Foreign Cars.

[ndavies]

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Ford help out our fellow country men that need work first before getting a pleasant reach around from China? Why can't Wayne Assembly build cars for export to China?

They can't due to the high cost of US labor and Chinese import and sales laws. Cars built in the US would be priced out of a common chinese consumer's reach. China also has had very large restrictions on who could sell cars there. Foreign automakers were forced to create joint ventures with Chinese companies in order to even sell cars there. While the restrictions are being slowly being removed, at this point the only real solution is to venture up with a chinese company and build the vehicles there.

[CountrySquire]

$900 for a brake job? How about this, I'll give him a deal, and do it for half off at $450.



[/color]Still think foreign auto parts are more expensive than domestic? You said your friend rents higher mileage cars [[assuming late 90s, early 2000s). I quoted two 2000 model year cars, one American and one Foreign. These figures are straight from the Autozone's website with part numbers if you want to check them yourself. These are the cheapest options either model offered, no number games.

2000 Honda Accord - Brake Pads - DG465A - $34.99
2000 Honda Accord - Brake Rotor - 31243 - $21.99




2000 Ford Taurus - Brake Pads - DGC601 - $59.99
2000 Ford Taurus - Brake Rotor - DGR54010 - $49.99






As far as insurance costing more on a foreign car, this is what Forbes stated the top ten cheapest cars to insure:

1. Hyundai Santa Fe [[SUV): $832
2. Kia Sportage [[SUV): $840
3. Hyundai Entourage [[Minivan): $848
4. Kia Sedona [[Minivan): $857
5. Kia Rio5 [[Passenger): $857
6. Honda Odyssey [[Minivan): $871
7. Smart fortwo [[Passenger): $881
8. Saturn Vue [[SUV): $911
9. Mazda Tribute [[SUV): $913
10. Chrysler Town & Country [[Minivan): $915

Look at that, the list is full of foreign companies. Also, as a car rental company, shouldn't the customers bring their own insurance or pay $X amount of dollars to buy insurance from him?

Maybe your friend should reconsider his fleet, it might just save him money!

Yes, thats what everyone else says, besides me.

-Tahleel

Here's what I found. So now what?:

2003 Accord LX

WAGNER Part # BD125674 Front Rotor $51.79

WAGNER Part # EC787 Front Pads $45.79
FRONT; Japan Built

BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0791127
REMAN, LOADED; Coupe; M/T; FRONT LEFT Caliper $88.79


2003 Ford Taurus

A-1 CARDONE Part # 184613S Front Caliper $31.79

AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # 2859801 Front Brake Pad $9.87

AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # AR8139 Front Rotor $16.96

Source Rock Auto.com

[CountrySquire]

They can't due to the high cost of US labor and Chinese import and sales laws. Cars built in the US would be priced out of a common chinese consumer's reach. China also has had very large restrictions on who could sell cars there. Foreign automakers were forced to create joint ventures with Chinese companies in order to even sell cars there. While the restrictions are being slowly being removed, at this point the only real solution is to venture up with a chinese company and build the vehicles there.

Again I agree with you Ndavies that the Chinese government is far more ahead of our government when it comes to protecting the livelihoods of its citizens.

[darwinism]

Here's what I found. So now what?:

2003 Accord LX

WAGNER Part # BD125674 Front Rotor $51.79

WAGNER Part # EC787 Front Pads $45.79
FRONT; Japan Built

BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0791127
REMAN, LOADED; Coupe; M/T; FRONT LEFT Caliper $88.79


2003 Ford Taurus

A-1 CARDONE Part # 184613S Front Caliper $31.79

AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # 2859801 Front Brake Pad $9.87

AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # AR8139 Front Rotor $16.96

Source Rock Auto.com

Don't know about you guys, but if I need to buy a book online - I go to Amazon.com ..... not WoodAndBooks.com

And if I need to buy auto parts - I'd go to AutoZone, or Murray's, or Advanced Auto Parts.

[tahleel]

Here's what I found. So now what?:

2003 Accord LX

WAGNER Part # BD125674 Front Rotor $51.79

WAGNER Part # EC787 Front Pads $45.79
FRONT; Japan Built

BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0791127
REMAN, LOADED; Coupe; M/T; FRONT LEFT Caliper $88.79


2003 Ford Taurus

A-1 CARDONE Part # 184613S Front Caliper $31.79

AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # 2859801 Front Brake Pad $9.87

AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # AR8139 Front Rotor $16.96

Source Rock Auto.com

Wow, what a [[[[[[, great job playing number games. You picked the cheapest replacement parts for the Taurus and the most expensive parts for the Accord. This is what I found, even on YOUR biased RockAuto.com site:

What I found:
AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES Part # 2578702 $12.16
Versus what you put up:
WAGNER Part # EC787 Front Pads $45.79 FRONT; Japan Built

What I found:
GUARDIAN / ONE SOURCE Part # 30126082 $19.74
Versus what you put up:
WAGNER Part # BD125674 Front Rotor $51.79

What I found:
A-1 CARDONE Part # 192660 [Caliper w/Installation Hardware] $38.89
Versus what you put up:
BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0791127
REMAN, LOADED; Coupe; M/T; FRONT LEFT Caliper $88.79

First, you posted a site that may not be accessible to anyone, where as there are many Autozone location scattered throughout Metro Detroit that is easily accessable to anyone.

Second, and most important, you intentionally picked more expensive parts and tried to pass them off as the cheapest ones. How can they even be compared? How are you even credible anymore?

-Tahleel

[CountrySquire]

"Second, and most important, you intentionally picked more expensive parts and tried to pass them off as the cheapest ones. How can they even be compared? How are you even credible anymore? "


Meaning "You caught me at my own game"

Rock Auto is a public site, try em again.

[tahleel]

"Second, and most important, you intentionally picked more expensive parts and tried to pass them off as the cheapest ones. How can they even be compared? How are you even credible anymore? "


Meaning "You caught me at my own game"

Rock Auto is a public site, try em again.

Who caught who? I caught you trying to pass off expensive parts as the cheapest when trying to compare two cars. I stated in my post that the ones I chose were the cheapest options, and they truly are, no number games.

By the way, we want to see the invoice of your friend's "$900 brake job." Let's see how truthful you are.

EDIT: Next time you need parts for your car, let us know how RockAuto works out for you. Also, you are for supporting a mail order company versus a company [[Autozone) that employs local and knowledgeable people that could answer your questions in person instead of e-mail? What happened to local/regional loyalty? I thought you were all about that.

-Tahleel

[CountrySquire]

"By the way, we want to see the invoice of your friend's "$900 brake job." Let's see how truthful you are."


Call Save A Buck Car Rental in Madison heights and tell them you want to rent his finest Toyota, then sit back and let him educate you.

[tahleel]

"By the way, we want to see the invoice of your friend's "$900 brake job." Let's see how truthful you are."


Call Save A Buck Car Rental in Madison heights and tell them you want to rent his finest Toyota, then sit back and let him educate you.

No thank you. We've already heard enough false information from you. We can only imagine what your buddy would say.

-Tahleel

[darwinism]

"Second, and most important, you intentionally picked more expensive parts and tried to pass them off as the cheapest ones. How can they even be compared? How are you even credible anymore? "

Meaning "You caught me at my own game"

Rock Auto is a public site, try em again.

You are definitely a real [[[[[[ for pulling a game such as that in an open forum. Wow, absolutely unbelievable ! It is [[[[[[[[[s like you that are ruining any splinter of a chance that the domestic automakers have to shore up their reputation and their image across the United States. It is because of people that can't tell the truth, and because of a few bad apples in the entire orchard, the whole domestic auto manufacturing goes down in a painful way.

[CountrySquire]

"EDIT: Next time you need parts for your car, let us know how RockAuto works out for you. Also, you are for supporting a mail order company versus a company [[Autozone) that employs local and knowledgeable people that could answer your questions in person instead of e-mail? What happened to local"

Rock Auto? I was merely having fun with web pages like you were. Personally I go one step better then you when you shop Corporatist Auto Zone that pay their people minimum wage and offer no healthcare. When I need parts I go to a little store in Southfield that's been owned by the same family for over 50 years.

[CountrySquire]

You are definitely a real [[[[[[ for pulling a game such as that in an open forum. Wow, absolutely unbelievable !

So if Taheel does it, it's fun and games, but when I do it you cry foul. Thanks dittohead!

[elganned]

Fact: in 1980, the Big 3 had 70% of the auto market share, with the "foreign" nameplates holding 30%.
Fact: in 2000, the Big 3 had 30% of the auto market share, with the "foreign" nameplates holding 70%.

The consumer has spoken. Deal with it.

[ndavies]

Again I agree with you Ndavies that the Chinese government is far more ahead of our government when it comes to protecting the livelihoods of its citizens.

Sorry, don't stick words in my mouth. I believe fully in Free trade. I'm looking for the opposite. We need to force China to play by the same rules we play by. If you want full access to our economy we should have full access to yours.

[darwinism]

So if Taheel does it, it's fun and games, but when I do it you cry foul. Thanks dittohead!

Listen, [[[[[[[[[ SOB, tahleel DID NOT play games - He presented his facts about auto parts pricing truthfully. Whereas you feel the need to f#*k with his facts by offering your "fun" [[[[[[-filled info to mislead the DetroitYes audience. So, nobody is crying foul here. You are foul, dittohead!

[tahleel]

So if Taheel does it, it's fun and games, but when I do it you cry foul. Thanks dittohead!

I presented my information in an accurate and true manner. I posted the cheapest prices available for both cars. What you did was make an unfair comparison by falsifying the cheapest parts. In the big leagues, we call that "cookin the books." I thought ultra-conservative people like yourself were supposed to be the "ethical" ones?

If the Accord prices were higher than the Taurus, I would've stated it. Infact, I will admit that the Accord prices are slightly higher at Rock Auto than Autozone. This can be because each vendor has their own agreement with parts suppliers.

The fact is, I compared apples to apples. You, apples to [insert exotic fruit here].

-Tahleel

[wazootyman]

C'mon guys, the direction this discussion is going is absurd - on both sides. Look back at the original post and ask what any of this has to do with what you're arguing about.

There are no guarantees that any of these automakers will remain loyal to this country, and that goes particularly for the foreign-owned plants. Who's to say that when their sweet tax breaks expire that they won't shift production south of the border? Fact is, they're in a better position financially, partly due to unfair advantages regarding health care, trade policies and lack of retiree "burden". They can afford to build plants in the United States [[again, with major tax breaks) because these expenses do not burden them to the extent that they do the Detroit Three. There have been a lot of screw-ups by these companies, but at the same time, we're our own worst enemy when it comes to policy supporting domestic manufacturing.

Can you honestly say that supporting Hyundai instead of GM is better for the future of this country? It may do well for your selfish needs - you view it as a better quality vehicle, that perhaps costs less. You may feel it's got a better value, even if you haven't given the domestic counterpart a fair test. You're entitled to do that, of course, but I don't think you're entitled to complain about the consequences it may bring [[particularly if you live in SE Michigan). If you do live here, you're shooting yourself in the foot by doing so, though I shouldn't say that because it makes me ignorant according to some academics around here - should I just admit I think Detroit is the center of the galaxy? Regardless of what is said about how un-important we are to the 49 other states, I think a lot of people nation-wide should be scared of what is happening to Detroit and what it stands for.

If you wanted to, I think a case could be made that a lot of the work-force is overpaid; what makes a middle-manager worth six figures, and furthermore, what makes him entitled to call out a UAW line worker just because he feels he is superior to him?

I've tried to keep up with this thread, and perhaps I've missed it, but where has anybody acknowledged the fact that foreign-owned automotive jobs are a bucket in a sinking US automotive job ship? As I understand it, the automobile is still the most complex mass-produced product in the world, the biggest consumer of glass to semiconductors, requiring everything from accountants to chemical engineers to make them roll off the assembly line. Should we really just be that willing to give up this source of national pride? If the Japanese were in a similar boat, do you think that their culture would permit such a "it's lost a lost cause...move on" attitude? I think the fact that Hyundai, Toyota and Honda built plants here to employ Americans is great for those that can get the jobs, but it comes at a significant cost to all those that are losing them in return. The Camry may be the "most American" car to some, but I have yet to see figures that quote how many jobs the Camry supports versus, say, the Malibu. I suspect it's not even close. Can we get past the fact already that there is SO much more to a vehicle's human involvement than the 3,000 jobs in a final assembly plant?

If I've learned one thing in this thread, it's that the Fusion is built in Mexico. Wait, I already knew that, I've just seen it repeated half a dozen times. I think it sucks that Ford, GM and Chrysler make cars outside this country. I probably wouldn't have bought the 2008 Vue - my 2007 was built and designed in this country, and I didn't want a Mexican-built car [[as it would sort of go against my beliefs). But consider this: Besides outright greed, what else would drive production down to Mexico? Cost cutting. In my experience with an automotive supplier, we HAD to send production to Mexico and China, despite the preference by myself and most of the engineers. The reason was cost. GM couldn't pay the domestic-made premium because the consumer wouldn't. Joe McWalMart would be driven to the foreign competition immediately if the domestic counterpart had a $2,000 add-on because it was 100% domestic. Problem is, we have it too good here, and making a decent wage is no longer acceptable in the "shiny new global economy" that's slowly killing our standard of living. My understanding is, as I mentioned earlier, that the advantages the foreign-owned companies have give them more available overhead for a domestic worker. In turn, it convinces some of you that they're a more caring, more American car company than our own.

I look toward the future as really uncertain. I don't think we're headed in the right direction by shifting ownership and manufacturing power overseas. A lot of the so-called growth over the last however-many years has been a fraud; our manufacturing base erodes while credit masks our financial strain. I know this is a much bigger issue than "foreign cars", it just is ultimately where my beliefs come from. If we don't maintain the capacity to design, produce and support our own product, how do we build wealth? Our loss is their gain.

So, whatever. I hope I've been somewhat coherent. How about this for homerism. Brings a tear to my [[ignorant) eye when I think about how far we've fallen since even this was made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoLtODutYNQ

To put my viewpoint in perspective: I'm 28, an electrical engineer, and in the midst of forming a start-up energy/engineering company while also working for a global [[locally-based) automotive supplier. My wife and I own two domestically-built and engineered GM cars, a 2007 and a 2009. Call me what you will, but I will never buy a foreign car.

[CountrySquire]

Listen, [[[[[[[[[ SOB, tahleel DID NOT play games - He presented his facts about auto parts pricing truthfully. Whereas you feel the need to f#*k with his facts by offering your "fun" [[[[[[-filled info to mislead the DetroitYes audience. So, nobody is crying foul here. You are foul, dittohead!

No, Taheel went to a website of a company that supplies autoparts and copied prices, and I did the same. I might add that the prices I copied were real prices for those actual cars. So how was that misleading? Do you really think that AutoZone just carries one type of brake parts for each of its cars as TalHell would have you think? And you assume, merely because he said so, that he thoroughly researched the facts and presented an unbiased set of information. If pointing this out to you makes me a [[[[[[[[[, then I have no problem with that since your monicher for me is coming from a brainless dittohead.

[tahleel]

One thing I will admit for credibility purposes, is that at one point I was wrong. I went to Autozone's website, and punched in the two vehicles. I copied the first product thinking it sorts from lowest to highest by default. Some prices were wrong [[both Accord and Taurus prices are lower), here are the corrected price, check yourself the URLs are included:

2000 Honda Accord
Valucraft / Brake Pads - Front Part Number: MKD503V Price: $12.99
Duralast / Brake Rotor - Front Part Number: 31243 Price: $21.99

2000 Ford Taurus
Valucraft / Brake Pads - Front Part Number: MKD601V Price: $14.99
Valucraft / Brake Rotor - Front Part Number: 54010B Price: $24.99


But to get back to the original point, the Accord's prices for brakes are lower than the Taurus's and no where near $900 as CountrySquire stated.

-Tahleel

[CountrySquire]

Stop misleading!! For a break job you can't just look at part prices, you have consider labor costs, shop charges etc.

[tahleel]

Stop misleading!! For a break job you can't just look at part prices, you have consider labor costs, shop charges etc.

I've done the brakes [[not break) on my parent's vehicles [[Nissan Sentra, Honda Civics) with a simple set of metric sockets and wrenches in my driveway. I don't see why there would be a higher labor cost or shop charge since brakes, are brakes, are brakes. Either disc or drum, but besides that the only difference is price and availability in parts which I've shown are cheaper on the Accord versus the Taurus. Labor should be the same, as the same work is done.

P.S. Last Chevy's [[Astro) brakes I've seen, you needed hex-keyed sockets to simply take the caliper off. Who has those anyways? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a common design on Chevy products? It seemed like every time I did something on a GM product, it used hex-keyed sockets, special star tools, or a GM-specialty tool. All the work I've done on my parents [[foreign) cars over the years, I did with a simple American-Made Craftsman tool set.

-Tahleel

[rooms222]

The brake jobs can vary in how the brakes wear, what parts are salvageable, how and when the brakes give you a warning they need service, and how much damage is done when the warning happens and how quickly.

I have had American, European, and Japanese cars [[am not from here and get no employee discounts), and I have to say that the Honda Civic I had was by far the most expensive for brakes. I had some $7-800 brake jobs, especially for the rear discs, and they happened with surprising frequency [[my mechanic is a personal friend, and the prices on all my and my family and friend's other cars have been much lower).

For other repairs, the Honda was second only to my Audi 5000 Turbo Diesel both in cost and frequency [[but both were fun cars with incredible mileage). Cars that have been cheap and reliable: Ford Escort ZX2 [[made in Mexico), Toyota Corolla, Plymouth Voyager,German made Jetta, US and UAW made Golf and Rabbit.......

[CountrySquire]

Taheel are you talking about Torx Bits? Lots of applications for those on all cars. Get yourself a nice set of Lisles, good american made tools with a life time guarantee. I've snapped a many while wrenching on something rusty at Parts Glore and the man at the parts store just gives me another, no questions asked.

The worst I ever heard about a brake job was a late 70s Datsun Z with dual piston calipers a waiter I used to work with years ago would talk about. He got several repair estimates around $1200 and decided to say "scew it" and kept driving the car. This car was all ready a rusty peice of junk and no were near worth $1200; so when the brakes got real bad he would downshift to slow down and just shut the ignition off and let the engine stop the car. I guess he did this until he replaced the heap with a nice American used car that he could afford.

[darwinism]

No, Taheel went to a website of a company that supplies autoparts and copied prices, and I did the same.

Wow, you are really something, aren't you ? I read tahleel's post and your post, he posted prices from AutoZone, while you posted prices from RockAuto - Who the flying f#*k is RockAuto ? So, as far as I'm concerned, you are NOT doing the same.

I might add that the prices I copied were real prices for those actual cars. So how was that misleading? Do you really think that AutoZone just carries one type of brake parts for each of its cars as TalHell would have you think?

You're sure good at playing dumb, aren't you ? Or perhaps you are really that stupid. tahleel's post CLEARLY stated that he has chosen the LOWEST priced brakes for the sample vehicles. He CLEARLY stated that no numbers game should be attempted. Do you even read at all ?

And you assume, merely because he said so, that he thoroughly researched the facts and presented an unbiased set of information. If pointing this out to you makes me a [[[[[[[[[, then I have no problem with that since your monicher for me is coming from a brainless dittohead.

Look ! I don't know who tahleel is, nor do I know you. What I know is that one person brought data from AutoZone, while the other person brought data from RockAuto that were skewed towards the more expensive range as far as the Accord is concerned. Why don't you present data from Advanced Auto Parts, or Murray's, where the DetroitYes audience is familiar with ? Is it because you are afraid of choking on the truth ?

I've been on DetroitYes long enough to have encountered many a$$hole$ over the years, but you sure are in a league of your own when it comes to being a brainless sack of sh!# dittohead [[[[[[[[[ SOB. Not many folks would stoop as low to even try to spin an obvious lie on an open forum like what we have here at DetroitYes.

[CountrySquire]

I've been around this site for awhile too and I can read an over inflated underthought blow hard like you from a mile away that wants to pile on a guy when he is perceived to be stumbling. Why should I post data from Murray's;What's wrong with Rock Auto? Just because you've not heard of them in your little world does not mean no one else has.