Rose Terrace

lilpup · December-04-09, 01:57 PM

You're right, that makes sense, but what had confused me is that there is a separate named Swell division. If I recall correctly there were four pedals so more that just the Swell division must have been enclosed with shutters but I don't know which ones. Along with Swell I think there are Great, Crescendo, and ? pedals.

There were 29 couplers, over 80 stops, and over 4,000 pipes. The lengths of the windchests holding the pipe ranks typically ran 8 or 16 feet, though a few were 4 feet and two were only 2 feet. It was one of the biggest organs in the state.

The console number was 1319 according to a handwritten note on the stop list.

The 7 divisions were:

Great
Swell
Choir
Solo
Antiphonal
Echo
Pedal

According to the little write-up in one program, at Rose Terrace three of the divisions were stacked, reaching a height of three floors, and the other four divisions and console were in separate rooms, with the sound being piped over to the ballroom.

**rb336** · December-04-09, 03:20 PM

The rose terrace was done by an architect named Trumbauer, I think. I also think there is a book about his work

**56packman** · December-04-09, 07:19 PM

Lilpup-- the Rose Terrace organ was probably all "under expression" meaning that all the divisions were in chambers with shutters--that was the mansion way, as well as some church organs and all theatre organs built then.
The nomenclature regarding length does not apply ot the windchest, but rather the pipes. a pipe that produces a pitch the same frequency as middle C on the piano is called an "8 foot" stop because the lowest pipe in the set [[middle C) is 8' long, in round numbers, + or - a few inches.
one octive below is a 16' stop, one octave above middle C is 4', two above is 2'.
The Rose Terrace instrument, and its sister-in-law, the Meadow Brook hall organ are what are commonly called "8 foot monsters" by today's players, there was a lot of stops at that pitch, a few 16' stops, a few 4' & 2', tons of 8'.
The Aeolians also had their own pseudo-orchestral nomenclature, lots of "String PP" [[very soft) "String MF" [[middle volume) and trumpet F [[somewhat loud) and lots and lots of duplication throughout. They really were Muzak machines for the manor homes, the owners did not want a bright or loud tone, and often times they spoke through heavy velvet drapes, which did no favors to the sound. But that is what Mr. and Mrs. Gotrocks wanted, to put a roll on [[they were all self-playing, a sort of 18 ton jukebox) and have a nice, low rumble. The Rose Terrace Aeolian in the Northwest Baptist church was a nice suprise, it spoke right out those modernistic wooden grilles and had some top end on it.

lilpup · December-04-09, 08:41 PM

Soo...this list, which I think is a stop list, indicates the length of the longest pipe in the rank and those items without numbers are non-pipe [[e.g. tremolo) or are probably the intermediate or mix style stops.

There are 5 2-foot, 12 4ft, 50 8ft, and 26 16ft [[18 of them in the Pedal) listed.

**56packman** · December-04-09, 09:14 PM

Sounds about right re: the number of each "footage". The ones without footage markings are either tremolo, wich is a "modifier", producing a mild vibrato to what stops are drawn, there are also percussions like harp [[not really a harp but a celestia sort of instrument) and chimes, they are not marked with footages normally. There are couplers across the back straight rail of the console, those couple manuals to each other, manuals to themselves an octive up or down to make the sound bigger, fuller.

**RoseTerrace** · June-21-10, 05:14 PM

"Rose Terrace" on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8t7GyK7Ymo
There are four total videos to watch. Link above is part 1 off 3. ECHOES OF SPLENDOR - THE DODGE MANSION, A TOUR OF ROSE TERRACE. WWJ-TV{old channel 4} with Ted Russell c. 1971. Split into three parts because of YouTube rules - ten minutes max for each upload. View it in full screen to fully appreciate Anna Dodge's masterpiece at its best before the wrecking ball did its work. The fourth video is a copulation of any and all photos with informative text set to music. In order to cram it all in some of the photos might go by quicker then you have time to absorb - just pause - and see rare photos dating back to 1938. It would be great if anyone that has been to Rose Terrace to leave a comment about what they remember for posterity. Have a piece from Rose Terrace? Part of the decorative facade or one of the six hundred or so silk lampshades? It would be interesting to track how far these objects have traveled. Either way - enjoy the movie!

lilpup · June-21-10, 05:26 PM

I know someone who has a bunch of photos from just before the place was torn down. I don't know if they're all of the organ and its installation or if they're of the entire mansion. If you are interested I can try to get them and scan them for you.

**RoseTerrace** · June-21-10, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

I know someone who has a bunch of photos from just before the place was torn down. I don't know if they're all of the organ and its installation or if they're of the entire mansion. If you are interested I can try to get them and scan them for you.

Oh yes - thank you. I hope this YouTube series introduces more people to the story of Rose terrace and the people involved in creating it. The organ is featured in the Ted Russell documentary.

**Packman41** · June-21-10, 09:34 PM

Hello:

Below is a photo of the Rose Terrace Garage in 1938. Yes and those are Packards, not Dodges. The one to the left is a 1934, 12 cylinder, sedan. The one in the middle is a 1938, 12 cylinder limosine and the one to the right is a 1938, 12 cylinder town car where the roof over the driver retracts into the car.

i do not know the location of the 1934 car, but a friend of mine purchased both the 1938s at an estate sale about 5 years ago in barn-fresh, unrestored condition. Photos of those cars are shown below, too.

Enjoy.

**GOAT** · June-22-10, 12:29 PM

A friend of mine has two Louis XVI chairs from the Delphine along with Horrace's signature ring.

**GOAT** · June-22-10, 12:38 PM

As an aside from stories told Horace was notallowed to walk on the rug up the staircase but instead had to walk beside it. Old Anna had her ways.

**Gistok** · June-22-10, 04:53 PM

When you compare the fact that the Edsel & Eleanor Ford house has only 60 rooms, hearing that Rose Terrace had 240 rooms makes it all the sadder that that larger mansion was torn down.

**RoseTerrace** · June-23-10, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

When you compare the fact that the Edsel & Eleanor Ford house has only 60 rooms, hearing that Rose Terrace had 240 rooms makes it all the sadder that that larger mansion was torn down.

240? My information shows 70-rooms. Shame none-the-less.

**RoseTerrace** · June-23-10, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by GOAT

As an aside from stories told Horace was notallowed to walk on the rug up the staircase but instead had to walk beside it. Old Anna had her ways.

In the Ted Russell piece he speaks of this carpet saving technique.

**RoseTerrace** · June-23-10, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by GOAT

A friend of mine has two Louis XVI chairs from the Delphine along with Horrace's signature ring.

I spent a summer aboard the Delphine, at that time it was called Dauntless.

**RoseTerrace** · June-23-10, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Packman41

Hello:

Below is a photo of the Rose Terrace Garage in 1938. Yes and those are Packards, not Dodges. The one to the left is a 1934, 12 cylinder, sedan. The one in the middle is a 1938, 12 cylinder limosine and the one to the right is a 1938, 12 cylinder town car where the roof over the driver retracts into the car.

i do not know the location of the 1934 car, but a friend of mine purchased both the 1938s at an estate sale about 5 years ago in barn-fresh, unrestored condition. Photos of those cars are shown below, too.

Enjoy.

In the Christies sales brochure lot #1108 -

"A Packard twelve cylinder engine and attached transmission of late 1930's vintage. Obviously in used condition, this engine may have fitted a marine application at one time. Externally this engine appears sound although internal condition is unknown, Several minor exterior components have been removed."

Thanks for sharing the photos.

**DecoJim** · June-23-10, 12:34 PM

Interesting discussion...

The April 7, 1996 Detroit News article about Sunday Drives mentions the mansion as having 42 rooms AND 20 bathrooms.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=98

The June 24, 2000 Detroit News article about Anna Dodge which includes a partial description of the rooms on each floor.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=97

The article mentioned previously about Horace Dodge' purchase of Catherine the Great's five strand pearl necklace for $825,000 also mentions that the 2nd Rose Terrace had 50,000 square feet [[the 1st was torn down to make way for the 2nd one). That size would put it about 11th on Wikipedia's list of largest historic homes in America if it had not been demolished.

**RoseTerrace** · June-24-10, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by DecoJim

Interesting discussion...

The April 7, 1996 Detroit News article about Sunday Drives mentions the mansion as having 42 rooms AND 20 bathrooms.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=98

The June 24, 2000 Detroit News article about Anna Dodge which includes a partial description of the rooms on each floor.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=97

The article mentioned previously about Horace Dodge' purchase of Catherine the Great's five strand pearl necklace for $825,000 also mentions that the 2nd Rose Terrace had 50,000 square feet [[the 1st was torn down to make way for the 2nd one). That size would put it about 11th on Wikipedia's list of largest historic homes in America if it had not been demolished.

Full history of the necklace -
http://www.internetstones.com/anna-t...-necklace.html

70-room count comes from the DIA book. I would guess if you added every nook and closet you could easily get to 240.

**RoseTerrace** · June-26-10, 10:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEiGPENY9rY - Link to part two "Rose "Terrace" The Anna Dodge Estate.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/searc...mplete&rows=20 Link to auction site that has history on some of the furnishings from Rose Terrace. Paneling, beds, curtains, wall scones etc. btw - Not everything thing shown came from Rose Terrace.

**Neilr** · November-20-10, 01:11 PM

Next month, DuMouchelle's wil be auctioning four large carved marble allegorical sculptures that were removed from Rose Terrace.

http://www.dumouchelle.com/#view=0

For example:

**Gistok** · November-20-10, 01:20 PM

IIRC, I got the Rose Terrace 240 room count from the YOUTUBE videos referenced above...

**txlady** · November-23-10, 12:20 AM

I graduated from Oakland U, and frequently went to Meadowbrook Hall for various functions. There's a picture, a daughter I believe, as you first walk in that everyone in my family [[and friends) thinks looks just like me. She's 50 years older than me, I believe she's on a horse.

Meadowbrook itself is beautiful, the first new car I ever bought I drove out there, all dressed up, and had a friend take pics of me and it. I never saw Rose Hall, but always envied that someone could live in as beautiful a place as the campus in Rochester.

**Bud656** · November-23-10, 01:52 PM

I wanted to add my information on Rose Terrace. I have been interested in Rose Terrace since as long as I can remember. I have been inside the house on Four occasions. First, on a general tour before the auction in 1971. Then for a dance put on my Planned Parenhood in 1974 after the house was sold to a developer. Then a year later took a tour with the new owner. And last at the auction of the house it self in 1970 before it was torn down. I also have the original Sales Brochure for the house. I still have it after all these years. The house was put up for sale in 1971. I can give you some of the information on the house from the brochure:
1. The asking price was $ 1,250.000, in 1971.
2. The first floor had 7 main rooms at 11,970 sq. ft.
3. The second floor had 12 main rooms at 10,078 sq. ft.
4. The third floor had 19 main rooms at 6,454 sq. ft.
5. The basement had 4 main rooms at 13,784 sq. ft.
The total sq. ft. of all four floors was 42,286 sq. ft.
The house was finished in 1934, and cost $4,000,000 for the house less the furnishings.
The largest room in the house was the Music Room, 36 x 60
Taxes in 1970 were $37,683.
There were other misc. rooms, closets, storage rooms, etc.
The brochure I have shows the floor plans for all the floors.

Additional information on issues giving the house to DIA. The then Mayor of Detroit, Mayor Cavinagh, was invited to the house by Mrs. Dodge to inform him that she was prepared to give the house and its contents to the DIA along with, two million dollars. The Mayor told Mrs Dodge that he would not accept the house unless she gave Ten Million Dollars for upkeep.
She said no and instead gave the contents of the Music Room to the DIA and then Two Million for the Dodge Fountain. If anyone would like more information, let me know.

**RoseTerrace** · November-23-10, 05:22 PM

Photos to share? You have floor plans for basement? Did you see the Ice Cream Making Room? I'm particularly interested in the "back room" areas of the house - kitchen, prep areas and such. Servant's metal bedroom furniture was suppose to have had a certain green color - do you remember the shade? What ever you can share here would be great!

**Bud656** · November-23-10, 06:47 PM

I don't have any Photos to share other than the ones posted on this form. Yes, I have a layout of all 4 floors, including the basement. Nothing really special about the basement. It did have a cold room and a ice cream room next to the Kitchen. The ice cream room was 15 x 7.5 and the cold room was 15 x 71.2. They were next to the kitchen which was 25 x 26.3, a very large room as I remember. Something interesting about the heating system. The house was heated with oil boilers then thru a forced air system. There were grills in the floor underneath just about all the 42, French windows 14 foot high on the first floor. [[The ceilings on the 1st floor were 18 feet high). There were no return grills in the house. Outside air was drawn in from grills outside near the South terrace and forced over steam radiators in the furnace room then sent to all the rooms. The positive pressure in the house forced the air up the 15 fireplaces to give a nice fire. Air was also forced out cracks or any openings in the windows to prevent cold air from coming in. One could stand near any of the windows and there would not be a draft. The house was not air conditioned. There was a 10,000 gallon oil tank under the front lawn to feed the furnace. Thought this was some interesting information on the house.