Foreign Cars.

[wash_man]

While it is true that this entire region's economy was based on one industry for decades, and we did fail to diversify, that is no reason to turn our backs on the domestic auto manufacturers. The fact is that this area still depends on the domestic auto industry, even in it's shrunken state, for the bulk of employment around here either directly or indirectly.

Nor is it a good reason to abandon American makes because your 1977 Chevrolet would not start one morning 30 years ago. The big three did make some crappy cars in the past and so did the Japanese. But today's GM cars equal and in many cases surpass the quality of most imports.

The next time one considers buying an imported car they should stop and think about their relative or their neighbor who has lost his or her job because of the decline in the domestic automobile industry. You never know, you could be next.

Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign.

You guys just don't get it. Most people here aren't bashing the Big3 cars. The problem is that many [[if not most) or their vehicles are built OUTSIDE the U.S. That makes them FOREIGN in my book. I've also said THIS on many other threads: What if [[hypothetically) Ford, GM and Chrysler moved ALL of their production outside of the U.S.? Would you still not consider their cars foreign? BTW, if the trend keeps up, this won't be hypothetical, it will be reality. What jobs will they provide THEN? Accounting and marketing for a select few? If they want their cars considered domestic, then build them HERE!

[DC48080]

You guys just don't get it. Most people here aren't bashing the Big3 cars. The problem is that many [[if not most) or their vehicles are built OUTSIDE the U.S. That makes them FOREIGN in my book. I've also said THIS on many other threads: What if [[hypothetically) Ford, GM and Chrysler moved ALL of their production outside of the U.S.? Would you still not consider their cars foreign? BTW, if the trend keeps up, this won't be hypothetical, it will be reality. What jobs will they provide THEN? Accounting and marketing for a select few? If they want their cars considered domestic, then build them HERE!

Yes, a small amount of components of Big Three vehicles are sourced from overseas. [[My current GM vehicle contains 91% American made content according to the window stcker). But the profits from the purchase of the vehicles stay here in the U.S. The profits from the purchase of foreign cars go overseas.

And as to your hypothetical about GM, Ford and Chrysler moving all their production overseas: If that were to happen I would still purchase their products as long as the companies were headquartered here.

[wash_man]

Yes, a small amount of components of Big Three vehicles are sourced from overseas. [[My current GM vehicle contains 91% American made content according to the window stcker). But the profits from the purchase of the vehicles stay here in the U.S. The profits from the purchase of foreign cars go overseas.

And as to your hypothetical about GM, Ford and Chrysler moving all their production overseas: If that were to happen I would still purchase their products as long as the companies were headquartered here.

Re-check your window sticker. I'm sure it says "North American" content, not "American", thus it includes Mexico and Canada. Very deceptive.

[jtf1972]

“The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.” - Vladimir Lenon

Lenon could never have comprehended that one day, we would buy the rope from them to hang ourselves.

[xD_Brklyn]

In all seriousness, folks, we have had this exact discussion many, many, many times, right here on this forum.

Why does this conversation happen about once a month on this forum? Why don't the US car companies have some Think Tank that produces statistics, studies, white papers, ads, etc. documenting that buying American is better for Americans? Why is left to the unions or internet forums to answer this question?

I don't know but it seems like it would be worth their time and money to put some research into this question. I'll never drive anything but a Detroit-based product but that's because I have family and friends in the industry, so no argument is needed, but for others? It's odd that they have failed to follow up on the benefits of being US-based.

[wash_man]

Why does this conversation happen about once a month on this forum? Why don't the US car companies have some Think Tank that produces statistics, studies, white papers, ads, etc. documenting that buying American is better for Americans? Why is left to the unions or internet forums to answer this question?

I don't know but it seems like it would be worth their time and money to put some research into this question. I'll never drive anything but a Detroit-based product but that's because I have family and friends in the industry, so no argument is needed, but for others? It's odd that they have failed to follow up on the benefits of being US-based.

They are not talking about it because they don't want consumers to know where they build their cars. Most Fusion owners have no idea that it was assembled outside of the U.S. and I'm sure Ford would like to keep it that way. The window sticker says "final assembly location: Hermisillo" I guess most people just assume that's some where in our south west region. My question is why has it taken so long for the UAW to complain about it publicly like they are now doing at the Chrysler Sterling Heights Assembly Plant? Those people know for a fact that next year their plant will close and the operations are moving to Mexico to produce another "American" car.

[tahleel]

Why does this conversation happen about once a month on this forum? Why don't the US car companies have some Think Tank that produces statistics, studies, white papers, ads, etc. documenting that buying American is better for Americans? Why is left to the unions or internet forums to answer this question?

Why would an American car company spend money on research, only to expose that they truly aren't even American?

-Tahleel

[DC48080]

Spot on assessment Wazootyman. I could not have said it better myself.

[2blocksaway]

The problem with Detroit isn't all about foreign cars.

my 16-year-old daughter's mother .

Family situations like this aren't helping.

[darwinism]

Just to add a few more citations and resources to this thread for those who are not wearing "blinders".

Outside of Michigan ..... the rest of the United States consider the Toyota Camry the most "American" car today:

Link to CNN's article

Link to the Wall Street Journal's article

Link to Cars.com's "2009 Most American-Made Index"

When it comes down to it, all of the so-called pro-domestic supporters here are actually NOT pro-domestic ..... they are actually chanting "What You Drive, Drives Southeast Michigan" because all they care about is that Chrysler has a building in Auburn Hills. They have absolutely no concept of business-sense and trying to educate them is a lost cause. It is ignorance like that which is the downfall of this entire Southeast Michigan region.

Link to a discussion in a Seattle newspaper for yet another perspective of what folks think in the other parts of the nation that make up the United States of America

*p/s: Oh ..... just in case some of you failed Geography in school, Michigan is NOT the entirety of America ! When you say Buy American, please remember that Michigan is just 1 out of 50 states plus the District of Columbia !! When someone buys a Toyota and Honda, the states of Kentucky, Alabama, Ohio and Indiana are actually pretty happy ..... because for them ..... buying Toyota and Honda is indeed Buying American.

[Bearinabox]

Just to add a few more citations and resources to this thread for those who are not wearing "blinders".

Outside of Michigan ..... the rest of the United States consider the Toyota Camry the most "American" car today:

Link to CNN's article

Link to the Wall Street Journal's article

Link to Cars.com's "2009 Most American-Made Index"

When it comes down to it, all of the so-called pro-domestic supporters here are actually NOT pro-domestic ..... they are actually chanting "What You Drive, Drives Southeast Michigan" because all they care about is that Chrysler has a building in Auburn Hills. They have absolutely no concept of business-sense and trying to educate them is a lost cause. It is ignorance like that which is the downfall of this entire Southeast Michigan region.

Link to a discussion in a Seattle newspaper for yet another perspective of what folks think in the other parts of the nation that make up the United States of America

*p/s: Oh ..... just in case some of you failed Geography in school, Michigan is NOT the entirety of America ! When you say Buy American, please remember that Michigan is just 1 out of 50 states plus the District of Columbia !! When someone buys a Toyota and Honda, the states of Kentucky, Alabama, Ohio and Indiana are actually pretty happy ..... because for them ..... buying Toyota and Honda is indeed Buying American.

As someone who has never failed geography in school, I'm aware that I live in Michigan, and that Michigan's economy is what is immediately relevant to me. If people in Kentucky or Alabama have jobs, that's great for them, but I don't care any more about them than I care about people in Mexico or Japan.

[wash_man]

Here's another one. A Chrysler 300. U.S./Canada content lumped together at 63%. Since the car makers require most suppliers to congregate near the assembly plant, it's logical that most of that 63% is Canadian. That would make this "American" car less than 50% domestic.

http://www.chrysler.com/hostc/getWin...KA43D19H574891

[lilpup]

Since the car makers require most suppliers to congregate near the assembly plant,

We left the 1960s quite some time ago, dear.

[wash_man]

We left the 1960s quite some time ago, dear.

Do you even have a clue? If anything, suppliers are moving even closer to the plants, sometimes even under the same roof. [[Toledo ring a bell?)

[lilpup]

Toyota still imports almost 50% of what they sell in North America. Don't bitch at us because the average American car buyer is an ignorant fuck.

[darwinism]

Toyota still imports almost 50% of what they sell in North America. Don't bitch at us because the average American car buyer is an ignorant fuck.

Please allow me to put your words in a way that is easier for folks to understand:

DetroitYes forumer buying Ford to support Mexico + Southeast Michigan = Genius

Average car buyer representing 49 states and the District of Columbia buying Toyota, Honda to support Kentucky + Indiana + Alabama + Ohio = Ignorant fuck

[skyl4rk]

Power to the consumer. The consumer should buy the car that fits their needs the best.

Having said that, the feds need to crack down on unfair trade.

[tahleel]

Having said that, the feds need to crack down on unfair trade.

How do you expect them to do that? Tax any automobile assembled outside the United States? It would harm all manufacturers because all of them have foreign plants.

-Tahleel

[wash_man]

How do you expect them to do that? Tax any automobile assembled outside the United States? It would harm all manufacturers because all of them have foreign plants.

-Tahleel

Exactly. That's why the D3 are not screaming for it. Imagine the outrage when someone went to purchase an Impala, a Fusion or a 300C and found out they had to pay an import tax on it. On the other hand, it might persuade them to move the production back here.

[tahleel]

Exactly. That's why the D3 are not screaming for it. Imagine the outrage when someone went to purchase an Impala, a Fusion or a 300C and found out they had to pay an import tax on it. On the other hand, it might persuade them to move the production back here.

It could definitely persuade them to move production back here. The catch to it is, they probably won't come to Michigan. Building a new plant in another state that would give them tons of incentives is cheaper than retooling a closed/existing plant here in Michigan.

-Tahleel

[detrola]

I'm shocked that Iheartthed, and Buyamerican are such strong proponents of OUTSOURCING. It is true, when you buy a Ford product that is manufactured in Mexico, the profit does indeed stay here in America. However when you engage in this kind of job costing behavior you only encourage further outsourcing of American jobs. You guys should be ashamed for promoting the outsourcing of American jobs.

The only true way to support American auto workers is to buy cars MADE IN AMERICA. This includes Honda, Toyota etc. These are facts. This is the world we live in today. Wakeup and support American Manufacturing.

[jjw]

Many times on this site, I read about the glories of the automobile industry and how Michigan has benefited from them. Exactly how has Michigan benefited in the past 50 years or so? These three companies could care less about Michigan or the Michigan worker. It's all been about making a shitty product and then cramming it down people's throats. Sit back and take a look at the metro area and tell me how the cars have helped it. What a laugh. And guess what? Most folks around the country feel your pain but don't quite understand how we should feel sorry for your predictament.
The argument about foreign vs. domestic is old. Get over it. Don't forget to enjoy all that grass and cement on your way home from work today. That's if you got a job!

[EMG]

Many times on this site, I read about the glories of the automobile industry and how Michigan has benefited from them. Exactly how has Michigan benefited in the past 50 years or so? These three companies could care less about Michigan or the Michigan worker. It's all been about making a shitty product and then cramming it down people's throats. Sit back and take a look at the metro area and tell me how the cars have helped it. What a laugh. And guess what? Most folks around the country feel your pain but don't quite understand how we should feel sorry for your predictament.

I couldn't agree more. Great post.

[thatguy123]

Again it has been posted before but here is a story of a certain automaker pretty much saving a town [[heres a hint, it isnt one of the big 3) http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/workl...own/index.html

Unfortunately many posters here are ignorant to the fact of how taxes and money made in foreign countries works. The majority of the money Kia, Toyota ect make here STAYS HERE and goes to US investors and so forth. It also goes to pay US workers. Do they send some money out of the country, absolutely. But guess what....So does GM, Ford and Chrysler. 100% of any money made [[do any of the big 3 make money?) does not stay in the US.

Unfortunately this is a tough concept for people like "BuyAmerican" to understand so they will keep arguing about something they are completely wrong about because as another poster stated, they think they are the smartest people alive.

[Bearinabox]

Again it has been posted before but here is a story of a certain automaker pretty much saving a town [[heres a hint, it isnt one of the big 3) http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/workl...own/index.html

So what you're saying is, between a Kia Sorento built 800 miles away in Georgia and a Chevy Equinox built 150 miles away in Ontario...

Nope, still not convinced.