ones.

**bailey** · January-06-10, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Not all of them. Just the bad ones.

And how 'bad' does one have to be to merit the death penalty?

**ejames01** · January-06-10, 02:34 PM

Shoot them [[if they are In or attempting to enter my home)

Originally Posted by Retroit

Since it appears this debate is going nowhere, I'd like to throw out a question:

What is your plan of action if you were in a situation where your home was in the process of being broken into? You don't have to use the specifics of the Croff case, but just a general, generic break in.

Options are:

Run and hide
Shout or make noise to scare them away
Chase them until they depart your property
Chase them until you beat the hell out of them [[or vice-versa)

Any other options? BTW, I would assume in all cases, you would call police.

**ejames01** · January-06-10, 02:37 PM

fury is just taking over the silliness throne from ms. G

Originally Posted by bailey

And how 'bad' does one have to be to merit the death penalty?

**ejames01** · January-06-10, 04:09 PM

Oh my, she is going to shoot me!

Originally Posted by Ms. G

OK. I stopped responding to you. I only called you an idiot after you called me a hypocrite. I suggest you back off of me.

**Fury13** · January-06-10, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

fury is just taking over the silliness throne from ms. G

Nope... just tired of criminals "getting over." I am weary of the posturing, the language, the intimidation, the robbing, the theiving, the killing. I am sick of the thugs being free to do their thing whenever the hell they feel like it.

**ejames01** · January-06-10, 04:14 PM

I would like them all executed too, but it is not responsible to suggest that citizens should go around shooting bad guys. Especially when you are not willing to do it yourself.

Originally Posted by Fury13

Nope... just tired of criminals "getting over." I am weary of the posturing, the language, the intimidation, the robbing, the theiving, the killing. I am sick of the thugs being free to do their thing whenever the hell they feel like it.

**ejames01** · January-06-10, 04:15 PM

What kind of sick person wants to shoot people that they debate with on a forum?

Originally Posted by Ms. G

Good, so you were listening.

**Zacha341** · January-06-10, 08:57 PM

Yep, it's not completely true [[I live in Detroit), there are areas for sure that have very, VERY slow police response... several pockets of the east side have very low coverage, areas on the west side too. WSU has good coverage tandem with WSU police. Downtown too, especially for special events.... wall to wall standing around sometimes...

Originally Posted by ejames01

That is NOT true. What part of Detroit do you live in?

**Zacha341** · January-06-10, 09:11 PM

Call the police AND arm yourself - I detailed the options of overhead shot with shot gun [[bird shot vs XX) in earlier posts. Some cops will advise you to call 911 and put the phone down [[so the 911 operator will have a recording of your "lawful" actions. Then wait for the person to actually come inside and be ready to to shot ONLY IF you must. Never go to the intruder, this is dangerous unless you are "swat" trained.

Untrained folks who have engaged an intruder often have had guns taken from them. Bad day! Best to wait until they are in your space, ready.

Most thieves know the characteristic "chik-zchakz" sound of a pump-style shot gun racked and ready and will leave. Or an overhead or ceiling shot may deter and hasten a quick exit sparing you from harm or having to shoot. In any event it is all recorded and verifies you did not pursue or chase anyone down an alley.

Originally Posted by ejames01

Shoot them [[if they are In or attempting to enter my home)

**Zacha341** · January-06-10, 09:24 PM

Some of these robbers, b&e perps, and car jackers are cowards seeking easy prey. Some are not expecting a response or refusal to simply be a victim....

A friend of mine was getting in her car in the dark going to work in her own drive way and a young guy saw her came forward fast, stating: "get in the car and gimme the keys!" She pulled out her gun -- he sorta froze and walked briskly away, then started to run as he went along. She then quickly went back into the house called the police who came fairly fast [[in this case) and took the report.

She has a CCW so she was ok on that level and the attempt was on her property and she did not pursue the guy.

Originally Posted by ejames01

If they threaten you with a gun then shoot them [[just make sure you are within your legal right to).

**ejames01** · January-07-10, 08:02 AM

You have a valid point. Someone participating in a debate would have more to add than absurd opinions, name calling and threats.

Originally Posted by Ms. G

We're not debating, you're an idiot. I don't argue [[or debate) with idiots. You're bringing a knife to a gun fight. [[That will just get you shot).

**ejames01** · January-07-10, 08:11 AM

A lot of people are getting CCW permits. If you plan on getting one, be prepared to spend 1/2 day at the county clerk.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...d_273955_7.pdf

**bailey** · January-07-10, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by ms. G

we're not debating, you're an idiot. I don't argue [[or debate) with idiots. You're bringing a knife to a gun fight. [[that will just get you shot).
:d:d:d

bang bang!

**Zacha341** · January-10-10, 06:43 AM

For sure, it seems the "break-in" crowd is getting bolder and "younger" and some home owners are getting "bold" and fighting back... not chasing someone down the alley - we see the problem with that. Got that. But some are considering at least long guns as the back up to protect family etc. from someone inside your home.

Originally Posted by Fury13

Nope... just tired of criminals "getting over." I am weary of the posturing, the language, the intimidation, the robbing, the theiving, the killing. I am sick of the thugs being free to do their thing whenever the hell they feel like it.

smudge pot · January-10-10, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

But... there are NO cops. Not available, anyway. Not in Detroit.

The only thing cops guarantee is that the paperwork will get done, properly. They'll put on the gloves, yellow-tape the scene. Meanwhile, are you dead? A statistic? Small comfort there. Anonymous quote: "I'd rather have twelve men try me than six men bury me".

**Wykkidx** · January-10-10, 06:58 PM

So did the police catch the criminal?? or is he still at large?

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Some of these robbers, b&e perps, and car jackers are cowards seeking easy prey. Some are not expecting a response or refusal to simply be a victim....

A friend of mine was getting in her car in the dark going to work in her own drive way and a young guy saw her came forward fast, stating: "get in the car and gimme the keys!" She pulled out her gun -- he sorta froze and walked briskly away, then started to run as he went along. She then quickly went back into the house called the police who came fairly fast [[in this case) and took the report.

She has a CCW so she was ok on that level and the attempt was on her property and she did not pursue the guy.

**Zacha341** · January-10-10, 07:48 PM

Yep. That's why some cops will tell you to have a backup within your home for the last call option "after" you dial 911 if the intruder persists.... the police clearly know they may not get there in time. There simply is too much territory to cover.

Originally Posted by smudge pot

The only thing cops guarantee is that the paperwork will get done, properly. They'll put on the gloves, yellow-tape the scene. Meanwhile, are you dead? A statistic? Small comfort there. Anonymous quote: "I'd rather have twelve men try me than six men bury me".