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Thread: Foreign Cars.

  1. #1
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    Default Foreign Cars.

    I just found out my 16-year-old daughter's mother bought her the car of her dreams... a Kia Soul.

    I feel sick to my stomach.

    My kid has no job. She's been looking (probably not enough in my opinion) and keeps hearing that they aren't hiring people less than 18 due to the unemployment problem among adults. Her mother's job is in jeopardy. Her grandmother is unemployed & her uncle is scared to death. Yet she had her heart set on a Korean car.

    When her mother emailed me asking "Do you want to contribute to the car fund?" I had no clue they were on their way to buy... My reply was that I would contribute matching funds to whatever she saves toward purchasing an American car, if she kept her grades up.

    Part of me hopes this POS spends a great deal of time in the shop.

  2. #2
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    I would be sick, too. A friend of ours, who always bought American, gets a small pension from Chrysler from working there many years ago, bought a KIA. I couldn't believe it and then they had the nerve to ask me what I thought about it. I couldn't contain myself and told them that when the checks stopped from Chrysler, maybe KIA would send them a pension.

    I was also sickened by the fact that the Cash for Clunkers program helped foreign automakers more than the big 3. What a farse....I am starting to not trust my government.

    WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA.
    OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

  3. #3
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    Default

    No 16-year-old needs their own car.

  4. #4
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    Default Trade Imbalance?

    "The clearest gain concerns automobiles, hitherto a major US grievance and a large component of the bilateral trade deficit: during 2006, only about 4,000 US cars were sold in South Korea while South Korea's exports to the United States exceeded 800,000[2]. South Korean automakers sold 730,863 vehicles in the United States in 2005, while American auto companies sold only 5,795 in South Korea, according to Commerce Department figures[20]. The FTA will abolish taxes in South Korea on large cars produced in the United States, which US auto makers have long called an impediment to market access in Korea[16]."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_K...rade_Agreement

    We should be taxing the shit out of these car imports, who cares if we lose the sales of 4,000-6,000 vehicles.

  5. #5
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    Let me get this right. You're against buying a type of car that was built in California (Honda Civic) or designed in Ann Arbor (Toyota Solara). But you are for buying a car that was designed in Europe, parts made in Canada, and assembled in Mexico (the first gen Focus)?

    Most newer American cars are designed, manufactured (parts), and assembled in other countries. Even for the select few that are still assembled here, the majority of their parts are made internationally. The term "American cars" are a namesake for the ignorant.

    Toyota and GM has had a long standing relationship (New United Motor Manufacturing). Mitsubishi, Chrysler and Hyundai/Kia has shared engines and technology for decades (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance). Ford has also had a long standing relationship with Mazda, Nissan (see Mercury Villager/Nissan Quest), Range Rover and Jaguar.

    Also, I do not understand why you are against her buying a Kia. Do you not realize how many more jobs are created BECAUSE Kia is here? New dealerships, salesmen, service techs and supplier jobs just to name a few.

    -Tahleel

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russix View Post
    We should be taxing the shit out of these car imports, who cares if we lose the sales of 4,000-6,000 vehicles.
    I agree with you, but for a different reason.

    Taxing these vehicles will just raise the price of the vehicle for the consumer. It is a well known fact that buyers of import cars do not specifically buy imports because of their price, as most imports are actually more expensive than comparable "American cars". Furthurmore, American automobile manufacturers has to offer deep incentives to buy their vehicles, while most Foreign manufacturers offer little to no incentives at all. Most imports are sold at MSRP price, while "American" cars are sold well below list price.

    The reason I agree that we should tax these vehicles is because it would create more revenue for the government, but at the cost of the consumer.

    -Tahleel

  7. #7
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    The Soul is manufactured at Kia's Gwangju production facilities in South Korea.


    This is the only info I have found on where it is produced. Was it designed here? Did one single American have a job involved in any part of the vehicle?

    I don't like the production of cars by American companies outside of the US other than for foreign markets. I still would not own a foreign company's vehicle if it was made here. I'm for tariffs on ALL vehicles containing less than 75% American manufactured components and/or manufactured by companies based in other countries.

    I even look at the labels on products for sale. For example: I was buying medical tape. One was "Made in China," the other "Made in USA." Maybe some people would make excuses for why they should buy the Chinese. I proudly bought the American
    Last edited by jtf1972; September-26-09 at 04:49 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I work for a supplier that is owned by 4 very large Japanese companies and the last time I checked I WAS NOT paid in Yen. Should I give up my well paying job because you don't like competition?

    I guess all those people employed in the Toyota and Honda plants I visit should not spend the US dollars they earn in this country then.

    Why is the Walmart(I never shop there) lot full of vehicles plastered with pro union stickers????

    Most of you are living in a time that has long since passed and i feel sorry for you.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtf1972 View Post
    This is the only info I have found on where it is produced. Was it designed here? Did one single American have a job involved in any part of the vehicle?
    The U.S. GEMA (which has two plants in Michigan by the way) Beta/Gamma variant is used to power the Kia Soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtf1972 View Post
    I don't like the production of cars by American companies outside of the US other than for foreign markets. I still would not own a foreign company's vehicle if it was made here.
    Just wondering, what do you drive? Have you ever bought a replacement part for the vehicle? Do you know where the replacement parts were manufactured?

    Quote Originally Posted by jtf1972 View Post
    I'm not ever going to even ride in this car. I feel I failed as a father.
    If you do not ride in the vehicle that she dreamt of having and finally acquired, how does that make you any better of a father? Sounds pretty foolish to me.

    -Tahleel

  10. #10
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    What matters most is the bottom line....Chrysler's Headquarters is in Auburn Hills, they have assembly plants in Detroit. GM's headquarters is in the heart of Detroit. Ford's headquarters are in Dearborn. The profits from purchasing American cars, whether they were assembled in Canada or timbuckto, stay in the U.S. Why is that so hard for some to understand? Salaries earned by Americans working for foreign automakers stay here but the big profits from the sale of foreign automobiles assembled in the U.S. still go overseas. If I am wrong, please let me know.

  11. #11
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    If it makes you feel better, Kia's have slightly more resale value then used Kleenex. ( My neighbor really likes his Sorrento though )

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buy American View Post
    What matters most is the bottom line.... Chrysler's Headquarters is in Auburn Hills, they have assembly plants in Detroit.
    Oh, you mean the company that was 80%+ owned by Daimler (a German company), bailed out by the American government and is now controlled by Fiat (an Italian company).

    Quote Originally Posted by Buy American View Post
    GM's headquarters is in the heart of Detroit.
    You must mean the company that has been bailed out by tax payers and is now owned by the government. You must also mean the same company that has threatened to leave the Ren Cen and "the heart of Detroit" for years to suburbs like Auburn Hills, Warren and Troy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buy American View Post
    The profits from purchasing American cars, whether they were assembled in Canada or timbuckto, stay in the U.S. Why is that so hard for some to understand? Salaries earned by Americans working for foreign automakers stay here but the big profits from the sale of foreign automobiles assembled in the U.S. still go overseas.
    What profits? The Big three had losing quarters for YEARS. The profits, if any, would go to the shareholders and investors. My GF's parents had shares of GM, that aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. Hmm, what is left besides the profit? I know, the labor and material cost! If the assembly labor is provided by employees in foreign nations, and parts are shipped from foreign countries, what is left? Nothing! What part of that do YOU not understand? All of OUR American dollars are shipped overseas from supporting this "American" companies. I will go over it if needed, this time, take notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buy American View Post
    If I am wrong, please let me know.
    Sorry, you couldn't be any more wrong.

    -Tahleel

  13. #13
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    I can understand people outside of Michigan buying foreign cars (though I despise it), but I cannot understand buying a foreign car in Michigan, unless you work for one of the few foreign companies in the state.

    The American auto industry built Michigan. You live in Michigan, you buy American. Period. Ford, GM, & Chrysler have built this state. They have sponsored every town's festival, little league teams, contributed millions to universities, contributed to the art's, etc. This, of course, on top of the millions of people they have employed, and pensioned forever.

    I don't get it. Michigan is in a depression because our number one industry is suffering, and some Michiganders respond by buying a Toyota, or a Kia, etc. Unbelievable and unacceptable.

    Want to find a way to fix the state's budget shortfall and improve the Big 3? Find a way to tax the fuck out of foreign cars in Michigan.

    Grrr.. Pisses me off.

  14. #14
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    I do not currently own a car.

    At least no money of mine went into this vehicle. If I was in a position where I had to take a job in a factory here owned by a foreign company like Kia, I would proudly park a GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicle in the parking lot with a BUY AMERICAN sticker on it. I would also feel like I needed a shower.

    Would it make me a better father if I praised her on her accomplishment of getting her mother to buy her the car of her dreams, lying the whole time?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahleel View Post

    Also, I do not understand why you are against her buying a Kia. Do you not realize how many more jobs are created BECAUSE Kia is here? New dealerships, salesmen, service techs and supplier jobs just to name a few.

    -Tahleel
    What? You actually believe this shit?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahleel View Post
    But you are for buying a car that was designed in Europe, parts made in Canada, and assembled in Mexico (the first gen Focus)?
    Wrong there Junior, my Ford Focus was built in Wayne MI, with over 87% of the parts made in America.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofdetroit View Post
    I can understand people outside of Michigan buying foreign cars (though I despise it), but I cannot understand buying a foreign car in Michigan, unless you work for one of the few foreign companies in the state.
    Why should I prefer an American or Foreign car? The auto industry (domestic or international) hasn't given me a dime. The reason I do not like American cars are most of them have uninspiring designs, horrible build quality and materials, and are generally unreliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofdetroit View Post
    The American auto industry built Michigan. You live in Michigan, you buy American. Period. Ford, GM, & Chrysler have built this state. They have sponsored every town's festival, little league teams, contributed millions to universities, contributed to the art's, etc. This, of course, on top of the millions of people they have employed, and pensioned forever.
    That was then, this is now. If these automotive companies are so gun-ho about Michigan, why did they expand their plants to other states (down south, West coast) and internationally? I know it might be hard to believe, but there are other companies in Michigan too, that aren't auto-related.

    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofdetroit View Post
    I don't get it. Michigan is in a depression because our number one industry is suffering, and some Michiganders respond by buying a Toyota, or a Kia, etc. Unbelievable and unacceptable.
    Michigan's number one industry is suffering because it is uncompetitive. Michigan is suffering because we were too comfortable with the auto industry staying here, and didn't see what was obviously right in front of us. Why would one by an inferior product from a company that is uncompetitive with other companies? I'm sure the great Depression was started from buying foreign cars, although they weren't introduced to the American market until 40 years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofdetroit View Post
    Want to find a way to fix the state's budget shortfall and improve the Big 3? Find a way to tax the fuck out of foreign cars in Michigan.

    Grrr.. Pisses me off.
    Improve the Big 3 even more? You mean even more than the hundreds of billions of our tax dollars spent by bailing them out? What did they do? They paid off their creditors, and filed for bankruptcy anyways. Thanks for wasting my tax dollars!

    This is ridiculous, and pisses me off.

    -Tahleel

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroitej72 View Post
    Wrong there Junior, my Ford Focus was built in Wayne MI, with over 87% of the parts made in America.
    What model year do you have? It was not until 2008, that production was solely at the Wayne Assembly plant. The 2001-2007 Focus (the first gen, as I stated) was assembled in both a plant in Hermosillo, Sonara, Mexico and the Wayne Assembly plant.

    The Focus has gone from 75 percent domestic-parts content in 2007 to 65 percent in 2008 and now 50 percent [...] In our American-Made Index we require at least 75 percent domestic-parts content to qualify
    http://ask.cars.com/2009/07/is-the-f...-america.html?

    -Tahleel
    Last edited by tahleel; September-26-09 at 05:54 PM.

  19. #19
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    Tahleel,

    We appear to be on the polar opposite sides of an argument. I am anti-foreign products, you anti-american products.

    In your opinion, is there any American industry worth supporting? Or should we all give up, buy everything foreign, sell out & sell off everything there is in this nation?

    ...Also, do you know anybody who has been affected by the auto industry at any point? My grandfather was a foreman at Ford. The other lost half of his hand working at a cannery. When he had trouble finding work due to this, he was hired as a parking lot attendant at Dodge Main. Dad worked for Ford, then TRW over on Van Dyke. See the above list also.
    Last edited by jtf1972; September-26-09 at 06:05 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahleel View Post
    Michigan's number one industry is suffering because it is uncompetitive. Michigan is suffering because we were too comfortable with the auto industry staying here, and didn't see what was obviously right in front of us. Why would one by an inferior product from a company that is uncompetitive with other companies? I'm sure the great Depression was started from buying foreign cars, although they weren't introduced to the American market until 40 years later.

    Improve the Big 3 even more? You mean even more than the hundreds of billions of our tax dollars spent by bailing them out? What did they do? They paid off their creditors, and filed for bankruptcy anyways. Thanks for wasting my tax dollars!

    This is ridiculous, and pisses me off.

    -Tahleel
    What should piss you off is that the Japanese and Korean markets are effectively closed to US manufacturers. Even their Cash for Clunkers program excludes foreign manufacturers despite the US being damned sure our program didn't. You don't seem to recognize such behavior is the source of a lot of backlash against them (aside from their labor practices and other trade advantages our government allows them to enjoy since little effort is made to level the playing field).

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtf1972 View Post
    Tahleel,

    We appear to be on the polar opposite sides of an argument. I am anti-foreign products, you anti-american products.

    In your opinion, is there any American industry worth supporting? Or should we all give up, buy everything foreign, sell out & sell off everything there is in this nation?
    I am not anti-American. Infact, I've owned several American cars over the years, and currently do so now. I am pro-capitalism, and that is as American as baseball, and uhh.. french fries.

    -Tahleel

  22. #22
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    This conversation isn't really about foreign or domestic autos. And Tahleel's strident tone is a tad off putting. It is about a young lady who has manipulated her mother, put the family in financial jeopardy and is using the mother to inflict a guilt trip on JFT1972.

    This was her dream car? Short lived dream as the vehicle didn't hit these shores until spring of 2009. Anyone ever buy the first year of anything? 1.0 = loser anything.

    what you have here is a father made his feeling known and the primary care-giver decided those points were not worth considering. Without too much guessing, I'll bet you this is not the first time.

    JFT, stick by your guns. Don't cave for any reason... or you will regret it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpup View Post
    What should piss you off is that the Japanese and Korean markets are effectively closed to US manufacturers. Even their Cash for Clunkers program excludes foreign manufacturers despite the US being damned sure our program didn't. You don't seem to recognize such behavior is the source of a lot of backlash against them (aside from their labor practices and other trade advantages our government allows them to enjoy since little effort is made to level the playing field).
    Why would someone buy one of these evil Japanese or Korean cars? Maybe because the material and build quality is better, the vehicle is more reliable and fuel efficient, and the styling is more attractive.

    If you do not like these foreign products, maybe you shouldn't buy them. Who made the shirt on your back? The shoes on your feet? The computer you are using? I'm sure all of these are foreign made products. You complain about foreign cars, yet how many times in your life have you bought a NEW car? Compare that to how often you buy everyday goods that were made overseas.

    -Tahleel

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    I didn't (and don't) complain about the cars or other products (except counterfeiting and other blatant intellectual property theft). I complain about the business and trade practices.

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    People should buy the car they want to buy. Yes, it would be nice if it were American-built or owned, but hardly a deal-breaker.

    Some of you folks seriously hate everyone else in the world or something? People have families and need jobs in Mexico too.

    Oh, and as others have pointed out, Chrysler is an Italian company, not an American one. It's HQ is no longer on U.S. soil, and the decisionmakers are thousands of miles away.
    Last edited by crawford; September-26-09 at 06:32 PM.

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