Foreign Cars.

[CountrySquire]

Hey Darwincynisism, you mean like Rock Auto? Even when it was pointed out to you that it was a real company that other people had heard of, but that you had accused me of making it all up. You mean those kinds of lies? What other types of lies do you hear through out your day? Maybe a lie like the earth is round and is not the center of the universe and that all planets in our galaxy orbit around it.

[EMG]

Chrysler May Not Make It Another Year:

http://247wallst.com/2009/10/01/chry...-another-year/

This guy tells it like it is.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Chrysler May Not Make It Another Year:

http://247wallst.com/2009/10/01/chry...-another-year/

This guy tells it like it is.

GM isn't out the woods either. The only one that looks like it might turn things around is Ford.

[darwinism]

Hey Darwincynisism, you mean like Rock Auto? Even when it was pointed out to you that it was a real company that other people had heard of, but that you had accused me of making it all up. You mean those kinds of lies? What other types of lies do you hear through out your day? Maybe a lie like the earth is round and is not the center of the universe and that all planets in our galaxy orbit around it.

Sure sounds like I'm not the only one seeing your lies here, liar .....

Hey, I gave you the Rock Auto thing but now you're just talking out your ass. If anyone even remotely connected with the industry can't see the difference between a 1990 vehicle and a 2009 vehicle they're either lying because they're afraid to lose face in an argument or their ignorance of the industry borders on incompetence and negligence.

Besides, the facts are against you here. The only data you've posted was shown to be cherry-picked. The facts posted by those arguing against you are linked, verifiable, pertinent and compelling.

[CountrySquire]

Darcynisism you got that right you are not the only one here that is denser than a sack of wet concrete.

[Det_ard]

Sorry, you are plain wrong on a few of your points and show your ignorance and still evade my basic question as to why you feel a few of these improvements like passenger side airbags make the new cars stay beneath normal inflation. In 1990 The Standard engine was not a 4 cylinder, you are thinking Escort, you had a choice of two six cylinders, a 3.0 liter and a 3.8 Liter. The standard radio was not an AM, it would have been so in maybe 1980, by 1990 it would have been an AM FM Stereo, AC would have been a standard feature. Standard power locks / windows, I believe you would be getting these in 1990.

Hey, I went to Edmunds and a couple other sites to do my research, maybe they're all wrong, but probably not. The 2.5L 4-cyl was std on L and GL lines. The radio be AM/FM but no cassette, no CD [[no XM, no Sirius, no IPOD adapter, no SYNC system, no HD radio, no in-car hard drive, get the idea, progress has been made in the last 20 years). A/C, power brakes and windows weren't standard on a base Taurus according to Edmunds.

But that's not the main point I'm making. The point I'm making has to do with the how cars have continually improved. Even if the price stayed the same you're getting far more for your money.

Manufacturing processes are more robust creating higher quality? True, but Ford received numerous quality awards in the late 80s and Early 90s for its Taurus Line and it was on par with the imports of the time. And so what? As a consumer why do I care about the machines that build my car so long as the final product is what I want? Why would Joe consumer want to pay more for a car simply because it was built with more state of the art automated tooling than the next car?

No, we don't care how it's done but we do care about the result. The result of better manufacturing processes is higher quality and lower cost, two items that consumers care very much about. The improvements in quality, measured over time by companies like JD Power in terms of defects per 100 vehicles, have been tremendous. Cars twenty years ago likely had three times as many defects.

You do point out a few things like the two channel ABS but most of your paragraph is laden with conjecture. I still want to know where is my significant direct savings Ford has realized by putting hundreds of thousands out of work [[which includes indirect people dependant on Auto industry) and awarding that work to lower wage countries. Why doesn't that 2010 Taurus cost $11K? That's what I would expect as a company like a Ford is so much leaner now and cut out all that unnecessary fat.

If you look at the automotive offerings today it's clear that manufacturers chose to put the savings into more competitive products. They could produce a '90 Taurus today for a realtively low price. Who'd buy it? The market has shown that a very inexpensive car won't succeed if it's beset by uncompetitve levels of defects and is very unrefined and poorly equipped compared to the competition [[think Yugo.) By today's standards, a '90 Taurus is a Yugo.

I've made my point as well as I can. I think it ought to be clear what I'm saying. I'm sorry if you don't get it but I'm not inclined to invest any more time in this. Good luck with your automotive career.

[CountrySquire]

Nice points Det_Ard. Yeah I think Edmunds is steering you wrong. The 2.5L was a GM engine and that would have been the standard on the Chevy Celibrity or Olds Cierra. I do agree with you that the 2010 Taurus is better car then the '90 Taurus. Too bad it won't see the sales volumes that the '90 did. This is directly due to cost cutting measures put into place by companies like Ford that helped detroy our economy which makes buying a 2010 Taurs an impossibilty for most.

[EMG]

Asia trumps Big 3 quality - and trounces Chrysler - once again, according to this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33495183/

[[Ford at least got some honorable mention. But Chrysler finished dead LAST out of 33 brands with over a third of Chrysler models "much worse than average.")

[Buy American]

BuyAmerican,

I've pretty much deduced this site is mostly fresh out of community college kids. No life experience beyond what they see on television or garnered from a video game. Let them fund foreign corporations, let them send our American dollars away, and get cheap Chinese shit in return. The economy, our society-our very way of US life is vaporizing before us and they are too stupid to realize it. You and I, and folks like us have something to gauge today against, a much different yesterday, a time of sensibilities. As we have learned from real life experience, and our parents taught us, hang on and cover your ass, it's going to be a rough ride. It's their future they are destroying, my future and hopefully yours too is relatively secure. Let em' have it. They're making their own bed, the one they'll be sleeping in.

Sstashmoo, you are 100% correct. My future is secure and I'm glad that yours is too. My regret is that my grandchildren will never know how things could have been because this generation of idiots just don't get it.

[EMG]

BuyAmerican,

I've pretty much deduced this site is mostly fresh out of community college kids. No life experience beyond what they see on television or garnered from a video game. Let them fund foreign corporations, let them send our American dollars away, and get cheap Chinese shit in return. ...... Let em' have it. They're making their own bed, the one they'll be sleeping in.

I happen to be age 47 with two college degrees magna cum laude and, as stated earlier, nearly two decades' experience working with one of the Big 3. I've seen first hand, both as an employee and as a customer of said company, the unacceptable performance that passes for quality and service on the part of the Big 3 and its UAW employees and its dealers.

The people that are making the bed are the managers, employees, and dealers of the Big 3. You can't blame the customer. Nobody who has gone through what I went through as a former Big 3 owner and a current Honda owner would ever in their right mind consider owning a Big 3 vehicle for the rest of their natural life.

The Big 3 has had over 30 years to impress me and prove itself to me, and it failed. Honda and Kia have succeeded. Ergo, I will buy Hondas and Kias, even if the U.S. workers who build them happen to be employed elsewhere than in Michigan. And if I did have children I would not hesitate to warn them about all of the problems inherent in poorly designed and manufactured Big 3 products and the union mentality and attitude I experienced while I worked with UAW members for all those years. I would warn them not to buy products from those companies under any circumstances. Detroit and the UAW need to have the silver spoons yanked out of their mouths and accept the fact that no one owes them patronage "just because." Respect and customer loyalty need to be EARNED. And loyalty and market share will only be regained following years of hard work, honest effort, and genuine respect in the way they build their products and treat their customers and employees.

Nobody owes the Big 3 or Detroit a living, any more than anyone owes ANYONE a living. In both cases, success must be earned as a result of hard work and effort. In my experience, Detroit's Big 3 don't measure up. They are failures, and the current market situation is only a natural result of that.

[darwinism]

I've pretty much deduced this site is mostly fresh out of community college kids. No life experience beyond what they see on television or garnered from a video game. Let them fund foreign corporations, let them send our American dollars away, and get cheap Chinese shit in return. The economy, our society-our very way of US life is vaporizing before us and they are too stupid to realize it. You and I, and folks like us have something to gauge today against, a much different yesterday, a time of sensibilities. As we have learned from real life experience, and our parents taught us, hang on and cover your ass, it's going to be a rough ride. It's their future they are destroying, my future and hopefully yours too is relatively secure. Let em' have it. They're making their own bed, the one they'll be sleeping in.

So, how old of a person are you ? And what robust life experiences do you have that provided you with all the intelligence and knowledge to tackle this new world order that you are bracing for ?

Quote: "Why would you support Ford for building the highly popular Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan in Mexico ?"

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer. Ford is doing what it has to do to survive. Do you really think if all Americans understood the importance of supporting domestic companies and only purchased from those companies, that Ford would build a plant in China? You're taking things out of context, and way after the fact.

For the record, nothing is being taken out of context. Do you even know the definition of the word 'context' ? This thread relates to comparing foreign vs. domestic vehicles. The discussion centers around how we can all just calm down and understand the situation better on a macro-economic level, as well as a micro-economic level. The notion of Ford building its most highly acclaimed Fusion and Mercury Milan in Mexico instead of in the U.S. of A, fits into the discussion dead-on, and perfectly within the context of the debate.

And oh ..... before I forget, perhaps it might hurt your ego, but despite your misconceptions above regarding the demographics of DetroitYes, the reality of the matter is that DetroitYes reaches far beyond the under-20 age group, or the boundaries of Michigan. With that in mind, it might actually surprise you that the majority of the folks on here are older than you think, and more experienced than you would like.

Therefore, if you do in fact have a solid, tangible solution and primary source citations to support your viewpoints ..... let's hear it.

[darwinism]

No, it fits your attempt at defending an ideology doomed for failure.

Ideology ? Are you kidding me ? Ideology ? You're trying to turn this thread into a political one, aren't you ? Oh no, I'm not going there.

Who is upset and needs calming? I wasn't upset when I wrote "Let em' have it". I have opted to step aside and watch the "globalization" brainwashed shove the US way of life in the nearest ditch. While I protect myself of course. Enjoy yourselves.

Well, well, well ..... what exactly is the US way of life that is going into the ditch, if I may ask ? And since you didn't answer the other questions that were asked, here they are again - So, how old of a person are you ? And what robust life experiences do you have that provided you with all the intelligence and knowledge to tackle this new world order that you are bracing for ?

While were quizzing each others lexicon, do you know the meaning of "coherent"?

Yes, I do, indeed.

[darwinism]

Quote: "So, how old of a person are you ?"

None of your business.

Quote: "And what robust life experiences do you have"

Also, none of your business.

Quote: "what exactly is the US way of life that is going into the ditch, if I may ask ? "

The fact that you need to ask...

Of course it is none of our business, after all, you are the one who needs to establish credibility on this forum. By providing absolutely nothing other than spiteful comments, we actually didn't even need to ask about "your US way of life", but we thought we'd try to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Well, since you are so cordial in your response, perhaps you should know that the majority of the DetroitYes community can already figure out on our own. DetroitYes forumers are actually a very sharp group of folks here.