Rose Terrace

**RoseTerrace** · October-04-09, 11:47 AM

Hello. I'm looking to chat with anyone that might be willing to pass on information and photos of the Anna Dodge Dillman estate "Rose Terrace". I have exhausted my Google searches and have found this site to have the most current posts about the subject. So far I've seen a VHS tape narrated by Anna's son{??} - he speaks of "ma-ma" - met at the gate by the butler. He goes on to give a cheesy dialog tour of the house. The place is fully furnished, right before the big sale. I have the Trumbauer book, read some older newspaper articles over the web, visited a few city historical websites and know of the DIA connection. I found a few photos from this site showing the exterior and the garage. I'm hoping someone would have photos of the more obscure areas like the kitchen and other service areas. To my understanding a balustrade garden wall and stairs are the only original physical remains. The organ is at a nearby Baptists church??? I spent the summer aboard the SS Delphine many years ago when it was called the Dauntless and have a vague memory of seeing a Travel Section article from the Sunday Detroit News about a Designer Showcase at the place?? Were else can I look ?? Thanks for your time.

Lorax · October-04-09, 12:28 PM

Having been raised in Grosse Pointe, I am quite familiar with the property, and have been priviliged enough to have enjoyed visiting Rose Terrace in my youth.

I was present at the Christie's auction in 1971, still have my catalogue, and own several items from the sale. I met Gertrude Draves, Mrs. Dodge's secretary, Florence Sisman, her "keeper" confidante in her later years.

The gentleman in the video you saw was a local Detroit news reporter who was hired to do a walk-through tour of the house before it was stripped- things going to the DIA and others readied for auction.

I was also present for the demolition auction in 1976 held by Stalker & Boos- I recall the rolled copper roofing sold for 300 bucks.

What information are you looking for exactly? Is is for research purposes?

I will dig out a few photos you may be able to use.

**RoseTerrace** · October-04-09, 02:01 PM

Thanks for the reply. I would like to create a web repository of all the available material on Rose Terrace. I've done something similar for Winfield Hall, the FW Woolworth estate, on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xgJHbOEZS4 There are three videos to watch. This is about posterity and enlightenment for others who don't know about the history of Rose Terrace. I would love to see anything you have. Demolition photos? Are there archives with original photos somewhere? Thanks

lilpup · October-04-09, 05:47 PM

The organ went to what was then Northwestern Baptist Church, which was on 10 Mile just east of Evergreen [[right across the street for Fieger's office). That church has since been sold with the organ going to the new owners. Whether or not they still have it or are using it I do not know. Northwestern restructured and is now Wellspring Church on Eight Mile in Farmington. You might contact them and see if there's someone there available to look for what information they have.

My mom was the organist at Northwestern and loved having such a beautiful instrument.

Lorax · October-04-09, 10:07 PM

The organ console was in a small area off the entrance hall at Rose Terrace- it was originally installed in the first Rose Terrace- a stone, English Cotswold style Albert Kahn designed home on the same site, which was pulled down around 1929 to begin construction of the much larger residence.

Horace Dodge was fond of the pipe organ, and Anna was trained as a pianist, and enjoyed organ music. The organ was the only item saved from the original home and incorporated into the new one.

The DIA until recently owned Francois Boucher's cartoon tapestry of Psyche displaying her treasures, which was used as a buffer to hide the opening in the wall of the music room where the sound for this great organ would eminate.

In fact, just in the last few years the DIA has divested itself of items bequeathed by Anna Dodge to benefit the general fund, which in my view was a mistake, since the idea should have been to incorporate these items into a reconstructed scale model of the music room, where most of the items currently on display were originally located.

Gone are the set of four Maison Bagues crystal chandeliers, Savonnerie carpet, and the four gilt cabinets that held the collection of royal Sevres porcelain- items designed for the room in the early 30's, and commissioned through the famed Parisian decorating firm of L. Alavoine & Company.

The tapestry was sold as well, sadly, which goes to show that even an odd 40 years after the original bequest, there is no control over the donation of items to museums.

Here's a few photos to help in your research, some you may have seen already-

http://www.gphistorical.org/autobarons/dodge/index.htm

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...2&PIpi=3496573

**RoseTerrace** · October-05-09, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

The organ console was in a small area off the entrance hall at Rose Terrace- it was originally installed in the first Rose Terrace- a stone, English Cotswold style Albert Kahn designed home on the same site, which was pulled down around 1929 to begin construction of the much larger residence.

Horace Dodge was fond of the pipe organ, and Anna was trained as a pianist, and enjoyed organ music. The organ was the only item saved from the original home and incorporated into the new one.

The DIA until recently owned Francois Boucher's cartoon tapestry of Psyche displaying her treasures, which was used as a buffer to hide the opening in the wall of the music room where the sound for this great organ would eminate.

In fact, just in the last few years the DIA has divested itself of items bequeathed by Anna Dodge to benefit the general fund, which in my view was a mistake, since the idea should have been to incorporate these items into a reconstructed scale model of the music room, where most of the items currently on display were originally located.

Gone are the set of four Maison Bagues crystal chandeliers, Savonnerie carpet, and the four gilt cabinets that held the collection of royal Sevres porcelain- items designed for the room in the early 30's, and commissioned through the famed Parisian decorating firm of L. Alavoine & Company.

The tapestry was sold as well, sadly, which goes to show that even an odd 40 years after the original bequest, there is no control over the donation of items to museums.

Here's a few photos to help in your research, some you may have seen already-

http://www.gphistorical.org/autobarons/dodge/index.htm

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...2&PIpi=3496573

Except for the "pearls" I found all the other links through my Google searches. I find your stories on the DIA intriguing and sad. Was this done quietly? Did her taste{Anna's/Duveen's} hold value and bring a lot of money for the DIA? Anything else you can offer as time allows would be appreciated.

Lorax · October-05-09, 01:19 PM

The deaccessioning was done quietly, through auction, the Bagues chandeliers from the music room brought a combined 250,000.00. The total take was somewhere around the 600,000 figure.

As for the value of what Anna Dodge bought through Duveen Brothers, it's generally accepted that she was charged far more than the items were worth at the time, though by the time of her death, and certainly today, the same items are many times as valuable as they were during the Depression.

The quality level, arguably was finer than had ever been assembled under one roof in the last 150 years. That Detroit had the chance to convert Rose Terrace into a house museum, regardless of any endowment that was not forthcoming from the estate is miraculous unto itself.

If the DIA had been forward thinking enough at the time, they would have done everything imaginable, including selling some works, fundraising, even holding bake sales wouldn't have been beneath them to raise the endowment to properly house the collection. It's a scenario that will never happen again, and indeed a missed opportunity.

I've always been of the opinion that when someone offers you a gift, you graciously accept it, and if that gift comes with a maintenance fee, you do what you can to make it work.

**RoseTerrace** · October-05-09, 01:19 PM

First I would like to say thank you for all that have replied so far. Being a new member here I feel I should ask permission to use this site and thread for all the Rose Terrace information? If your were to Google Rose Terrace you find that this site is the only site that seems to get hits with the tidbits of current posts. All the other searches are the links Lorax{thanks again} has posted. If this could be the thread that over time can grow with what ever information is out there........ Its been over thirty years now at the information about the place is fading away. Thanks

**RoseTerrace** · October-06-09, 08:31 AM

Find Rose Terrace at wikimapia.org http://wikimapia.org/#lat=42.3855013...2/Rose-Terrace - Check the link to HistoricAerials.com to see a 1973 overhead shot of Rose Terrace.

**RoseTerrace** · October-10-09, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by RoseTerrace

Except for the "pearls" I found all the other links through my Google searches. I find your stories on the DIA intriguing and sad. Was this done quietly? Did her taste{Anna's/Duveen's} hold value and bring a lot of money for the DIA? Anything else you can offer as time allows would be appreciated.

http://www.internetstones.com/anna-t...-necklace.html Scroll down for a wealth of information.

**RoseTerrace** · October-05-09, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

The organ went to what was then Northwestern Baptist Church, which was on 10 Mile just east of Evergreen [[right across the street for Fieger's office). That church has since been sold with the organ going to the new owners. Whether or not they still have it or are using it I do not know. Northwestern restructured and is now Wellspring Church on Eight Mile in Farmington. You might contact them and see if there's someone there available to look for what information they have.

My mom was the organist at Northwestern and loved having such a beautiful instrument.

Now http://www.familyvictory.org/index_main.html I spoke to someone this morning from the church. She confirmed the site was the location of Northwestern Baptist Church but knew nothing about the organ. Nw Baptist Church sold the building in 1997. I'm suppose to email my questions and the director will hopefully get back with me. I in turn will post any updates here.

**RoseTerrace** · October-07-09, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by RoseTerrace

Now http://www.familyvictory.org/index_main.html I spoke to someone this morning from the church. She confirmed the site was the location of Northwestern Baptist Church but knew nothing about the organ. Nw Baptist Church sold the building in 1997. I'm suppose to email my questions and the director will hopefully get back with me. I in turn will post any updates here.

Follow up to the whereabouts of the organ from Rose Terrace. Current owners of church tell me that the organ was sold fifteen years or so ago. They are willing to check offsite storage for records. I'll post further updates as the trail unfolds.

lilpup · October-10-09, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by RoseTerrace

Follow up to the whereabouts of the organ from Rose Terrace. Current owners of church tell me that the organ was sold fifteen years or so ago. They are willing to check offsite storage for records. I'll post further updates as the trail unfolds.

NW Baptist definitely didn't sell it other than with the building. The new owners must have done so just after purchasing the building.

**RoseTerrace** · October-10-09, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

NW Baptist definitely didn't sell it other than with the building. The new owners must have done so just after purchasing the building.

Yes, thats my understanding. Church has those records offsite on who purchased it. I would suspect they needing money and "it" needed work. I hope to hear something next week.

**RoseTerrace** · October-10-09, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

My mom was the organist at Northwestern and loved having such a beautiful instrument.

Do you recall the sounds/music of the organ?

lilpup · October-10-09, 06:31 PM

I believe there are some recordings from Northwestern, if at least with the choir.

edit to add: come to think of it Northwestern used to record their services on cassette every Sunday. I wonder if anyone still has those or if they got taped over.

**RoseTerrace** · October-12-09, 09:12 AM

Did anyone trick-or-treat at Rose Terrace? I think it was this site someone posted they did some caroling over the Christmas period and got a cookie from Mrs. Dodge. Was Rose Terrace decorated for the holidays?

**RoseTerrace** · November-15-09, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

The organ went to what was then Northwestern Baptist Church, which was on 10 Mile just east of Evergreen [[right across the street for Fieger's office). That church has since been sold with the organ going to the new owners. Whether or not they still have it or are using it I do not know. Northwestern restructured and is now Wellspring Church on Eight Mile in Farmington. You might contact them and see if there's someone there available to look for what information they have.

My mom was the organist at Northwestern and loved having such a beautiful instrument.

The organ now sits in storage in the Washington DC area waiting for restoration. Before the current collector purchased, parts had been sold off. Two "ranks" or pipes were used in the restoration of the Jay Gould organ from his NYC townhouse. http://web.me.com/bobtaylor5/aeolian/Welcome.html

lilpup · November-19-09, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by RoseTerrace

The organ now sits in storage in the Washington DC area waiting for restoration. Before the current collector purchased, parts had been sold off. Two "ranks" or pipes were used in the restoration of the Jay Gould organ from his NYC townhouse. http://web.me.com/bobtaylor5/aeolian/Welcome.html

Two pipes or two ranks of pipes? Each rank is multiple pipes.

**RoseTerrace** · November-19-09, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Two pipes or two ranks of pipes? Each rank is multiple pipes.

Thats right - my mistake. Two ranks plus top octave of the swell chest and most of those pipes. I have no idea what a swell chest is?????
My hope is that the DIA will allow access to their archives. THEY have the three Duveen presentation books with photos by Mattie Edwards Hewitt given to Mrs. Dodge at the time of completion.
I want to the the "Icecream Room"!

lilpup · November-24-09, 04:19 PM

RoseT,

My mom [[a long time AGO member) wants to know which collector has the organ. Do you have the name? Hit me back via private message if you don't want to post that info publicly.

Thanks!

**Mikeg** · October-04-09, 11:34 PM

I found a few photos from this site showing the exterior and the garage.

Are they the May 1975 photos shown on this thread? If so, note that it includes links to the full sized images.

**RoseTerrace** · October-05-09, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Are they the May 1975 photos shown on this thread? If so, note that it includes links to the full sized images.

Yes, those are the photos I found. Are they yours? Are there more? Have you been? Thanks for your time.

**Mikeg** · October-05-09, 12:05 PM

Yes, those are the photos I found. Are they yours? Are there more? Have you been? Thanks for your time

I just wanted to make sure that you had seen those photos. I scanned and uploaded them for a friend. Unfortunately, there were no more RT photos in that collection.

**Patrick** · October-06-09, 07:00 PM

We have discussed Rose Terrace as well as many other grand homes in great detail for years on here. Dream was probably the most knowledgeable when it came to finding out exact property info. I wouldnâ€™t be surprised if we had at least 30 threads on DY in the last 8 years or so concerning grand estates. You might also want to look into doing something about Harbor Hill, which was John Dodgeâ€™s unfinished estate in GP.
I bought a complete auction book with a bunch of goodies and articles tucked in it at King Books last year for $30. Great find indeed. Understand that rose terrace was completed during the Depression, when many great homes were being torn down. It was essentially Americaâ€™s last great house.I remember emailing a Dodge descendent and he said he and his family members really had little memorabilia or photos from the great era of the family.