Sorry, but you have no 'right' to health care.

[Sstashmoo]

More to Asia than Japan. If you think Japanese workers are the same as US workers, you're wrong. They are much more productive per dollar spent. Japanese incomes are equal now, not when they first started infringing on our markets.

You can guys can blame your bosses all you want, you need one of those mirrors with "The problem" etched in it.

[elganned]

If we would have HAD to build economy cars over the last ten years and went head to head with the Asians earlier, this auto recession would have happened years ago.

Then since it was inevitable, what are you bitching about?

You can guys can blame your bosses all you want, you need one of those mirrors with "The problem" etched in it.

I don't build autos, nor do I make the decisions for those who do. So you can keep your mirror.

The US share of the auto market shrank from 70% in 1980 to 30% in 2000. The handwriting was on the wall for a looooooong time. Somebody should have read it.

[rb336]

More to Asia than Japan. If you think Japanese workers are the same as US workers, you're wrong. They are much more productive per dollar spent. Japanese incomes are equal now, not when they first started infringing on our markets.

Falsehood # 3 -- yer OUT!

from 1950-1980, Japan never topped 72% of US worker productivity
[[ http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...42/ai_9244233/ )

for the most recent data I can find [[2006), we are still #1 in productivity:
Output per worker in US dollars
USA $63,885
Middle East $21,910
Global average $19,834
LatAm & Caribbean $18,908
North Africa $12,967
East Asia $12,591
SE Asia & Pacific $9,419
South Asia $7,998
Sub-Saharan Africa $5,062

# 2 was Ireland, at $55,986
[[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm )

[Sstashmoo]

rb, We're talking about auto workers here. Ever been in a car plant? Save it, those stats are BS.

[Sstashmoo]

rb's typical arguments, taking data irelevant to the discussion and trying to beat everyone over the head with it. Many issues are not settled because a few digits with % sign after it are referenced. Overly simplistic there rb.

Quote: "The handwriting was on the wall for a looooooong time. Somebody should have read it. "

Yes, the people demanding more or they'd strike if they didn't get it. They got it.

[ghettopalmetto]

rb's typical arguments, taking data irelevant to the discussion and trying to beat everyone over the head with it. Many issues are not settled because a few digits with % sign after it are referenced. Overly simplistic there rb.

Quote: "The handwriting was on the wall for a looooooong time. Somebody should have read it. "

Yes, the people demanding more or they'd strike if they didn't get it. They got it.

I'll just say that I'm thrilled I don't work in your sweatshop.

[MikeM]

Hourly Compensation of Automotive Production Employees, 2003, in $US:


U.S. $33.61
U.K. 24.28
Taiwan 7.96
Spain 19.36
Mexico 3.49
Korea 13.67
Japan 24.36
Italy 19.17
Germany 40.00
France 23.21
China 0.90

[bailey]

Hourly Compensation of Automotive Production Employees, 2003, in $US:


U.S. $33.61
U.K. 24.28
Taiwan 7.96
Spain 19.36
Mexico 3.49
Korea 13.67
Japan 24.36
Italy 19.17
Germany 40.00
France 23.21
China 0.90

How much does that work out to in Ameros?

[elganned]

rb's typical arguments, taking data irelevant to the discussion and trying to beat everyone over the head with it.

The data is not irrelevant. You stated that Japanese workers are more productive than US workers. That makes the productivity stats relevant. Had you wanted to limit the discussion to auto workers, you should have said so. It's not rb's fault that you don't state your premise clearly.

Quote: "The handwriting was on the wall for a looooooong time. Somebody should have read it. "

Yes, the people demanding more or they'd strike if they didn't get it. They got it.

So I guess the people in the corner office decided the best thing to do was to sit on their hands and wait for the fuse to reach the dynamite, then try to make the necessary changes to remain competative?

Blame it all on the workers if you want, but the guys in the suits make the decisions as to what products to make and how to market them, not the guys on the line.

[rb336]

Hourly Compensation of Automotive Production Employees, 2003, in $US:

now down to around $26-27/hr in the US

[rb336]

rb, We're talking about auto workers here. Ever been in a car plant? Save it, those stats are BS.

actually, US auto workers productivity is tops as well. that all came out during the debates about the bailouts

[ccbatson]

Market driven is where the number should be.

[Lorax]

Mike's US figures include projected value of that labor per hour with benefits included. The real adjusted figures are around 17-22 buck per hour depending on which health care provider is used.

Foreign workers like in Japan and Germany have cradle to grave health care, we don't.

So, naturally American workers get less, and no socialized health care.

[MikeM]

Whatever it is, it's nowhere near what China or Mexico pays. Good luck with that.

[Lorax]

And we're suppose to compete with that?

Looks like a race to the bottom. You can thank Walmart and a few dozen other giant American corporations for selling out the American worker in favor of cheap labor.

If things get bad enough here, there won't even be people left able to afford Walmart. Seems like killing the goose for greed, to me.

Oh, and we can thank the years of deregulation by the likes of Reagan and the Bush Crime Family, Clinton, and others for quickening the demise.

[elganned]

Whatever it is, it's nowhere near what China or Mexico pays. Good luck with that.

*shrug* So find a niche were you can compete. Isn't that the Way of the Entrepreneur that conservatives are so famous for promoting and idolizing?

[Lorax]

No, like most Republicans, he folds like a lawn chair.

Easier to bitch than propose solutions that actually would work and not aggregate the wealth of the corporatists.

[MikeM]

I think his response was directed at you Lorax.

And we're suppose to compete with that?

So find a niche were you can compete.

[Lorax]

He quoted you, not me.

[MikeM]

Whatever it is you're reaching for, it's not there. I refer you to my previous post.

[Lorax]

Whatever that reach is, you obviously failed to get it.

Post 91 quoted YOU.

Use your scroll up button and it can be viewed easily.

Don't know what else we can do to assist the challenged.

[rb336]

"rights" are a mutable thing. the are created by societies, and not granted by our creator, except inasmuch as society creates us. Civilized peoples the world over for many centuries considered ownership of others as a right, to some degree or another. now the vast majority of civilized people consider health care a right.

[Rideron]

Actually, you DO have a right to seek your own health care.

What you DON"T have is a right to reach into MY pocket to pay for it.

For that to happen, Government must coerce me, and all other taxpayers. with the threat of force and punishment.

That does not make my paying for your health care your 'right'.

You already HAVE a right to seek all the health care you want.

What we're talking about is, who PAYS for it.

So, what you're gonna get is a benefit, not a 'right'.

Government is taking from ME to give to YOU.

The only manner in which 'rights' come into this, is the manner in which MY right to MY property is being denied by the Government; so they can take it FROM me for YOUR benefit.

[ccbatson]

"Mutable"...not the core value and right of ownership of the contents of your mind and all that they result in.

[rb336]

those "core values" are very much a modern product, and their definition varies widely.