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Thread: Foreign Cars.

  1. #126
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    We need to start by forcing our own so called "Domestic" auto makers to build their stuff here, Yesterday's Autobeat daily had back to back stories touting Ford's new plant in China that will build 150K Ford Focuses a year, and that Hyundai is opening a new plant in one of our Southern States to build an SUV. You know damn well most of those 150K Chineses Focuses are intended to be sold here.
    Last edited by CountrySquire; September-29-09 at 09:26 AM.

  2. #127
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    If free trade is fair, then why do we allow Asia to tax and tariff our products to the point that only few things are purchased?If trade is to be truly fair, then should we not impose the same restrictions on them as they do on us?
    Maybe if we all decided that free trade was the answer to all our problems, I would be able to purchase affordable Health, home, and Auto insurance, from south east Asia. Fair is fair, right?
    Sure you say what about all the people that work in the insurance industry, and all the jobs that would be lost from people that feed off the insurance industry. That would not be at all acceptable would it? Those people would lose their jobs, just like I lost my job as a tool & die maker (for 30 years). They would have to re-train and re-educate themselves just as I must do. Almost a half million people un employed in Michigan. When will Uncle Sam wake up? He will never wake up, because he is trying to be the head of a one world government.

  3. #128
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    Good points phact! I would like affordable health insurance from Korea.

    FWIW My daughter will be 16 in January and her dream car is a Mustang Covertible. When I took her on the Woodward cruise with me she spent the whole time ogling the mustangs and berating those that dared to bring a foreign make car out to Woodward.
    Last edited by CountrySquire; September-29-09 at 12:30 PM.

  4. #129
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    That's a good girl. May I asume that the fruit didn't fall to far from the tree?

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearinabox View Post
    Convinced that I should care whether people in Georgia have jobs. Convinced that buying a Kia is in any way good for Southeast Michigan.
    What Detroiters have to wake up to is the fact that many people in the other 49 states don't any more care whether people in Michigan have jobs. It may be an important issue to Detroiters, but other than that, people just want the best car value for the money. And if that means they wind up supporting a producer in a right to work state rather than a Detroit union shop, they've got no problem with it as long as they're getting a better product and better service for the money. And if their experience is anything like mine, they are!

    Rather than cry and moan and accuse people of being unAmerican, maybe some people had better wake up and start producing better products and a more competitive price, and offering better customer service. That would be a lot more effective tactic for regaining market share than whining and moaning and wringing hands and gnashing teeth and sputtering about how the rest of America somehow owes more to southeast Michigan than any other region of the country "just because."

    When it comes to selfish, myopic regionalism and once all local bias is removed from the picture, there's really no objective difference between Sen. Corker and his Michigan congressional counterparts. Everybody's fighting for local employment - and that is their right. But if they really want to win the fight, the people wanting to keep these jobs would be better to get off their duffs and start doing something about improving their competiveness - in both quality and price - than just continuing to get offended and sling insults at each other. The day Detroit consistently offers a better package than Toyota, Detroit will excel in sales and Toyota will be flirting with bankruptcy. Until then, expect more of the status quo.
    Last edited by EMG; September-29-09 at 03:07 PM.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountrySquire View Post
    We need to start by forcing our own so called "Domestic" auto makers to build their stuff here, Yesterday's Autobeat daily had back to back stories touting Ford's new plant in China that will build 150K Ford Focuses a year, and that Hyundai is opening a new plant in one of our Southern States to build an SUV. You know damn well most of those 150K Chineses Focuses are intended to be sold here.
    Actually I know damn well that you're completely full of BS. The next generation focus for NA will be built in two plants right here in Michigan.

  7. #132

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    Buy American,
    Porque tan es silencioso?

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by detrola View Post
    Buy American,
    Porque tan es silencioso?
    Sad times detrola.
    Nothing much to say. Just watching my country go to hell, piece by piece.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMG View Post
    What Detroiters have to wake up to is the fact that many people in the other 49 states don't any more care whether people in Michigan have jobs. It may be an important issue to Detroiters, but other than that, people just want the best car value for the money. And if that means they wind up supporting a producer in a right to work state rather than a Detroit union shop, they've got no problem with it as long as they're getting a better product and better service for the money. And if their experience is anything like mine, they are!

    Rather than cry and moan and accuse people of being unAmerican, maybe some people had better wake up and start producing better products and a more competitive price, and offering better customer service. That would be a lot more effective tactic for regaining market share than whining and moaning and wringing hands and gnashing teeth and sputtering about how the rest of America somehow owes more to southeast Michigan than any other region of the country "just because."

    When it comes to selfish, myopic regionalism and once all local bias is removed from the picture, there's really no objective difference between Sen. Corker and his Michigan congressional counterparts. Everybody's fighting for local employment - and that is their right. But if they really want to win the fight, the people wanting to keep these jobs would be better to get off their duffs and start doing something about improving their competiveness - in both quality and price - than just continuing to get offended and sling insults at each other. The day Detroit consistently offers a better package than Toyota, Detroit will excel in sales and Toyota will be flirting with bankruptcy. Until then, expect more of the status quo.
    Good post, EMG.

    Bearinabox, truth be told ..... our region really, really needs to have a major attitude overhaul. This is a very serious flaw that causes every single person in Southeast Michigan lifelong dilemmas. Folks here have got to stop feeling that they deserve the world, and are entitled to everything under the sun, because they revolutionize the auto industry. It is time to let it go. The entire country has moved on. The entire world has moved on.

    The sooner we change our attitude, the sooner we can begin to work hard again for a brighter future. Anything short of that, we are back to exactly where we have been for decades ..... the memory of us revolutionizing the auto industry, the memory of the riot and everything else that has stuck in our minds for generations. That is why folks like BuyAmerican needs to truly look deep and hard at the people he/she loves, and stop trying to get them to believe in the same mentality.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by darwinism View Post
    Good post, EMG.

    Bearinabox, truth be told ..... our region really, really needs to have a major attitude overhaul. This is a very serious flaw that causes every single person in Southeast Michigan lifelong dilemmas. Folks here have got to stop feeling that they deserve the world, and are entitled to everything under the sun, because they revolutionize the auto industry. It is time to let it go. The entire country has moved on. The entire world has moved on.

    The sooner we change our attitude, the sooner we can begin to work hard again for a brighter future. Anything short of that, we are back to exactly where we have been for decades ..... the memory of us revolutionizing the auto industry, the memory of the riot and everything else that has stuck in our minds for generations. That is why folks like BuyAmerican needs to truly look deep and hard at the people he/she loves, and stop trying to get them to believe in the same mentality.
    Tell me about now darwinism...tell me what Michigan can look forward to for, lets say, the next 5 years, without the auto industry. What is the unemployment rate today in Michigan? It was 15.2% in August. The attitude overhaul you're speaking about will be people leaving Michigan, not the rah rah spitit I think you are talking about. My neighbors, my friends, some in my family, can't just go out and put a wind farm in their backyards or dig for oil. They had jobs with the auto industry or jobs that were affiliated with the auto industry. Others had jobs that depended on the auto workers for their livelihoods.
    To change your career midlife is very difficult for many, impossible for others. Go to school, learn something different, get that newly formed job at that newly formed company is a dream for a long time. It's not an overnight process. What happens in the interim? Does the bank wait for the house payment? Will the hospital put the bill aside until health benefits are reinstated? Will they be able to educate their kids? There are lots of questions and lots of displaced people with absolutely no where to go.
    I don't think that folks in Michigan think they "deserve the world" darwinism. Anyone working for an American Auto Company worked hard and long to eek a living. You say the country has moved on, that the entire world has moved on... I say that those who don't support the country where their bread is buttered should move on and leave the U.S. to those who want to support it.

    You say "The sooner we change our attitude, the sooner we can begin to work hard again for a brighter future. " Tell me, what is that brighter future you're talking about?

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buy American View Post
    Tell me about now darwinism...tell me what Michigan can look forward to for, lets say, the next 5 years, without the auto industry. What is the unemployment rate today in Michigan? It was 15.2% in August. The attitude overhaul you're speaking about will be people leaving Michigan, not the rah rah spitit I think you are talking about. My neighbors, my friends, some in my family, can't just go out and put a wind farm in their backyards or dig for oil. They had jobs with the auto industry or jobs that were affiliated with the auto industry. Others had jobs that depended on the auto workers for their livelihoods.
    To change your career midlife is very difficult for many, impossible for others. Go to school, learn something different, get that newly formed job at that newly formed company is a dream for a long time. It's not an overnight process. What happens in the interim? Does the bank wait for the house payment? Will the hospital put the bill aside until health benefits are reinstated? Will they be able to educate their kids? There are lots of questions and lots of displaced people with absolutely no where to go.
    I don't think that folks in Michigan think they "deserve the world" darwinism. Anyone working for an American Auto Company worked hard and long to eek a living. You say the country has moved on, that the entire world has moved on... I say that those who don't support the country where their bread is buttered should move on and leave the U.S. to those who want to support it.

    You say "The sooner we change our attitude, the sooner we can begin to work hard again for a brighter future. " Tell me, what is that brighter future you're talking about?
    Good questions, Buy American, good questions indeed.

    I will give you straight answers, personally.

    First and foremost, we do not need to look ahead in 5-years without a viable and healthy auto industry. The fact is, we haven't had a viable and healthy auto industry for the past 10-15 years, if not longer. Southeast Michigan has been bleeding money and people during that time, if not longer.

    Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly support the hard-working men and women who truly work their ass off day-in and day-out to build the best product in the world. Props go out to the fine folks in Lake Orion who build my new 2009 Chevy Malibu.

    Detrola made an excellent point concerning outsourcing manufacturing. Why would you support Ford for building the highly popular Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan in Mexico ? If you support them for doing that, chances are good they will do that even more, and eventually ALL Ford auto manufacturing will be done in Mexico. Why wouldn't you support Toyota and Honda who employ our hard-working Americans in Indiana, Ohio, Alabama and Kentucky ? Because the so-called "profits" go to Japan ? Do you think the Ford "profits" ever reach your children's pockets ? I didn't think so either, unless your children's last name is Ford. So, why are you defending their outsourcing of jobs ? You should in fact be outraged at companies like Ford for outsourcing manufacturing jobs. You should be outraged at companies like Chrysler for building bad products and being managed poorly, that they needed to be passed around like a rag-doll from the Germans to a private equity firm, and now to the Italians.

    Yes, it is indeed difficult to make changes mid-career. No doubt about that. Lots of people outside of Michigan go through the exact same grueling experience every single day, Buy American. Do you think the steel workers in Pennsylvania had an easy time ? Do you think the construction workers in Florida, California and Las Vegas had an easy time when the real estate building boom came to a halt ? They have families too, they have house payments, medical bills, and all the obligations that Metro Detroit autoworkers have. Yet the steel workers, electricians, carpenters, and so on, moved on ..... made things happen ..... and charged forward into a brighter future doing something else that came with a stable paycheck.

    Buy American, the brighter future I am talking about is a future of Metro Detroiters that are nimble, capable of diversity and change, problem-solvers instead of constant-bitchers, intelligent and open to lifelong-education, as well as the willingness to let history be history. It is wrong to wish the worst for good people in Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Georgia and Alabama who enjoy their jobs at Honda, Toyota and Kia. It is just downright wrong, because guess what ..... Michigan can just as well call it quits, if it ever, ever, ever thinks that it is so special that people in the other 49 states and the District of Columbia should bow to it for guidance. Get real ! If anything, Michigan needs more friends, not foes.

  12. #137
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    Michigan is just another place on the map. What's so special about our area that we need a factory more than Georgia? Those people in Georgia are humans, too. Some of you act like they're not. Just because they're in some far off land does not mean their emotions don't mean a thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmsp View Post
    Actually I know damn well that you're completely full of BS. The next generation focus for NA will be built in two plants right here in Michigan.
    Maybe so, then why does Ford need that kind of capacity in China then?

    Amid weakness at home, Ford, Toyota turn to China
    By Dan Strumpf, AP Auto Writer
    NEW YORK — Ford Motor(F) plans to build a third assembly plant in China while Toyota Motor (TM) will start selling an entry-level family car there, as the world's automakers pour more resources into the fast-growing Chinese car market amid weakness in their home countries.
    Ford said Friday it plans to spend $490 million on the assembly plant in China. The factory will make the next-generation Focus compact car, which Ford plans to sell globally.
    Last edited by CountrySquire; September-30-09 at 07:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CountrySquire View Post
    Maybe so, then why does Ford need that kind of capacity in China then?
    Maybe the Chinese market has matured enough to need that kind of capacity. It's near impossible to import cars into China, so if you plan to sell there you need to be able to build there.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountrySquire View Post
    Maybe so, then why does Ford need that kind of capacity in China then?

    Amid weakness at home, Ford, Toyota turn to China
    By Dan Strumpf, AP Auto Writer
    NEW YORK — Ford Motor(F) plans to build a third assembly plant in China while Toyota Motor (TM) will start selling an entry-level family car there, as the world's automakers pour more resources into the fast-growing Chinese car market amid weakness in their home countries.
    Ford said Friday it plans to spend $490 million on the assembly plant in China. The factory will make the next-generation Focus compact car, which Ford plans to sell globally.
    Maybe they need capactiy in China to build cars for the world's largest auto market, which is conveniently located in nerby... China.

    If the fact that there will be a Chinese assembly plant of the Focus means they will be importing the Focus from China to the US, you could use that same logic to infer that the Focus is already imported from the following countries:

    China (that's right, there is already an assembly plant in China cranking out the Focus)
    Australia
    Argentina
    Mexico
    South Africa
    Germany
    Philippines
    Portugal
    Taiwan
    Spain
    Russia
    Vietnam

    And then of course there is also an assembly plant right here in Michigan.

    It's a global car... made all over the world, sold all over the world. Quit spreading misinformation.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountrySquire View Post
    Maybe so, then why does Ford need that kind of capacity in China then?

    Amid weakness at home, Ford, Toyota turn to China
    By Dan Strumpf, AP Auto Writer
    NEW YORK — Ford Motor(F) plans to build a third assembly plant in China while Toyota Motor (TM) will start selling an entry-level family car there, as the world's automakers pour more resources into the fast-growing Chinese car market amid weakness in their home countries.
    Ford said Friday it plans to spend $490 million on the assembly plant in China. The factory will make the next-generation Focus compact car, which Ford plans to sell globally.

    The title of this article pretty much sums up why they are building foreign factories. Dont point the finger at Ford for building foreign factories, it is just trying to survive. Instead point the finger in the mirror, or your driveway.
    (not talking about you countrysquire, just quoting your article)

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo
    I've pretty much deduced this site is mostly fresh out of community college kids. No life experience beyond what they see on television or garnered from a video game. Let them fund foreign corporations, let them send our American dollars away, and get cheap Chinese shit in return. The economy, our society-our very way of US life is vaporizing before us and they are too stupid to realize it. You and I, and folks like us have something to gauge today against, a much different yesterday, a time of sensibilities. As we have learned from real life experience, and our parents taught us, hang on and cover your ass, it's going to be a rough ride. It's their future they are destroying, my future and hopefully yours too is relatively secure. Let em' have it. They're making their own bed, the one they'll be sleeping in.
    So, how old of a person are you ? And what robust life experiences do you have that provided you with all the intelligence and knowledge to tackle this new world order that you are bracing for ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo View Post
    Quote: "Why would you support Ford for building the highly popular Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan in Mexico ?"

    You didn't ask me, but I'll answer. Ford is doing what it has to do to survive. Do you really think if all Americans understood the importance of supporting domestic companies and only purchased from those companies, that Ford would build a plant in China? You're taking things out of context, and way after the fact.
    For the record, nothing is being taken out of context. Do you even know the definition of the word 'context' ? This thread relates to comparing foreign vs. domestic vehicles. The discussion centers around how we can all just calm down and understand the situation better on a macro-economic level, as well as a micro-economic level. The notion of Ford building its most highly acclaimed Fusion and Mercury Milan in Mexico instead of in the U.S. of A, fits into the discussion dead-on, and perfectly within the context of the debate.

    And oh ..... before I forget, perhaps it might hurt your ego, but despite your misconceptions above regarding the demographics of DetroitYes, the reality of the matter is that DetroitYes reaches far beyond the under-20 age group, or the boundaries of Michigan. With that in mind, it might actually surprise you that the majority of the folks on here are older than you think, and more experienced than you would like.

    Therefore, if you do in fact have a solid, tangible solution and primary source citations to support your viewpoints ..... let's hear it.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahleel View Post
    Let me get this right. You're against buying a type of car that was built in California (Honda Civic) or designed in Ann Arbor (Toyota Solara). But you are for buying a car that was designed in Europe, parts made in Canada, and assembled in Mexico (the first gen Focus)?

    Most newer American cars are designed, manufactured (parts), and assembled in other countries. Even for the select few that are still assembled here, the majority of their parts are made internationally. The term "American cars" are a namesake for the ignorant.

    Toyota and GM has had a long standing relationship (New United Motor Manufacturing). Mitsubishi, Chrysler and Hyundai/Kia has shared engines and technology for decades (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance). Ford has also had a long standing relationship with Mazda, Nissan (see Mercury Villager/Nissan Quest), Range Rover and Jaguar.

    Also, I do not understand why you are against her buying a Kia. Do you not realize how many more jobs are created BECAUSE Kia is here? New dealerships, salesmen, service techs and supplier jobs just to name a few.

    -Tahleel
    No new jobs. They are just replacement jobs.

    And please, the tired "I can name a foreign car that is built here and a domestic that isn't, so it makes it okay to buy foreign" is so lame. I wouldn't buy either one.

    Here's what I do:

    Ford Focus, Ford Mustang, Ford F-150.

    Designed here, built here, profits go here. All 3 are very important. And by "here" I not only mean the USA, I mean Michigan.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo View Post
    No, it fits your attempt at defending an ideology doomed for failure.
    Ideology ? Are you kidding me ? Ideology ? You're trying to turn this thread into a political one, aren't you ? Oh no, I'm not going there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo View Post
    Who is upset and needs calming? I wasn't upset when I wrote "Let em' have it". I have opted to step aside and watch the "globalization" brainwashed shove the US way of life in the nearest ditch. While I protect myself of course. Enjoy yourselves.
    Well, well, well ..... what exactly is the US way of life that is going into the ditch, if I may ask ? And since you didn't answer the other questions that were asked, here they are again - So, how old of a person are you ? And what robust life experiences do you have that provided you with all the intelligence and knowledge to tackle this new world order that you are bracing for ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo View Post
    While were quizzing each others lexicon, do you know the meaning of "coherent"?
    Yes, I do, indeed.

  20. #145
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    I don't understand how this is misinformation. The plant Ford is proposing in China will build 150K Foci a year. The other plants in Australia or Argentina you mentioned might be capable of what 10K units per year? You can't convince me the Chinese will buy all those 150K Foci per year, so where do you think the remainder will wind up? The article said Ford plans to sell these cars GLOBALLY.

    Quote Originally Posted by detmsp View Post
    Maybe they need capactiy in China to build cars for the world's largest auto market, which is conveniently located in nerby... China.

    If the fact that there will be a Chinese assembly plant of the Focus means they will be importing the Focus from China to the US, you could use that same logic to infer that the Focus is already imported from the following countries:

    China (that's right, there is already an assembly plant in China cranking out the Focus)
    Australia
    Argentina
    Mexico
    South Africa
    Germany
    Philippines
    Portugal
    Taiwan
    Spain
    Russia
    Vietnam

    And then of course there is also an assembly plant right here in Michigan.

    It's a global car... made all over the world, sold all over the world. Quit spreading misinformation.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by East Detroit View Post
    No new jobs. They are just replacement jobs.

    And please, the tired "I can name a foreign car that is built here and a domestic that isn't, so it makes it okay to buy foreign" is so lame. I wouldn't buy either one.

    Here's what I do:

    Ford Focus, Ford Mustang, Ford F-150.

    Designed here, built here, profits go here. All 3 are very important. And by "here" I not only mean the USA, I mean Michigan.
    Very good, East Detroit.

    That's exactly what I did when I bought my new 2009 Chevy Malibu. A current GM engineer friend of mine who works at the Warren Tech Center strongly recommends it because it is designed, built and sold right here in Southeast Michigan between the assembly factory floor in Lake Orion to my driveway.

    Oh ..... by the way ..... despite all the pro-domestics buying American movement going on in this thread, it seems like none of them have actually said anything about having bought a late model 2008, 2009 or 2010 domestic nameplate built-in-Michigan vehicle. Hmmm, am I the only one who is putting my money where my mouth is ? Pipe up, folks, if you are really supporting Michigan-made cars. Eager to hear if most of these folks are just posers, or just folks going to the used car lot. So much for supporting Michigan manufacturing and the autoworkers. Go ahead and make yourself feel good because you just bought a used 2004 Pontiac Sunfire or a used 2003 Chevy Silverado.
    Last edited by darwinism; September-30-09 at 01:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndavies View Post
    Maybe the Chinese market has matured enough to need that kind of capacity. It's near impossible to import cars into China, so if you plan to sell there you need to be able to build there.

    Sounds like they have the right idea in China. I wish our government would protect us the same way.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo View Post
    BuyAmerican,

    I've pretty much deduced this site is mostly fresh out of community college kids. No life experience beyond what they see on television or garnered from a video game. Let them fund foreign corporations, let them send our American dollars away, and get cheap Chinese shit in return. The economy, our society-our very way of US life is vaporizing before us and they are too stupid to realize it. You and I, and folks like us have something to gauge today against, a much different yesterday, a time of sensibilities. As we have learned from real life experience, and our parents taught us, hang on and cover your ass, it's going to be a rough ride. It's their future they are destroying, my future and hopefully yours too is relatively secure. Let em' have it. They're making their own bed, the one they'll be sleeping in.
    Sstashmoo, you are 100% correct. My future is secure and I'm glad that yours is too. My regret is that my grandchildren will never know how things could have been because this generation of idiots just don't get it.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sstashmoo View Post
    Quote: "So, how old of a person are you ?"

    None of your business.

    Quote: "And what robust life experiences do you have"

    Also, none of your business.

    Quote: "what exactly is the US way of life that is going into the ditch, if I may ask ? "

    The fact that you need to ask...
    Of course it is none of our business, after all, you are the one who needs to establish credibility on this forum. By providing absolutely nothing other than spiteful comments, we actually didn't even need to ask about "your US way of life", but we thought we'd try to give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Well, since you are so cordial in your response, perhaps you should know that the majority of the DetroitYes community can already figure out on our own. DetroitYes forumers are actually a very sharp group of folks here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darwinism View Post
    Very good, East Detroit.

    That's exactly what I did when I bought my new 2009 Chevy Malibu. A current GM engineer friend of mine who works at the Warren Tech Center strongly recommends it because it is designed, built and sold right here in Southeast Michigan between the assembly factory floor in Lake Orion to my driveway.

    Oh ..... by the way ..... despite all the pro-domestics buying American movement going on in this thread, it seems like none of them have actually said anything about having bought a late model 2008, 2009 or 2010 domestic nameplate built-in-Michigan vehicle. Hmmm, am I the only one who is putting my money where my mouth is ? Pipe up, folks, if you are really supporting Michigan-made cars. Eager to hear if most of these folks are just posers, or just folks going to the used car lot. So much for supporting Michigan manufacturing and the autoworkers. Go ahead and make yourself feel good because you just bought a used 2004 Pontiac Sunfire or a used 2003 Chevy Silverado.

    I've done the same as yourself, Darwinism as I purchased a 2009 Pontiac G6, which was built at the same Orion plant that builds the Malibu. Even though Pontiac is going away, I bought it. I've always liked Pontiac's and think GM is doing itself a serious injustice eliminating the proud marque that created the "muscle car" and was established in 1926.
    Last edited by Cincinnati_Kid; September-30-09 at 02:23 PM.

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