Bye Bye Michigan Central Depot!!

**Gannon** · April-16-09, 08:42 PM

All due respect JoeKrause, but the LAST thing we want to do is trade EVEN that city park on the river for this boondoggle.

Last thing.

That park is INVALUABLE to the city, because it alone will keep Herr Troll from building his second span, and EVERYONE on his team knows it.

Achilles Heel for the whole damn deal.

We should trade that and enough funding to insure Detroit will never run a deficit for the next twenty years or so...enough funding to secure police and fire and schooling for everyone.

OH, and enough to do something with the MCS, too...keeping it and restoring it.

Think I'm asking too much? Did you ever own all the railroads AND utilities in Monopoly?

Lorax · April-16-09, 10:43 PM

Matted Moron and his henchman, Thumper are nothing but bold-faced liars. We really don't need to second guess these super rich thugs- they'll use their uber-riches like a weapon, they all do. In my business I refer to their wives as just another bitch with a checkbook and a Mercedes- nothing of substance to look at here.

What they represent is the worst in human nature. Greed, avarice, stinginess and malevolence. There is nothing good here to report.

Sadly it would take a sophisticated, equally capricious city council and mayor to wrest ownership and control of the MCD from these losers. Brains and sophistication are sorely lacking at city hall. And the only leverage they have, and it's a big one, is that parkland on the river.

I say make the deal, get control of the station + cash for stabilization/marketing of the beast and make sure the city gets an annuity for the lease of the parkland- don't sell it outright-and get the ball rolling on bringing in a developer to rehab the MCD. Quid pro quo. They get a little, we get a little.

**wobbly** · April-17-09, 08:45 AM

Council's resolution for an "emergency demolition" is significant. At least according to a DEQ worker I spoke with:

Emergency demolition is for buildings in immediate danger of collapse which is not the case here. In emergency demolitions the rules for safe removal of asbestos and other toxics don't apply. Instead the whole thing is demolished expanding the amount of contaminated material and classified as toxic when it is removed.

I may not have all the details correct -- does Council post it's resolutions on the City site? -- but in general it sounds like the classification as emergency makes the process of demolition much less healthy and safe.

Eyesores are not emergencies.

**Novine** · April-17-09, 11:54 AM

Since when does the City Council get to override DEQ regs?

**GOAT** · April-17-09, 12:01 PM

Looking at the picture of the Fine Arts Palace in SF [[or what's left of it). Why couldn't the facade of the front of the building [[not the offices) be removed and put over one of the main entrances into the downtown eiterh on Michigan or Woodward? Sure the cost might be high but it would be quite interesting nonetheless.

**kahnman** · April-17-09, 01:25 PM

Can someone with a more highly tuned intuitive sense guide me to online Detroit Council minutes? Foolish me, I thought I should be able to go the City of Detroit's website and click on the "City Council" link and search for MCD info there.

What a joke...

*Rant on* There is no search function, no tab for minutes/ordinances on pdf, just one for pending ordinances - which is blank. But, there are pretty pictures of all the council members - very useful! My personal faves are the "colorful" JoAnn Watson snapshot and the "high school senior portrait" of Monica Conyers.

Oh, wait! I found a page buried on the City clerk's page that I think tells me I have to give the City 25 cents a copy - after I write to them by snail mail or fax or go in person to make the request!?

One measure of the competency of a City is their web presence [[or lack thereof). Obviously, the City of Detroit does not want to provide easily available information to the public. How sad, even the little City I work for provides council agendas, minutes and audio recordings right on the home page. Get a clue, City of Detroit!! *Rant off*

**Bob Green** · April-18-09, 11:11 AM

Does anyone have any pics of MCS in operation in its last years? Just curious?

**Novine** · April-18-09, 11:44 AM

This is a Google hack but it will return you City Council minutes. Go to google and enter this search.

site:www.ci.detroit.mi.us/legislative/CityClerk "president monica conyers"

How it works is that it searches Google and limits it to this location:

www.ci.detroit.mi.us/legislative/CityClerk

which is where on the city web site council minutes are found. By searching on "president monica conyers" you're telling Google to only return documents with that phrase [[for her council position) in the document. As long as you search that location, you can change the search terms and narrow down minutes to specific documents. I didn't see a lot of older minutes so I don't know how far back that goes.

**DetroitHabitater** · April-18-09, 11:50 AM

This video has been posted a couple times from the last few days of operation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbtyUsnrY2I

**kahnman** · April-20-09, 02:48 PM

Thanks for the tip, Novine. Pretty pathetic that you have to use a google hack to get what you want from the city....sad state of affairs!

**Rocko** · April-21-09, 08:32 PM

Few people know that a portion of the property/structure is owned by the city of Detroit. Interesting.

**urbanoutdoors** · April-21-09, 11:50 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...Depot+standing
So I find these developments interesting Stamper never hesitates to blame someone else for their neglect... Anyone know about the MCB acquiring land and for what?

gravitymachine · April-22-09, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by detnews

"The most dilapidated part of the complex and the only entrance is through city-owned property," said Dan Stamper, president of the company that owns the depot and the Ambassador Bridge. "We would expect the city would be protecting the property from trespassing."

ah yes, because there can't possibly be a way to seal up the station where their property meets the city's, no doorway, fenceline, internal structure, etc. why won't the city think about the ambassador bridge company, won't someone please think about the ambassador bridge company!!

**ridgeabilly** · April-22-09, 09:17 AM

I agree with ruxy17, the net gain from $3.6 million spent on demolition and clearing of residential burned out houses would be far greater than this half-witted scheme.

**Rocko** · April-23-09, 12:13 PM

How about this aerial view of MCS?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8258369917015621055

**casscorridor** · April-23-09, 01:11 PM

its so hard to think of big ideas when we feel so far from those ideas being reality.

but what happens when something like renovating the train station does become a reality?

doors open, so much more is possible.

I propose turning the train station into a high-speed rail station, and hub for commuter and regional rail. It will be a shining beacon that the green economy is possible, that it is real. A symbol of a new future.

It will be part of a much larger Green New Deal for Michigan, the Midwest and communities affected by the Auto Industry decline, that will put millions back to work, and reenergize and renew our economy. putting closed up factories back to work building wind turbines, solar pannels, EV's, PHEV's, and tranist rolling stock and locomotives. Detroit can be the center of the transportation industry, not just auto... with the Michigan Central Station as the symbol of this new economy.

All we need to do get involved. Demand that Obama work for a Green New Deal. The bigger the movement grows, the better our chances of succeeding. And when we DO succeed, and we WILL succeeed, we will be in an even better position to do more... we won't stop there, we'll keep going. Untill we hvae a truely just and sustainable world.

**Rocko** · April-24-09, 09:53 PM

I wonder under what pretenses and when the Free Press was allowed inside to take these?

http://www.freep.com/article/2009042...24089/1118/RSS

**wolverine** · April-24-09, 11:41 PM

Those are pretty nice 360's

**professorscott** · April-25-09, 01:00 AM

Novine asked: "Since when does the City Council get to override DEQ regs?"

Prof. Scott answers: since when does the City Council give a flying shit whether it obeys any rules whatever, including the laws of physics?

They look at it, I think, this way. DEQ does not have a military or police force that can fly its spaceships to City Council Planet and enforce anything against the City Council. So since nobody can force the council to obey the rules, and they certainly won't obey the rules for any reasons of ethics or morality [[which are Earth concepts, apparently not applicable on their Planet), they go ahead and do whatever they want.

Fewer and fewer people want to live under such rule, as evidenced by the continued loss of population, but that doesn't appear to affect them either.

**nickstone** · April-25-09, 03:03 AM

hey does anyone remember one of kwame's state of the city addresses from a few years ago where he proudly PROCLAIMED that the train station was FOR SURE going to become the next Police HQ? I remember thinking... so glad I live in the city... how great is this gonna be? Yeah... and I passed by it again tonight on the way home to Washington Square/Trolley Plaza... no Police HQ, no... offices, no anything... just sadness and homeless people... and terrifying surroundings... I have had only the most bizarre encounters with folks around there... ah well... our next mayor will do... well, probably nothing... yikes... weird to live here... oh and pay a lot of taxes to our dear city too..... that too....

**sg9018** · April-26-09, 09:08 AM

The Free Press did a editoral this morning,

One last chance for ghost depot

Set a deadline for redeveloping the Michigan Central Station before forcing its razing

Call it the ghost of southwest Detroit.

More than 20 years after the last train pulled out of the Michigan Central Station, the towering, 18-story ruin haunts Detroit's booming Corktown neighborhood, nearby Mexicantown and a promising, burgeoning downtown.

Once the world's tallest train station, the gap-toothed, airy facade is now a menace -- a magnet for vandals, and because of its sheer size and visibility, a spooky symbol of the city's decay.

The depot got to this sorry state with the help of two key abettors: Ambassador Bridge owner Manuel Moroun, who has owned the structure since 1996 and done practically nothing to maintain or improve its condition; and the City of Detroit, which has allowed Moroun to neglect the depot, largely without penalty.

Neither party has met its obligation to the historic building, or the surrounding neighborhood. But now a perfect storm of renewed public interest, government money and Moroun's professed desire to make use of the property have created the opportunity for movement.

It's time to either make the depot useful or remove it from the city's landscape.

The ghost of southwest Detroit shouldn't be allowed to haunt its neighbors, or this city's image, for another year.
Listed on the National Register of Historic Places, the Michigan Central Station is an architectural gem and a real slice of Detroit's history -- what one resident called "our Ellis Island." Still, in its highly visible decay, the station has become more than an eyesore: Featured in Camilo Jose Vergara's "American Ruins," the depot has morphed into an iconic, international symbol of Detroit's decline.

Think about it: If you come into Detroit from the south, along I-75, or across the Ambassador Bridge from Canada, the depot is one of the first structures you see along the skyline. It's a shabby welcome mat for the city, and a ghastly front door to the southwest Detroit neighborhoods that surround it.

At Bagley and 16th Street, Kenneth Koehler and his wife, Tomasita Alfaro-Koehler, have operated the Honey Bee Market for 13 years. Back in the mid-1990s, one house stood on the block. Now, the neighborhood is full of rebuilt and new homes.

It's the kind of vibrant, integrated community that aspires to define southwest Detroit.

But the depot, just two blocks south, casts a pall over everything. "Everyone's praying that something will happen," Kenneth Koehler said.

It's a common sentiment in southwest Detroit.

"For people and businesses considering southwest Detroit, the first question is what's going on with the train station?" said Timothy Thorland, executive director of Southwest Housing Solutions in Detroit. "There's really no answer."

Legacy of neglect

Former Mayors Dennis Archer and Kwame Kilpatrick entertained various proposals for redeveloping the site, including turning it into a casino or the city's police headquarters. But nothing came of them. Mayor Ken Cockrel Jr. has been even more inept. He deserves credit for forcing an overdue debate on the depot, but has embarked on a fundamentally flawed plan to demolish a registered historic building with federal funds, without even talking to the depot's owner, Manuel Moroun.

Meanwhile, as the depot deteriorated, the city, under three administrations, has resisted aggressive enforcement of building and demolition codes against Moroun. The building almost certainly violates the city's dangerous building ordinance and, as such, could have been subject to a demolition order years ago.

That constitutes incompetence on a level that mystifies. Moroun is a private owner with millions in his pockets that could have been leveraged to maintain, or even redevelop the depot. If the city can't hold him to city codes, what hope would it have with the thousands of troubled structures with questionable ownership or owners who are penniless?

The depot's deterioration and the horrible local economy probably rule out much in the way of redevelopment now. But there is still an opportunity to save part of the historic structure, get rid of the crumbling tower, and turn the 14-acre site, with ample green space, into a catalyst for development in the area. The city and Moroun just have to work together.

The time is right. Mayor Cockrel's proposal to use federal stimulus money to demolish the depot and recoup the costs from Moroun has at least reignited public debate about the structure, and prompted a move by City Council to fast-track demolition proceedings against Moroun.

Both ideas have serious drawbacks, but if Moroun can be drawn into the conversation, a plan that works for everyone seems attainable.

The way forward

Dan Stamper, president of Moroun's Detroit International Bridge Co., told the Free Press that, if the train station needs to come down, Moroun would pay for it. It's absurd to use taxpayer dollars for tearing down a building that its billionaire owner is willing to pay for himself.

The $3.6 million Cockrel wants in stimulus funds wouldn't cover the costs of demolition, anyway. John Adamo Jr., CEO of Adamo Demolition Co. in Detroit, estimates that removing the building, including environmental work, would take at least $5 million. Other experts put the tab at closer to $10 million.

Moreover, Cockrel's plan to recoup the money by suing the owner is a pipe dream. Court is the last place you want to see Moroun, whose lawyers could delay any action for years while running up a fat legal tab for city taxpayers. Even if the city could put a lien on the subsidiary company that owns the depot, Control Terminals Inc. of Warren, the company likely has few, if any, assets besides the station -- worth about $350,000, according to tax records.

Finally, the mayor's plan ignores the property's listing on the National Register of Historic Places. That prohibits the use of federal money to demolish the building without an exemption from the National Park Service. The owner, however, is free to tear it down.

The best use for stimulus money on the site could be for a redevelopment plan centered on the station at the foot of the depot's tower. With its ornate columns and grand spaces, it could easily anchor a retail space, and help spur development along Michigan Avenue.

For merchants and residents in southwest Detroit, it's imperative that something be done. Leaving the depot in ruin any longer hurts the neighborhood and the city.

If the structure cannot contribute to Detroit's rebirth, it should no longer define its decline.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009042...ng+ghost+depot
Also the Free Press has photos of MCS from 1982,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/g...4250808&Ref=PH
More on the Michigan Central Station:

• Jeff Gerritt: Detroit's 'Ellis Island' still impresses
• Interactive: Explore the depot's exterior
• Interactive: In-depth look inside Michigan Central Station
• 360 degrees of the Michigan Central Station in Detroit
• http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=videonetwork&videoID=1103082367"> Video: Free Press editorial board examines the depot
• http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=C4&Dato=20090425&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr =904250807&Ref=PH">Photo gallery: Michigan Central Station train depot
• http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=C4&Dato=20090425&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr =904250808&Ref=PH">Photo gallery: Michigan Central Station in 1982
• http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=C4&Dato=20090425&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr =904250809&Ref=PH">Photo gallery: Postcards of Michigan Central Station

**exmotowner** · April-26-09, 09:41 AM

"If the structure cannot contribute to Detroit's rebirth, it should no longer define its decline."

Thats the best line Ive read in any of the many threads on this subject.

Thats right! Either shit or get off the pot!!! sorry for the analogy, but it seems to fit.

Bearinabox · April-26-09, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by exmotowner

"If the structure cannot contribute to Detroit's rebirth, it should no longer define its decline."

Thats the best line Ive read in any of the many threads on this subject.

Thats right! Either shit or get off the pot!!! sorry for the analogy, but it seems to fit.

Does it fit? Do you think the train station is occupying a "pot" for which someone else is impatiently standing in line?

**Rocko** · April-26-09, 10:16 PM

I have never seen those 1982 photos before, but they reminded me very much of the 1987 Youtube video that has been posted here. Unbelievable, and my heart breaks each time I see something recent like that.

**exmotowner** · April-27-09, 12:55 PM

Sorry Bear. God didnt mean to piss you off here. And Yes I do believe a lot of people [[all of Detroit and detroit ex's and friends) waiting on this to see what is going to be done. All I am saying is it is the poster child for detroits decline but it could be a GREAT poster child for Detroits "Recovery".
Sorry Bear. Guess we cant say anything on this site without someone being a smart ass about it. Yes I do think a lot of people are waiting and yes the city and Moron need to get off the pot and either restore it, stabilize it or tear that damn eyesore down. [[And I am WAY a preservationist) but they need to do someting NOW. So yes Bear IMO they need to Shit or get off the pot. If you dont like my analogy sorry about that. I [[if no body else) am waiting. it doesnt need [[and probably wouldnt withstand) 20 more years of decline.