Edmund Fitzgerald anniversary

[gnome]

A lifetime ago I found myself teaching Beowolf to a bunch of students who didn't care and didn't understand the import of the oral tradition. To get them to understand how stories become legends and then seep into society's dna, I played the Gordon Lightfoot song. It was just the trick I needed to have the lights in their heads turn on.

[Awfavre]

1KeilsonDrive, as lilpup & John said, the musty old hall in the song referred to the Mariners’ Church, not the sailors’ union hall. Lightfoot wrote the song after reading the Newsweek article, which talked about Father Ingalls ringing the bell for the lost crew.

Second, I think BillyBBrew was referring to the fact the vessel was built in River Rouge, not specifically at the site of Bellanger Park. On that note, however, the Fitz was actually launched in the slip which is now the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club. There’s a beautiful shot of the slip on the club’s home page. http://www.glsbc.com/

Lastly, you can view the Fitz’s lost anchor, to which the rock referred, via the Dossin live webcam at the GLMI website. The webcam link is about half-way down on the right side. http://www.glmi.org/ Once you get to the cam, there’s an option to view the anchor.

[Retroit]

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.

With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early

The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconson
As the big freighters go it was bigger than most
With a crew and the Captain well seasoned.

Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ships bell rang
Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling.

The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the Captain did, too,
T'was the witch of November come stealing.

The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane West Wind

When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it's been good to know ya.

The Captain wired in he had water coming in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went out of sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd fifteen more miles behind her.

They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.

And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered.

In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they say, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.

[jtf1972]

As far as I know, it has to do with the water temperature. And why the 'oh wise one' crap? I'm quoting a song lyric. Go ask Gordon Lightfoot.

Yup. Superior is cold enough that the bodies don't decompose as they would in warmer water. Without bacteria producing air, the bodies stay down & don't float to the surface.

[jjaba]

Good report Rock. Good to see The Rock posting. Nobody in Detroit knows maritime history like The Rock.

Yes, ofcourse, the Lightfoot song refers to Mariners Church. As we know, it was moved during the great urban renewal Civic Center to a few blocks East on E. Jefferson, Downtown Detroit.
1kielsondrive does a nice job with his story of Maritme Union Hall history. Thanks.
jjaba.

[1KielsonDrive]

[quote=Awfavre;88391]1KeilsonDrive, as lilpup & John said, the musty old hall in the song referred to the Mariners’ Church, not the sailors’ union hall. Lightfoot wrote the song after reading the Newsweek article, which talked about Father Ingalls ringing the bell for the lost crew.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________-I'm willing to concede I may be incorrect in my interpretation of that point. Although I've listened to Lightfoot's song a zillion times, and a lot of those times specifically in hopes of clarifying the lyrics, I was never able to be completely sure of his intent. I posted my comments regardless of specific correctness of the hall mentioned in the song, to give a view of the hall and surroundiungs in River Rouge and SW Detroit. All other aspects are correct. I grew up there. I knew people involved at the hall, the bars, the yards, etc. I also frequented those very places I mentioned. In the case of the bars - I too frequented them - ha, ha.

[1KielsonDrive]

[quote=Awfavre;88391]1KeilsonDrive

On that note, however, the Fitz was actually launched in the slip which is now the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club. There’s a beautiful shot of the slip on the club’s home page. http://www.glsbc.com/

Awfavre, on this point, I'm not conceding. The Fitz WAS NOT built and launched in the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club slip, no matter statements to the contrary. That's incorrect. She WAS built and launched at the next slip, immediately south. Satellite it. Her launch site was between the Nicholson Terminal and Dock, where the Bob Lo Boats now sit, and the GLSBC slip. The slip where the Fitz was launched is now home to the Great Lakes Tugs [[G TUGS), which were formerly home ported on the Rouge River, right smack next to the West Jefferson Avenue drawbridge. You can still see the rails of the cranes along side the launch site. I was at the Fitz's launch and either the Jackson or the Homer, which were the last boats built at Great Lakes Engineering Works. I grew up three blocks away. I was also a member of GLSBC for most of my young life. Eligibility for membership in Great Lakes Steel Management Boat Club, as it was called back then, was being a manager at GLS. My family was not in management. But my father, a business owner and lifelong citizen of River Rouge, pulled strings to get us a well. I remember our neighbor who was president and got us in. Some of my closest friends, including those involved in running the Rouge Historical Museum, were also members and boat owners. GLEW did include the slip where the GLSBC is now located. According to old timers I spoke to as I grew up, that's where smaller ships were built, particularly during WWII. There was evidence of it's shipbuilding heritage even when I was a member - large chains and turnbuckles in the ground next to the wells. I often walked to the shipyards and GLSBC. As a youth, I co-owned, with my dad, brother-in-law and friends, numerous boats. Which were, for most part, kept at GLSBC and/or in Lewiston, MI.

[BillyBBrew]

Awfarve is correct. I was referring to the City of River Rouge, not Bellanger Park specifically. [[as the building/launch site). With all due respect to 1Kielson, I've looked at many photos of the launch site and the dock itself from my boat and I do not believe the Fitz was launched in the GLT slip. The dock in the launch pics is a sheet metal dock, and the GLT slip is all concrete. I also don't see the correct configuration for the rail cranes. However, I was not there and things do change, so I'm glad to have new info to give me something to research further. I had always heard it was the GLSBC slip it was launched in as well.....Either way, GLT's slip was definately part of the shipyard!

[Novine]

According to what I've read, she was bound for Zug Island, not Cleveland as the lyrics state. But Zug Island doesn't roll off the tongue like Cleveland does. What's the real story?

[1KielsonDrive]

Awfarve is correct. I was referring to the City of River Rouge, not Bellanger Park specifically. [[as the building/launch site). With all due respect to 1Kielson, I've looked at many photos of the launch site and the dock itself from my boat and I do not believe the Fitz was launched in the GLT slip. The dock in the launch pics is a sheet metal dock, and the GLT slip is all concrete. I also don't see the correct configuration for the rail cranes. However, I was not there and things do change, so I'm glad to have new info to give me something to research further. I had always heard it was the GLSBC slip it was launched in as well.....Either way, GLT's slip was definately part of the shipyard!

Billy, on most things related to Great Lakes Shipping, etc, I'd defer to you for one reason : you live the life NOW. There are a number of reasons why I won't defer to you on this one : #1. I was there. I lived the life THEN - many times while ships we're discussing were being built and launched. #2. I've been back many times in the ensuing years, including recently. #3. I'll walk you blindfolded around that whole area - Nicholson Terminal and Dock [[which I worked at during my teens), the site of the former Dana Corporation and Murray Body, Lipsett Steel [[look that one up), the sulphur ponds [[where we used to skate), old and new Belanger Parks, named after my family's doctor - Henry. His son, Ernest E. was my neighbor, employer, friend and doctor from birth to early 20's. #4. I played in what we called the 'Marsh' [[it was the Rouge kids equivalent of the back forty), about a lake freighter's length from the GLEW gates. I could see ships sitting there. The railroad tracks - we played there. I docked my boats at GLSBC for many years. #5. Not one person, no one, until now, has ever asserted to me that GLSBC was the launch site, including people who worked at GLEW. #6. Look at pictures of the Fitz being built. You can see landmarks that aren't obvious to younger or unfamiliar persons. I can point those out to you. The most important one was just demolished in the last 7 or 8 years - the Engineering Building. Not too long before it's demolition, I spoke with people both you and I know. They indicated the E Bldg and launch site might become part of a marina to be gifted to River Rouge. It's now gone and that area is gated. That building sat directly at the foot of Great Lakes Avenue. Not to the left, not to the north [[where the GLSBC is located) but right at the foot of Great Lakes Avenue. I remember walking right up to that gate, as a kid, and passing through it hundreds of times in the years since. The first time I ever heard what even slightly sounded like an assertion the GLSBC was the launch site is in a book I just finished a couple of weeks ago : S.S.Edmund Fitzgerald. Requiem For The Toledo Express. A Search For Truth. Raymond Ramsey M.Sc. It's a must read for Edmund Fitz and Great Lakes Shipping fans. Eccentric, unusally written, poorly edited, but fascinating nonetheless. Ramsay worked on the Fitz. He contends she was poorly maintained for operational profits. He also points fingers. He worked at GLEW with a long ago friend of mine who was the hull engineer for the Fitz. A caption of a picture in his book seems to suggest, if I remember correctly, the GLSBC [[yacht club as he calls it) was the launch site.

[1KielsonDrive]

But Zug Island doesn't roll off the tongue like Cleveland does. [/quote]
That probably tells the whole story right there.

[old guy]

Here's the actual launching, I believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AWLNGJQ9Kc

[jcole]

Here's a website with a ton of info on the Fitz. It's kind of disjointed, but if you poke around it tells the story:
http://www.tv17.org/

[gazhekwe]

Someone up there mentioned the sinking of the Daniel J. Morrell. I have shivers running up my back just thinking of it. The anniversary of that one is coming up on November 29 [[1966).

We were privileged to hear the lone survivor, Dennis Hale, speak at a Great Lakes Shipwreck Society dinner in April, 1981. He told the most riveting first hand story I have ever heard. Details were stark and clear. You could hear the wind screaming and see the snow swirling. Eerily, though it was April 4, I think, and the snow was all melted, with the daytime temperature in the 40s, a blizzard blew up suddenly, and the wind was howling and snow was beating against the windows of the banquet room as he spoke.

Some of the details -- the boat broke in half, and the front half sank after Dennis Hale and three others had gotten off on a life raft. Hale had on only his underwear and a lifejacket, as he had been in bed. As the back half of the Morrell sailed by, Hale could see the oiler standing in a doorway with his oilcan in his hand. During the night, the three others on the raft died from the cold. He said he was talking to the man nearest him, and the man looked at him, coughed, and died. Hale was alone. He didn't know if there were any other survivors. He drifted ashore in the late evening on a beach surmounted by a high bluff. On top of the bluff, he could see the lights of a house, but he could not move. He watched those lights until they went out.

Feeling very lonely, he began to realize he was thirsty. He started eating snow that was crusted on his jacket. Suddenly, there was an old man there in front of him, with long white hair and beard. The man told him, 'Don't eat the snow. You'll lower your body temperature and die.' Hale thought about that man all night. Who was he? Did he get help? Was he even real? He finally started to eat the snow again, and the man came back. He said, 'I told you not to eat the snow. You'll lower your body temperature and die.' After that, Hale did not eat any snow. It finally got light, and some time later, he was found after 38 hours. He had some frostbite on his feet and legs but was in good condition otherwise.

After the talk, he signed a painting I have of the Daniel J. Morrelll, and I still have it on my wall today.

PS. I am going to make a post about woman power over on the Paging Gazhekwe thread if anyone is interested.

[BillyBBrew]

1Kielson, I actually was not disputing what you say. I am curious about this conflict. As I said, the part that confuses me the most [[and I did go back and look at my launch photos in detail) is that the dock where the GLT tugs are at is concrete and appears to always have been so. The dock visible in the launch pics in the same spot is all steel sheeting. I would love to take a drive down there and have a bite of lunch and have you show me these things. I always thought the same thing you were saying about the launch site until someone told me differently. Let's do it, you know how to reach me....

[ChickenSoupForTheDee]

Thin personal connection. The USCGC Woodrush was involved in the search. I reported aboard a couple of years later. Superior is an ocean, and it can get cold, dark, rough, and lonely out there. More than once our clinometer went "past the point of no return". We never capsized, but it sure felt like it. If you have to die, I can't think of a better way to go. Prayers for all the sailors and the loved ones they left behind. I still remember all the wives and kids and girlfriends waving us good-bye at the park by the Duluth lift bridge. Thank God we always came back.

[MikeM]

The Fitz WAS NOT built and launched in the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club slip, no matter statements to the contrary. That's incorrect. She WAS built and launched at the next slip, immediately south. Satellite it. Her launch site was between the Nicholson Terminal and Dock, where the Bob Lo Boats now sit, and the GLSBC slip.

I agree. Looking at the construction and launch pictures, and comparing detail in the background with aerial photos from the era, I'd say you are correct. The slip was the middle one, directly at the foot of Great Lakes Street.

[Awfavre]

Once upon a time, BillyBBrew & others originally told me the GLEW launch slip is the one where the G-tugs currently reside, at the foot of Great Lakes Street. Armed with this info, several years back around the time of the 30th Anniversary of the Fitz’s sinking, I arranged for a Fitz family member to visit the slip. It took many letters & signed liability releases.

I was very proud of my efforts to allow the family member to see where it all began. One day, I mentioned my endeavor to former Dossin Great Lakes Museum Curator John Polacsek. He mentioned the slip was the one at the Boat Club. I was stunned & queried him hard: could he be sure? He smiled his Cheshire Cat Smile & said yes, it was a common misperception that the G-tugs slip was the launch slip.

So, the day of the family member’s visit came, & I explained the conundrum to her. We decided to go, anyway. When we got to the G-tugs slip, we saw the chained gate protecting a shortcut to the Boat Club property. You could see the Boat Club slip right there, just on the other side of some trees & bushes. A Boatnerd, & hence not one to let NO TRESPASSING signs or dense brush deter me, we crawled under the gate & through the flora, then walked all around the slip. Eventually, we were met by Boat Club Who-Hahs, who challenged our unscheduled visit. Needless to say, their demeanor thawed when the family member explained her purpose. They affirmed Mr. Polacsek’s statement about the launch slip being the one at the Boat Club.

Now, anyone can make a claim about what their boat club slip did or didn’t do at one time or another, but Mr. Polacsek knows more about Detroit’s maritime history than all of us on this forum put together. I’m betting he’s the one who’s correct. If anyone wants to disagree, feel free. [[As an aside, if I can ever find the bloody photos I took that day, I’ll post them in an album to share.)

As for the Lightfoot song, 1KielsonDrive, you can believe whatever you want, which is why such songs are so powerful. My interpretation is based on what I’ve read & what various speakers have said at all the many Fitz memorials, including Father Ingalls at the Mariners’ Church services. I’d like to say the family member told me Mr. Lightfoot told her when they met he was referring to the Mariners’ Church, but I cannot recall for certain.

[MikeM]

Just because a curator is a curator doesn't mean he hasn't been given bad information and perpetuated it ever since. Memories are often faulty, but Kielson's experiences seem very convincing, especially when compared to photographic evidence.

In this photo, taken looking west from bow to stern of the early stages of the keel, the stack and tanks in the background are north of Great Lakes St. The boat is being built south of the southern slip at the foot of Great Lakes Street, and a floating dry-dock is in the slip itself:

http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzabuildd.htm


Same here, only now a self-unloader is in the slip:

http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzbuild35.htm


In this launch photo, you can see spectators on top of a dry-dock in the northern slip, where the boat club is now:

http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzlaunchg.htm


The Fitz was the largest boat built there. Aerial photos from the era show larger boats being built or serviced in the larger southern slip.

There probably aren't a lot of people who care, but if you're interested in accuracy or bragging rights, the misinformation should be corrected.

[old guy]

That's an incredible set of photos of the building of the Fitzgerald. Amazing how they shaped the steel of the hull.

[1KielsonDrive]

A lifetime ago I found myself teaching Beowolf to a bunch of students who didn't care and didn't understand the import of the oral tradition. To get them to understand how stories become legends and then seep into society's dna, I played the Gordon Lightfoot song. It was just the trick I needed to have the lights in their heads turn on.

Gnome, isn't that the best darn thing when you manage, intentionally or otherwise, to find a way to click that light bulb on. I always hope for that affect/effect. I experienced it so many times in my life.

[1KielsonDrive]

Someone up there mentioned the sinking of the Daniel J. Morrell. I have shivers running up my back just thinking of it. The anniversary of that one is coming up on November 29 [[1966).

We were privileged to hear the lone survivor, Dennis Hale, speak at a Great Lakes Shipwreck Society dinner in April, 1981. He told the most riveting first hand story I have ever heard. Details were stark and clear. You could hear the wind screaming and see the snow swirling. Eerily, though it was April 4, I think, and the snow was all melted, with the daytime temperature in the 40s, a blizzard blew up suddenly, and the wind was howling and snow was beating against the windows of the banquet room as he spoke.

Some of the details -- the boat broke in half, and the front half sank after Dennis Hale and three others had gotten off on a life raft. Hale had on only his underwear and a lifejacket, as he had been in bed. As the back half of the Morrell sailed by, Hale could see the oiler standing in a doorway with his oilcan in his hand. During the night, the three others on the raft died from the cold. He said he was talking to the man nearest him, and the man looked at him, coughed, and died. Hale was alone. He didn't know if there were any other survivors. He drifted ashore in the late evening on a beach surmounted by a high bluff. On top of the bluff, he could see the lights of a house, but he could not move. He watched those lights until they went out.

Feeling very lonely, he began to realize he was thirsty. He started eating snow that was crusted on his jacket. Suddenly, there was an old man there in front of him, with long white hair and beard. The man told him, 'Don't eat the snow. You'll lower your body temperature and die.' Hale thought about that man all night. Who was he? Did he get help? Was he even real? He finally started to eat the snow again, and the man came back. He said, 'I told you not to eat the snow. You'll lower your body temperature and die.' After that, Hale did not eat any snow. It finally got light, and some time later, he was found after 38 hours. He had some frostbite on his feet and legs but was in good condition otherwise.

After the talk, he signed a painting I have of the Daniel J. Morrelll, and I still have it on my wall today.

PS. I am going to make a post about woman power over on the Paging Gazhekwe thread if anyone is interested.

Thanks Gazhekwe. That's a great story and one of the main reasons I read and post at DY.

[1KielsonDrive]

1Kielson, I actually was not disputing what you say. I am curious about this conflict. As I said, the part that confuses me the most [[and I did go back and look at my launch photos in detail) is that the dock where the GLT tugs are at is concrete and appears to always have been so. The dock visible in the launch pics in the same spot is all steel sheeting. I would love to take a drive down there and have a bite of lunch and have you show me these things. I always thought the same thing you were saying about the launch site until someone told me differently. Let's do it, you know how to reach me....

BillyBBrew, don't worry about it even if you are disputing me. We have a nice dialogue going here. This is learning time. Even if I feel absolutely certain about some things in my life, I've learned that I may have some things wrong or distorted. I don't believe it's the case here, but I have to review all of things I've thought about this, since my childhood, to feel confident I have it correct. My emphasis in posting is often just that - attempting to be emphatic and not calling anyone out. It's often difficult to express emotions [[excitement, disappointment) in emails and posts.

[1KielsonDrive]

Just because a curator is a curator doesn't mean he hasn't been given bad information and perpetuated it ever since. Memories are often faulty, but Kielson's experiences seem very convincing, especially when compared to photographic evidence.

In this photo, taken looking west from bow to stern of the early stages of the keel, the stack and tanks in the background are south of Great Lakes St. The boat is being built south of the southern slip at the foot of Great Lakes Street, and a floating dry-dock is in the slip itself:

http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzabuildd.htm


Same here, only now a self-unloader is in the slip:

http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzbuild35.htm


In this launch photo, you can see spectators on top of a dry-dock in the northern slip, where the boat club is now:

http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzlaunchg.htm


The Fitz was the largest boat built there. Aerial photos from the era show larger boats being built or serviced in the larger southern slip.

There probably aren't a lot of people who care, but if you're interested in accuracy or bragging rights, the misinformation should be corrected.

Thank you MikeM. You're very first photo link proves my point. I've seen that photo many times. It's one of the photos that put the whole thing into perspective for me over the years, in addition to my memories. I'll walk anyone down Great Lakes Avenue and if we can get past the No Trespassing signs without being arrested and charged [[the judge in Rouge is a close friend - he might have mercy on us), I'll stand you on the ground where that photo was taken. Look closely - the tanks in the upper right behind the smokestack are on the north side of Great Lakes Avenue, across the railroad tracks. Our swampy playground, or the 'Marsh', as we Rouge kids called it, is right next to those tanks - west. Satellite it! You'll see the tanks are still in the same location. To get to the GLSBC, you come across the tracks and go left [[right in the photo) and follow the road around to the GLSBC. I rest my case unless someone feels the need to be walked through this. If that's the case - you have to buy beers and lunch at the Zenith in Rouge. I'll invite the judge in case our lunch is interrupted by the gendarmes.

[1KielsonDrive]

[quote=Awfavre;88745]

One day, I mentioned my endeavor to former Dossin Great Lakes Museum Curator John Polacsek. He mentioned the slip was the one at the Boat Club. I was stunned & queried him hard: could he be sure? He smiled his Cheshire Cat Smile & said yes, it was a common misperception that the G-tugs slip was the launch slip.
Eventually, we were met by Boat Club Who-Hahs They affirmed Mr. Polacsek’s statement about the launch slip being the one at the Boat Club.

Now, anyone can make a claim about what their boat club slip did or didn’t do at one time or another, but Mr. Polacsek knows more about Detroit’s maritime history than all of us on this forum put together. I’m betting he’s the one who’s correct.
Response from 1KD : One day I was on the Detroit River with a very wise old captain of a private yacht. One of our guests asked about a building on the American shore. Our captain, whom I seldom ever doubted, replied what the building was. He was wrong. I knew exactly what the building was and later proved it. Captain knew more about the river in his youth than I'll know in my entire life. But he was wrong on that one. He wouldn't admit it and I didn't push it. I admired his experience and knowledge and wanted to enjoy my cruises with him for as long as possible. John from the Dossin, whom I've spoken to many times over the years, is a huge wealth of knowledge about the Great Lakes and shipping. He's wrong on this one. It happens. It doesn't lessen my admiration of him. I've known [[and still know) a lot of the GLSBC Who-Hahs. Some of them are the kids and grandkids of people I knew all of my life. I might speculate they like the 'idea' of bragging that their boat club is the home of the Fitz. Just speculation. They're wrong. Why not let them have their fun?