Archbishop-Vigneron-seeks-patron-saint-for-Detroit

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:13 AM

Now there's 'hatred in [[my) soul'. My, my, religion sure does confer extraordinary powers upon you. The Devil made me do it!

**Detroitej72** · October-01-09, 12:15 AM

You sure seem to have hatred toward the Catholic Church and folks like myself who belong to it, do you not?

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:16 AM

I don't label all folks who have faith in to one lump sum. You said that, not I.

**Detroitej72** · October-01-09, 12:19 AM

You called myself and Dtowncitylover "religious fanatics" and slammed our choice of religion to start the game.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:21 AM

Okay, maybe it's the second largest mansion in Detroit. BTW, I've been in both of the Fisher Mansions at PP, as well as all of the others. I was in the one that archbishop/cardinal whathisname and Sally lived in and the one, owned at the time by a doctor, later by an auto dealer, that burned. Neither of those is the one I'm talking about.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:23 AM

Oh, I'm sorry.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:35 AM

I still can't figure why, if your faith is so strong and god is so important to you, you feel the need to persist in arguing? Aren't you a happy camper? I mean you're going to heaven for Ch[[oops)'s sake. I should be a non-issue to you. What is it about people of faith - protestant, christian, muslim, whatever. Is it the persecuted followers syndrome?

**1KielsonDrive** · October-01-09, 12:36 AM

Good night, my adversaries.

**dtowncitylover** · October-01-09, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

I still can't figure why, if your faith is so strong and god is so important to you, you feel the need to persist in arguing? Aren't you a happy camper?

Exactly. I'm not arguing, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I'm defending my faith against people like you because my faith is strong. Why do you persist on attacking the Catholic Church? Why can't you move on?

Also, stop trying to put me up on a pedestal that I'm "holier than thou". I'm not, I recognize that. I am not a perfect Catholic, I don't plan on going to Heaven. But I defend my faith, you attack it. I wasn't calling you an atheist, or heathen, or ignornant directly. [[And I don't think you are a teabagger.) I was merely speculating as if I had called you those things. I don't plan to.

Goodbye.

P.S. The Church allows the belief in evolution. Do I? I'll tell you that I don't believe in creationism.

**SWMAP** · October-01-09, 09:11 AM

The Archbishop never took a vow of poverty - no does any diocesan priest. He has a salary and a good retirement and his expenses are paid for by the Diocese that's true. But when he moves on, that house will remain the property of the Diocese. He merely lives there. I point this out because many of the "prosperity preachers" who are driving Bentleys and live in big, big houses that they OWN have done this all on the backs of the donations of relatively small Detroit congregations, whereas the Archbishop leads about a million people.

I don't know about Cardinal Maida, but I do know that Cardinal Shocka [[spelling) returned from Rome and bought a house in the north suburbs. Quite a nice house. But he paid for it himself - out of his own savings. He had a paid job in Rome until he was more than 80. I imagine that he has some help, as he is elderly and not well and I am sure that he has an arrangement with the Diocese that pays for that.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-02-09, 12:50 AM

Thanks SWMAP. You help my case. I don't believe in religions of any type. I see high roller ministers frequently. They even have the balls to come to foodbanks and community kitchens in their expensive automobiles. The cost of one car, like some of those driven by ministers, could feed many families for months, maybe years. Even if priests don't take vows of poverty, I think it's reprehensible that supposed holy people, religious leaders, should live in expensive homes and drive expensive cars, even if they've worked for years. It's called 'sacrifice'. That should be why you became a priest, minister, rabbi, or whatever. If an ordained or consecrated person isn't living frugally, sacrificing and setting an example, they might as well be out working and playing in the everyday world.

**Gistok** · October-02-09, 01:51 AM

Taking a page from The Blues Brothers movie.... it's time for some of you boys to visit... The Penguin....

**1KielsonDrive** · October-03-09, 05:14 PM

The Penguin............oh,oh.

**Bobl** · October-03-09, 06:01 PM

I agree with 1K on this, but take a more laid back attitude. Let them have their quaint beliefs, as long as they do no harm. Whatever gets you through the night.
My three aunts who were nuns, and my late father, who was altar boy for Solanus Casey, would strongly disagree. I loved them all.
However, I would, indeed, rather think than pray.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-05-09, 01:49 AM

Thanks Bobl. Yeah, I get carried away ranting and raving once in a while, but most people just ignore me. That doesn't change that I believe as I do. I think people who are firm and secure in their beliefs, are challenged to talk and debate with me or they just let it slide by. For most part, the ones I've found that get really upset are those who are ultra-religious [[only black and white, good and bad), and those who have big time doubts.

**annalouise** · October-05-09, 12:15 PM

Obviously it should be Solanus Casey, even if we have to wait for him to be officially sainted for that to happen.
That'll solve all the bickering going on here. Everyone, regardless of faith can be glad that we have a patron saint that actually is a Detroiter. We can also all be happy that when people come to pray at Casey's tomb and ask him for miracles, the money they donate goes irectly to fund one of Detroit's most innovative institutions.
The work that's done in Casey's name at Earth Works, the Capuchin Soup Kitchens and Capuchin Services consistently give Detroit positive international attention and serves thousands of Detroiters.

**agirlintheD** · October-05-09, 12:43 PM

I agree that the patron saint should be Fr. Solanus Casey. I was at St. Bonaventure for mass yesterday [[always a humbling experience) and while I've always felt a "spiritual" bond towards Fr. Solanus, it was stronger than ever when Archbishop Vigneron announced he would seek a patron saint for Detroit. Fr. Solanus is the "miracle" Detroit needs. At least in my opinion.

**kellyroad** · October-05-09, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Campfire Girl

I, too, think that St. Jude patron of seemingly hopeless cases would be an excellent patron saint for the City of Detroit. Through his intercession, may miracles have been realized. St. Jude Parish in Detroit is a beacon of light for the Eastside and has been for 70 years. The food pantry feeds many needy families in the surrounding area. If there was ever a saint for Detroit in these days, it is St. Jude.

St. Jude represents hope
on so many levels. Yes, St. Jude Parish was and still is a powerful force in the community of Detroit. Saint Jude goes back to the time of Christ and is an excellent suggestion as a patron saint.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-05-09, 03:09 PM

Those are all excellent programs that donations go to. I'm familiar with them and I applaud them. But miracles?????? C'mon now. Show me one. In fact show me one that Father Solanus Casey performed or is responsible for? My father, a devout but flawed, catholic [[show me a catholic, christian or muslim, for that matter, who isn't flawed) prayed for his life to the above mentioned saints and saints to be, as did our entire family. It didn't work. No miracle to be had. I know your response already. It wasn't god's will. Geez. Somehow or other this thing just doesn't work.

**annalouise** · October-05-09, 03:40 PM

I dont' know about any actual miracles but [[and practicing Catholics can correct me if I get any of this wrong) it is, I believe, customary to "pay" for your miracles by donating money to the site where the saint's remains kept.
That money goes to pay for the Capuchin's social service work. YMMV on how many actual, requested miracles are performed, but there's some obvious tangible miracles that happen when hungry people get access to food, children get access to good daycare and education and people struggling with addiction can recover.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-05-09, 05:21 PM

there's some obvious tangible miracles that happen when hungry people get access to food, children get access to good daycare and education and people struggling with addiction can recover.[/quote] Miracles? These are miracles? It sounds more like a political, charitable exercise and sacrifice than a miracle. Does that mean when I go to work at the community kitchen and donate 10 bucks to the kitty for my effort, I'm performing a miracle? Wow! Then it must also follow that people who deny these things to the poor, hungry, uneducated and afflicted, by any means, are necessarily anti-miracles workers and deserving of ???.