Foreign Cars.

[EMG]

BuyAmerican,

I've pretty much deduced this site is mostly fresh out of community college kids. No life experience beyond what they see on television or garnered from a video game. Let them fund foreign corporations, let them send our American dollars away, and get cheap Chinese shit in return. ...... Let em' have it. They're making their own bed, the one they'll be sleeping in.

I happen to be age 47 with two college degrees magna cum laude and, as stated earlier, nearly two decades' experience working with one of the Big 3. I've seen first hand, both as an employee and as a customer of said company, the unacceptable performance that passes for quality and service on the part of the Big 3 and its UAW employees and its dealers.

The people that are making the bed are the managers, employees, and dealers of the Big 3. You can't blame the customer. Nobody who has gone through what I went through as a former Big 3 owner and a current Honda owner would ever in their right mind consider owning a Big 3 vehicle for the rest of their natural life.

The Big 3 has had over 30 years to impress me and prove itself to me, and it failed. Honda and Kia have succeeded. Ergo, I will buy Hondas and Kias, even if the U.S. workers who build them happen to be employed elsewhere than in Michigan. And if I did have children I would not hesitate to warn them about all of the problems inherent in poorly designed and manufactured Big 3 products and the union mentality and attitude I experienced while I worked with UAW members for all those years. I would warn them not to buy products from those companies under any circumstances. Detroit and the UAW need to have the silver spoons yanked out of their mouths and accept the fact that no one owes them patronage "just because." Respect and customer loyalty need to be EARNED. And loyalty and market share will only be regained following years of hard work, honest effort, and genuine respect in the way they build their products and treat their customers and employees.

Nobody owes the Big 3 or Detroit a living, any more than anyone owes ANYONE a living. In both cases, success must be earned as a result of hard work and effort. In my experience, Detroit's Big 3 don't measure up. They are failures, and the current market situation is only a natural result of that.

[Buy American]

When Detroit is a ghost town and the State of Michigan is a wasteland I hope you foreign buyers choke on your lame excuses not to support the U.S.A.

[bailey]

When Detroit is a ghost town and the State of Michigan is a wasteland I hope you foreign buyers choke on your lame excuses not to support the U.S.A.

Well, last night I went over to the Chevy dealer to talk about a Equinox. 18 weeks until they'll have one that wasnt stripped down model...those you only had to wait 4. My lease is up on my current vehicle Friday. 4.5 months to get the vehicle I want? Thanks for playing Chevy. It's not a fucking Wii, manufactured shortages do not increase demand, they just cause your customer to look elsewhere. Also, don't get me started with several of the "domestics" i tried to visit this weekend that were not open Saturday...or were only open 11-3. I mean are you serious? Why are you making me work this hard to buy your product?

Businesses fail because they are run badly. end of story. the only ones to blame are the buisnesses.

[darwinism]

I've done the same as yourself, Darwinism as I purchased a 2009 Pontiac G6, which was built at the same Orion plant that builds the Malibu. Even though Pontiac is going away, I bought it. I've always liked Pontiac's and think GM is doing itself a serious injustice eliminating the proud marque that created the "muscle car" and was established in 1926.

Good purchase, Cincinnati_Kid.

This is an old thread worth revisiting

It seems like we still haven't heard from Buy American and sstashmoo about their recent [[2008, 2009. 2010) model year domestic car purchases. Come on, you're not even going to try making up a story about this, heck just say you bought a 2009 Lincoln or Cadillac .....

[tahleel]

Good purchase, Cincinnati_Kid.

This is an old thread worth revisiting

It seems like we still haven't heard from Buy American and sstashmoo about their recent [[2008, 2009. 2010) model year domestic car purchases. Come on, you're not even going to try making up a story about this, heck just say you bought a 2009 Lincoln or Cadillac .....

Since a cat bit their tongue, I'll fill in. A co-worker leases a 2008 Impala. Wheel bearings are shot, tie rods are worn out, and he's had a few other problems. Car has 30K miles. After buying Chevy's for years, he said he will never buy another one.

With that being said, my mom's Honda Civic, bought new in 2001. Has 198K miles. Only thing that was replaced was one strut, oil and plugs.

-Tahleel

[wash_man]

When Detroit is a ghost town and the State of Michigan is a wasteland I hope you foreign buyers choke on your lame excuses not to support the U.S.A.

Yes, but just think how the towns in Mexico that build the "domestic" Ford Fusion and Cadillac SRX will be bustling!

[EMG]

Well, last night I went over to the Chevy dealer to talk about a Equinox. 18 weeks until they'll have one that wasnt stripped down model...those you only had to wait 4. My lease is up on my current vehicle Friday. 4.5 months to get the vehicle I want? Thanks for playing Chevy. It's not a fucking Wii, manufactured shortages do not increase demand, they just cause your customer to look elsewhere. Also, don't get me started with several of the "domestics" i tried to visit this weekend that were not open Saturday...or were only open 11-3. I mean are you serious? Why are you making me work this hard to buy your product?

Businesses fail because they are run badly. end of story. the only ones to blame are the buisnesses.

That bottom line is exactly correct. It is laughable how the BuyAmerican and union types think the world owes them their loyalty regardless of how poorly they treat the customer.

Sorry, but these people need to get their heads out of Oz and back into the real world. The examples you point out further prove my point. How well I remember the days where dealers would have their properties vandalized if they DARED to offer Saturday hours. I've been out of the area for several years now and would have hoped that by now even Detroit's unions would have moved beyond this greedy, petty childishness. But no. I remember the night before Chrysler declared bankruptcy, the UAW local had a letter posted whining that they would not be "the low hanging fruit." It is exactly this attitude that is responsible for the miserable position in which the Big Three find themselves today.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

When Detroit is a ghost town and the State of Michigan is a wasteland I hope you foreign buyers choke on your lame excuses not to support the U.S.A.

We're almost at that point now.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Since a cat bit their tongue, I'll fill in. A co-worker leases a 2008 Impala. Wheel bearings are shot, tie rods are worn out, and he's had a few other problems. Car has 30K miles. After buying Chevy's for years, he said he will never buy another one.

With that being said, my mom's Honda Civic, bought new in 2001. Has 198K miles. Only thing that was replaced was one strut, oil and plugs.

-Tahleel

To each his own. I've owned a couple of domestics that have never had any problems outside routine maintenance. Keep buying Honda's.

[reddog289]

One day I will own a foreign car, A Ferrari hopefully, Yet that pretty much is a dream. A couple of weeks ago I would have settled for anything that ran and was cheap.I have learned some stuff from playing mechanic lately. A lot of replacement parts are not from here U.S. and I have seen Chinese tires for the first time. Would have to say it is a global economy. But I would prefer to support my neighbors by buying the vehicles they build. It keeps them being my neighbors and helps out my neighborhood.

[tahleel]

To each his own. I've owned a couple of domestics that have never had any problems outside routine maintenance. Keep buying Honda's.

Or maybe my dad's Nissan Sentra he bought new in 1994. 250K miles, untouched original engine [[original head gasket, timing chain, water pump) and transmission [[original trans fluid). Only things replaced were alternator and blower motor.

As far as me, I've driven Ford trucks my life.

-Tahleel

[CountrySquire]

If these Japanese cars are so durable then why aren't more of them seen in fleet service. ie. Police or Taxi use? I understand that NYC PD has started using Altima's; it will be interesting to see how that experiment goes. I estimate the higher cost of routine maintenance and repairs will be too high and they will go back to domestics shortly.

[tahleel]

If these Japanese cars are so durable then why aren't more of them seen in fleet service. ie. Police or Taxi use? I understand that NYC PD has started using Altima's; it will be interesting to see how that experiment goes. I estimate the higher cost of routine maintenance and repairs will be too high and they will go back to domestics shortly.

Same reason why the newer Impalas, Magnums, and Chargers never caught on. These fleet mechanics know the Panther platform and 4.6L modular engines like the back of their hands. The Crown Vic [[and Lincoln Town Car, also Panther platform) are the only vehicles left that are built as a body-on-frame. The equipment that was installed in Crown Vics can be swapped throughout the years [[overhead lights, computer mounts, driver/passenger separators and etc.). It is cheaper to fit newer Crown Vics with used accessories from wrecked/retired CVs than to buy completely new ones. Also a complaint from the newer Magnums and Chargers were that the interior space was too confined.

It is definitely not the fabled "higher cost of maintenance and repairs."

-Tahleel

[CountrySquire]

"It is definitely not the fabled "higher cost of maintenance and repairs." "

Says who besides you? I know one business owner in Madison Heights MI who rents high mileage cars for discounted rates. He exclusively uses Ford Tauruses and will not even consider more Camrys or Accords because when he did the maintenance costs ate him alive. $900 brake jobs vs. $250 brake jobs is one compelling example he cited. The cost to insure was also higher as when there was a need for collision work the japanese cars always cost more to get back on the road.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

"It is definitely not the fabled "higher cost of maintenance and repairs." "

Says who besides you? I know one business owner in Madison Heights MI who rents high mileage cars for discounted rates. He exclusively uses Ford Tauruses and will not even consider more Camrys or Accords because when he did the maintenance costs ate him alive. $900 brake jobs vs. $250 brake jobs is one compelling example he cited. The cost to insure was also higher as when there was a need for collision work the japanese cars always cost more to get back on the road.

Very good point. A friend of mine, always purchased Cadillac's, until a few years ago. He decided to step up his game, and get a Mercedes. Boy, was he in for a suprise. After a year or two and a couple of trips to the dealer for a brake job and a strut replacement, he's crying the blues. The strut set him back $1,500.00 and the brakes were $870.00 and some change. He laments the decision now. "You gotta pay to play"

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Same reason why the newer Impalas, Magnums, and Chargers never caught on. These fleet mechanics know the Panther platform and 4.6L modular engines like the back of their hands. The Crown Vic [[and Lincoln Town Car, also Panther platform) are the only vehicles left that are built as a body-on-frame. The equipment that was installed in Crown Vics can be swapped throughout the years [[overhead lights, computer mounts, driver/passenger separators and etc.). It is cheaper to fit newer Crown Vics with used accessories from wrecked/retired CVs than to buy completely new ones. Also a complaint from the newer Magnums and Chargers were that the interior space was too confined.

It is definitely not the fabled "higher cost of maintenance and repairs."

-Tahleel

What are the Taxi fleets, law enforcement agencies and fire departments going to do when the Crown Vic goes out of production next year? If it hasn't been discontinued already.

[tahleel]

"It is definitely not the fabled "higher cost of maintenance and repairs." "

Says who besides you? I know one business owner in Madison Heights MI who rents high mileage cars for discounted rates. He exclusively uses Ford Tauruses and will not even consider more Camrys or Accords because when he did the maintenance costs ate him alive. $900 brake jobs vs. $250 brake jobs is one compelling example he cited. The cost to insure was also higher as when there was a need for collision work the japanese cars always cost more to get back on the road.

$900 for a brake job? How about this, I'll give him a deal, and do it for half off at $450.

Says who besides you?

Still think foreign auto parts are more expensive than domestic? You said your friend rents higher mileage cars [[assuming late 90s, early 2000s). I quoted two 2000 model year cars, one American and one Foreign. These figures are straight from the Autozone's website with part numbers if you want to check them yourself. These are the cheapest options either model offered, no number games.

2000 Honda Accord - Brake Pads - DG465A - $34.99
2000 Honda Accord - Brake Rotor - 31243 - $21.99




2000 Ford Taurus - Brake Pads - DGC601 - $59.99
2000 Ford Taurus - Brake Rotor - DGR54010 - $49.99






As far as insurance costing more on a foreign car, this is what Forbes stated the top ten cheapest cars to insure:

1. Hyundai Santa Fe [[SUV): $832
2. Kia Sportage [[SUV): $840
3. Hyundai Entourage [[Minivan): $848
4. Kia Sedona [[Minivan): $857
5. Kia Rio5 [[Passenger): $857
6. Honda Odyssey [[Minivan): $871
7. Smart fortwo [[Passenger): $881
8. Saturn Vue [[SUV): $911
9. Mazda Tribute [[SUV): $913
10. Chrysler Town & Country [[Minivan): $915

Look at that, the list is full of foreign companies. Also, as a car rental company, shouldn't the customers bring their own insurance or pay $X amount of dollars to buy insurance from him?

Maybe your friend should reconsider his fleet, it might just save him money!

Yes, thats what everyone else says, besides me.

-Tahleel

[tahleel]

What are the Taxi fleets, law enforcement agencies and fire departments going to do when the Crown Vic goes out of production next year? If it hasn't been discontinued already.

2011 will be the last year of production for the Crown Vic. They've already discontinued the model for public sale. If I knew what these agencies were going to use to replace the CV, I'd be rich because none of these agencies know themselves. Ford has introduced the new Taurus to police departments. Chevy did the Impala. Chrysler did the Charger/Magnum [[which has failed durability testing).

-Tahleel

[Cincinnati_Kid]

2011 will be the last year of production for the Crown Vic. They've already discontinued the model for public sale. If I knew what these agencies were going to use to replace the CV, I'd be rich because none of these agencies know themselves. Ford has introduced the new Taurus to police departments. Chevy did the Impala. Chrysler did the Charger/Magnum [[which has failed durability testing).

-Tahleel

Taurus is too small, equivilent in size to the Impala and Charger. Magnum is discontinued as well. No more full size cars are available except the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS and those are too expensive.

[tahleel]

Taurus is too small, equivilent in size to the Impala and Charger. Magnum is discontinued as well. No more full size cars are available except the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS and those are too expensive.

Exactly. There are no more full-size [[or even RWD) cars that are left that these agencies can afford. From the articles that I've read, agencies are increasing the number of vehicles bought [[and using them later) due to discontinuing, and extending the service life of these vehicles by retiring them later.

-Tahleel

[detmsp]

I don't understand how this is misinformation. The plant Ford is proposing in China will build 150K Foci a year. The other plants in Australia or Argentina you mentioned might be capable of what 10K units per year? You can't convince me the Chinese will buy all those 150K Foci per year, so where do you think the remainder will wind up? The article said Ford plans to sell these cars GLOBALLY.

jesus christ it's like talking to a wall. Ford has already confirmed that the Focus will be produced in Wayne, Michigan [[which is not in China) for the NA market. You also clearly don't have much of a concept of what a reasonable sales volume is. China is the largest car market in the world. You think they can't sell 150,000 Focuses in China? They sell nearly that many in the UK [[137,000 or so in 2007), which has an auto market about the size of China's auto market's left nut.

[CountrySquire]

jesus christ it's like talking to a wall. Ford has already confirmed that the Focus will be produced in Wayne, Michigan [[which is not in China) for the NA market. You also clearly don't have much of a concept of what a reasonable sales volume is. China is the largest car market in the world. You think they can't sell 150,000 Focuses in China? They sell nearly that many in the UK [[137,000 or so in 2007), which has an auto market about the size of China's auto market's left nut.

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Ford help out our fellow country men that need work first before getting a pleasant reach around from China? Why can't Wayne Assembly build cars for export to China?

[tahleel]

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Ford help out our fellow country men that need work first before getting a pleasant reach around from China? Why can't Wayne Assembly build cars for export to China?

Don't ask me, ask the people like BuyAmerican who thinks the Big Three gives a rats ass about American workers.

-Tahleel

[darwinism]

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Ford help out our fellow country men that need work first before getting a pleasant reach around from China? Why can't Wayne Assembly build cars for export to China?

The answer lies with the hard-core die-hard union members like Sstashmoo and BuyAmerican, who along with the Big 3, are the smartest on the face of the earth. Oh, by the way, my uncle and my father-in-law are both union members ..... but even they could understand that our society in 2009 is completely different from the society back in May 1935 when the UAW was founded.

[TKshreve]

Tahleel wrote:

Improve the Big 3 even more? You mean even more than the hundreds of billions of our tax dollars spent by bailing them out? What did they do? They paid off their creditors, and filed for bankruptcy anyways. Thanks for wasting my tax dollars!

I'm sorry, I know this was quoted well at the beginning of the thread, but.........

Care to show me where:
hundreds of billions of dollars were spent?

Or was it more like:
tens of billions of dollars were loaned.

My understanding was the bankruptcy also was done to save money in the long run. Where is your contempt for the bank bailouts where:
hundreds of billions of dollars were spent without any oversight or consequence?
How many executives did they ask to step down?

Pick your battles Tahleel.


BuyAmerican wrote:

When Detroit is a ghost town and the State of Michigan is a wasteland I hope you foreign buyers choke on your lame excuses not to support the U.S.A.

Detroit, Lansing, Pontiac, Saginaw, Flint, Downriver burbs, Kalamazoo, Ypsi, St. Joe, Muskegon, Benton Harbor, Toledo........ need I go on? We are there bub.