Statues coming home to Wayne County Bld

**davewindsor** · December-13-09, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Those were removed from the roof after WWII because the Nazis had modeled their standards after Roman standards, and the people of the day couldn't handle coming back to see something so Nazi-like on a public building.

Who told you that? If ancient symbols that looked like Nazi symbols were so taboo on buildings, how come they never removed the swastikas from the Penobscott?

Lorax · December-13-09, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

You're forgetting the best known example of quadrigas which is the on top of the Berlin Brandenburger tor.

This chariot with four horses in front was also recently renovated. The Wayne county building quadrigas are also mentioned in the wiki, with a picture no less!

The stues with staffs.

The Minnesota State Capitol quadrila [[glod plated!) still retains the staff, even though it does resemble the Berlin quadrila.

I hadn't forgotten about the Brandenburg Gate, love that one too, but the pair of them on the corners of the Grand Palais in Paris are so full of motion and much more sculptural to my eye, and less static. Detroit's pair are more articulated than the Berlin one as well.

The standards really need to be replicated to finish it off properly.

Lorax · December-13-09, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Who told you that? If ancient symbols that looked like Nazi symbols were so taboo on buildings, how come they never removed the swastikas from the Penobscott?

I rather thought the same thing, but the WCB was a civic structure as opposed to the Penobscot and other with swastikas, which were privately owned.

**DetroitZack** · December-13-09, 06:13 PM

Some old postcards from my collection showing the statues.

**Gistok** · December-14-09, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Those were removed from the roof after WWII because the Nazis had modeled their standards after Roman standards, and the people of the day couldn't handle coming back to see something so Nazi-like on a public building.

It's kinda strange that the standards were removed. After all the Fascists not only used the ancient Roman Standard, but also the Fasces:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fa...itler_mark.jpg

It seems odd that they would remove the Standard from the roof of the building while the every day Mercury dimes of the era had the Roman Fasces on the reverse of the dimes... the other emblem that the Fascists used.

Well I guess I answered my own question.... one is easier to remove than the other...

**davewindsor** · December-14-09, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Lorax

I rather thought the same thing, but the WCB was a civic structure as opposed to the Penobscot and other with swastikas, which were privately owned.

What about the American Eagle on the seal of the United States? That was clearly was taken from the Roman Eagle. The Nazis also used the eagle. Yet, it was never removed. It shouldn't make a difference if it's on a public building or not. There are a ton of symbols and phrases that were borrowed from the Roman empire that didn't get the same treatment, so I just don't see it.

I think the standard was taken down for a more mundane reason. The standard was a top heavy object on a thin pipe that was exposed to weathering for 50+ years. Metal deteriorates. It was probably something as simple as a city engineer or an insurance assessor suggesting it might fall off and needed to be taken down and/or replaced with a new one and they didn't have the money to replace it at that time.

**Rocko** · December-14-09, 12:05 PM

Since it's been several year since they were on their perch, I had forgotten just how large and beautiful the quadrigas really are. I'm glad they left the copper petina exactly as it was - Victory and Progress perfectly match their four smaller cousins, Law, Commerce, Agriculture, and Mechanics, farther up the tower, and the copper roofing elements at the top of the dome. The Wayne County Building is an architectural gem in Detroit.

I think this is the first time in several years that we've seen the exterior of the building complete - no scaffholding, all sculptures in place, etc. Beautiful!

**mauser** · December-14-09, 03:59 PM

Here is a video of the statues being unloaded and put together.

http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=3661

Retroit · December-14-09, 10:07 PM

I drove by tonight and it appears that the two "standard bearers"[[?) are carrying spears. Could not tell whether they were of the Nazi or Roman variety.

**Andrew in Windsor** · December-15-09, 08:44 AM

Here is the Grand Palais in Paris:

Attachment 4342

Attachment 4343

Lorax · December-15-09, 08:48 AM

Already posted the Grand Palais photos on post #16 above.

Any shots of the new "standards?"

**Detroitnerd** · December-17-09, 10:17 AM

Tom Friedman. Ha. It's funny: One internship at the CIA can really help a "journalism" career take off.

**Alexis** · December-17-09, 11:00 AM

The most beautiful building in the city. The statues are probaby the most beautiful bronze I have ever seen.
I am glad this has not fallen prey to the greed of the city's politicians and the wrecking ball that seems to be attatched to them at the hip.

**DetroitHabitater** · December-17-09, 11:57 AM

saw the new 'standards'....meaning spears. They looked ok, better then nothing. It was dark out, sorry I didn't get pictures.

But if the brandenburg gate has the standard, can't we restore them?

Lorax · December-17-09, 05:15 PM

Talented folk like the Venus Bronze works staff can easily replicate the standards, as there are great photos of them out there. Massey Rhind's original drafts for the quadrigas are most likely in existence somewhere, and could be referenced as well.

I think since the restoration and payment for it was long and drawn out, and seemingly contentious at the end, the standards may have been 'downsized' to save money.

I'm in Florida now, and can't see them in person, so I'll look forward to someone else posting a few close ups of the newly installed beauties soon!

**Wintersmommy** · December-17-09, 05:50 PM

I passed by these on the road Saturday morning and i was going to post and ask if anyone knew what they were!!!
Mystery solved

**DetroitZack** · December-17-09, 07:40 PM

I took these 2 pictures today.

**mauser** · December-18-09, 06:40 AM

Sweet !

Lorax - I will take some hires telephoto images next time out and post them on the site. The Sunday that they installed them was pretty nasty weather here so I didnt go. Been hit and miss weatherwise since, so I havent been back yet.

I wish I had known about the replaced standards while I was there, I would have asked the metal smith who was assembling the whips about them..

**mauser** · December-18-09, 06:41 AM

And for those urbexers lurking out there, the Lawyers building is the best vantage point to photograph the sculptures from above.

Lorax · December-18-09, 10:39 AM

Ah, love the lawyer's building as well. It appears vacant and for sale, like much else downtown!

As an aside, wouldn't the lawyer's bldg be a great single-floor loft conversion? Your views of the WCB would be amazing! How many floors there? I think about 8 or 10. If the bldg is reasonable enough, say 5-600k, it would be feasible.

Thanks in advance for posting photos!