GM to plan move from RenCen to Dan Gilbert’s Hudson’s tower

[DetBill]

Happy to help.

saved me again, Thanks!! As mentioned wondering why GM has blacked out the top of the towers for the last month and a half, they said that the GM Square signs were being repaired and they have been fixed and now they’ve turned the switch off on the towers. Horrible timing with the draft.

[Richard]

Companies buying stock back is how it works,they sell stocks in the lean times to stay afloat and buy them back when they are doing better so they have something to sell when the lean times hits again.

People do not seem to put things into perspective when it comes to CEOs ,

The average worker has one job to do,if they do more they expect more pay so why would one expect a CEO who is responsible for a company and all of its employees and the shareholders to make less?

Is it not based on performance?

People get upset because companies operating in a capitalist society operates in a capitalistic manner.

When it comes to EVs ,she said from the start,they were not profitable without government incentives,so they had to agree to a deadline,which they announced to pander in order to make elected officials look good and win elections.

They won the elections then no incentives or smaller incentives that they suas they weee going to do,people have not noticed but the EPA emission standards were rolled back because they know full well that 2030 deadline could never be achieved.

The mistake she made,along with many other companies,was pandering to public bandwagons,and now all of that is coming back to bite them in the rear in optics.

So now you have increased labor costs along with increased everything else,nobody,even the general public could have said 4 years ago that they saw the economic conditions that we see today coming and everybody has had to readjust their financial outlooks.

It was kinda easy to see what happens when you artificially inflate the economy,that’s why it is called stimulus,but sooner or later you have to pay for that ride.

Companies are not different then individuals,you are supposed to put back enough to carry you through the slow times,the socialists say,you made billions in profit pay me more,you can afford it.

Until the next slow down when the profits are not there and it becomes time to trim the fat - labor costs.

The auto industry in Detroit is well documented with ebbs and tides,good times and bad.

But at the end of the day - The sole purpose of a corporation is to make money for its shareholders because without the shareholders there is no company,without the company there is no jobs .

You cannot really blame what happened to the region on the manufactures,they did what they were supposed to do,established businesses and provided jobs.

The 2 million residents at the time were comfortable with being a one horse town,they spent more time demanding more from the job providers than they did with elected officials,how did that work out?

The buying public cares more about lifting Chinese boats than their own fellow Americans,then they get upset because in order to compete companies have to offshore.

GM is a worldwide organization,they can headquarter anywhere in the world at 1/2 the cost.

Look at Kaiser - They used to build cars in Detroit,they have not built autos in decades,but they are still a multi billion dollar corporation.

There is still ongoing concerns under Packard even after they shut down decades ago and the city decided to wipe their memories from the history books in order to erase a bad past.

The Kelvinator factory was demolished,but yet they are still in America building appliances,just not in Detroit.

The point is ,with or without Detroit the companies will still exist as ongoing concerns even if they stop building cars tomorrow.

It’s probably more prudent to find a happy medium and demand more from your elected officials then trying to create a socialist dream,because clearly that has not worked out very well.

Not for nothing but the cycle is still being repeated,you are trying to climb in bed with the Chinese and build battery factories when there are billions in GOV DOD contracts up for grabs.

You already have the factories,the ones you have not demolished,the steel mills,that shut down and the infrastructure in place without spending billions in taxpayer dollars.

So it is history being repeated with lifting everybody’s boats but yours ,sorry,that is not the auto manufacturers fault and you are going down the road doing the exact same thing you did in the past with the technology and putting all of your ducks in one boat and expecting different results.

You are repeating the exact same cycle of remaining a one horse town of relying on the auto aspect and hoping it will save the day,when you drive by the history that tells you it is not the way to go.

The focus is on autos but there was a time when Detroit was not a one horse town,it was a diverse manufacturing region and had the jobs and population to match.

[stasu1213]

Detroit Public Schools 50 plus years ago had done a much better job in prepping it's students for the job market and the global market than they had done presently. There were many trades that students had learned including math, science, business, and law. Students were also learning to fly. Computer classes were installed in the 70s. Why hadn't Detroit tapped into that talent that were in DPS and use them to attract other businesses from across the country or start up local firms that could hire these talents?

[Richard]

^ it’s a slanted opinion to begin with,why would GM want to retain an albatross of a building ? For historical reasons?

The city mows down and tries to wipe out the cities past history and expects GM to stick around based on emotions ?

The mayor demolished the Packard plant based on it was time to put the past behind and move forward,maybe GM is just following the hint.

People not wanting to go back to work at the office created a nightmare for commercial office space owners ,most of them around me are being converted into apartments and hotels,GM is not in that business so really no need to keep the building anyways.

[stasu1213]

The big 3 hadmade Detroit what it is. The car capital of the world that provided a way of living especially for Detroiters. That "One Horse" did keep Detroit afloat for a century until the Japanese invasion happened in the 80s and beyond. Mary Barra shouldn't take all of the blame for a company that was faltering at the time she had taken charge of it. Elected officials and city planners hadn't done their jobs increasing the stables for more horses to reside in. Still they allow for the faltering industry to gobble up neighborhoods and shut off streets such as Chrysler/Daimler had done on the Eastside of Detroit. I purposely reversed the name. God forbids what will happen if Stellantis decide ro shutter that enormous factory. To GM's defense, they did provide their employees funding to go back to school to further their education and skills back in the 1980s. Few employees had taken advantage of it. Many hadn't. The company knew then that the handwriting was on the wall for those seeking 20 plus years employment at the factory.

[Richard]

My father use to tell me,the only way you are going to get ahead in life is to get a job for a company and retire with pension and benefits,until he was 2 years from retirement and the company he worked for sold out and he lost all of that.

It was also at that time he told me it was a good thing I never listened to him.

My mother started out mending clothes for the rich people,she invested it in houses and had 4 by the time she turned 18,she never worked for anybody but became a multi millionaire.

At a time when women just did not do that stuff.

Outside of the service I did 2 years corporate and walked in one day and was told they no longer needed me in a good new bad news,good news was I took them over 1 million in profit for the first time in their 15 year history,the bad news was it cost them my salary of $200k to do it so they had to let ke go because they could hire somebody cheaper.

So that was it,I put an add in the newspaper for an investor found one before the weekend was over and I became their competitor.

The thing is there are so many opportunities out there,even in the skilled trades,you can make more money doing less work than somebody with a college degree without the debt and work for yourself.

Everybody talks about the evil corporations and high paid CEOs,nobody is stopping them from being their own boss but themselves.

[stasu1213]

My father use to tell me,the only way you are going to get ahead in life is to get a job for a company and retire with pension and benefits,until he was 2 years from retirement and the company he worked for sold out and he lost all of that.

It was also at that time he told me it was a good thing I never listened to him.

My mother started out mending clothes for the rich people,she invested it in houses and had 4 by the time she turned 18,she never worked for anybody but became a multi millionaire.

At a time when women just did not do that stuff.

Outside of the service I did 2 years corporate and walked in one day and was told they no longer needed me in a good new bad news,good news was I took them over 1 million in profit for the first time in their 15 year history,the bad news was it cost them my salary of $200k to do it so they had to let ke go because they could hire somebody cheaper.

So that was it,I put an add in the newspaper for an investor found one before the weekend was over and I became their competitor.

The thing is there are so many opportunities out there,even in the skilled trades,you can make more money doing less work than somebody with a college degree without the debt and work for yourself.

Everybody talks about the evil corporations and high paid CEOs,nobody is stopping them from being their own boss but themselves.

Your mother was very business minded and your father worked a 9 to 5. I am more of a 9 to 5 working person and would be lousy running my own business which starting and running one has its advantages.

[Richard]

Your mother was very business minded and your father worked a 9 to 5. I am more of a 9 to 5 working person and would be lousy running my own business which starting and running one has its advantages.

A lot of times one can actually make more working 9-5,less hours,less headaches less risk etc than in being self employed.

That’s why when people talk about greedy CEOs and pay scales,they do not have one job to do,in the case of GM that is 165,000 employees you have to think about in addition to making sure the product is delivered and the company survives into the future.

But like Henry Ford said - I do not need to know how to build a car - I can hire somebody that does know how.

But even in small business you have to run it like a business,I am in the service business,my hours are 9-5 and no weekends but in the early years it was 10 - 12 hour days and even worse with the nightclub at 18 hours a day but that was fun for the most part.

But it depends on what makes you happy,when you are young you chase millions and want it now,when you get older it becomes more about just being comfortable.

[stasu1213]

A lot of times one can actually make more working 9-5,less hours,less headaches less risk etc than in being self employed.

That’s why when people talk about greedy CEOs and pay scales,they do not have one job to do,in the case of GM that is 165,000 employees you have to think about in addition to making sure the product is delivered and the company survives into the future.

But like Henry Ford said - I do not need to know how to build a car - I can hire somebody that does know how.

But even in small business you have to run it like a business,I am in the service business,my hours are 9-5 and no weekends but in the early years it was 10 - 12 hour days and even worse with the nightclub at 18 hours a day but that was fun for the most part.

But it depends on what makes you happy,when you are young you chase millions and want it now,when you get older it becomes more about just being comfortable.

I totally agree. Many small business entreprenuers in Detroit don't know how to run a business. There were plenty of them in Detroit 10 years or so ago before downtown started flourishing. Many of these shops didn't have cash boxes to break a $20 bill or give you change after making $5.00 to $10. purchases. Few had the clock signs in their windows saying that the shops will reopen at a certain time but many times they reopen much later in the day. Many of these shops closed a year or so after the owners started these businesses. I am and never will knock the average factory worker or anyone whom had worked for city, state, and federal doing the hands on blue collar or white collar jobs. I would rather work a consistent job for a number of years and draw a pension

[Gistok]

An article in Crain's today about the 500 Tower of RenCen was sold... I assume to Blue Cross, but I could not get past the Paywall.

[Canadian Visitor]

An article in Crain's today about the 500 Tower of RenCen was sold... I assume to Blue Cross, but I could not get past the Paywall.

No.

It was sold to Kawa Private Investments LLC.

A Florida-based firm.

[Richard]

They are front for foreign investors,the building does kinda look like a vintage washing machine,round,so fitting.

You will never really know who actually owns it,it’s off shore and established in Delaware,corporate names stay private.

Hey,what if it was the Chinese gov that bought it to use as its headquarters as they introduce their $3995 entry level EV in Detroit ?

[JBMcB]

They are front for foreign investors,the building does kinda look like a vintage washing machine,round,so fitting.

You will never really know who actually owns it,it’s off shore and established in Delaware,corporate names stay private.

Whom are you talking about? Kawa? Here's their web site showing their team:
https://www.kawa.com/team

Here are their SEC filings:
https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/firm/summary/157780

Their HQ is just north of Miami.

The other buyer is Friedman, a local company who has been around forever.

[Richard]

Whom are you talking about? Kawa? Here's their web site showing their team:
https://www.kawa.com/team

Here are their SEC filings:
https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/firm/summary/157780

Their HQ is just north of Miami.

The other buyer is Friedman, a local company who has been around forever.

Yes the whole point is to look squeaky.

The 3 principals are connected to over 323 different real estate “names” .

It’s a foreign registered company,all the SEC does is make sure they comply with U.S. law when they do business here.

Miami is like Montreal,they exist in the capacity they do because they serve as a foreign investment tool that runs billions through real estate because parking money in the U.S. is a safe bet,just ask the Chinese officials that got busted in the corruption crack down,billions all squirreled away in untouchable U.S. real estate holdings.

And that is just 10 people from one country.

it’s just an observation,it does not matter one way or another.

[Gistok]

I mentioned this earlier in this thead... but I wouldn't mind it if Blue Cross of Michigan moved entirely into the RenCen [maybe Tower 100 in addition to Tower 500, or take 2 of the big towers], and sell Gilbert their 5 block Bricktown complex.

As good of a corporate citizen that BCBSM is to Detroit, they built that less than satisfying superblock downtown. Now the DTE campus looks like a superblock [but it maintains a street grid] and is on the edge of downtown, and I don't mind it, but this one is right in downtown... and I bet a lot of historic buildings came down for this block. Just look at the magnificent Detroit Cornice & Slate Company building within their more modern complex.

I think that the BCBSM 5 blocks should be divided [street grid put back to some semblance of its' former self] and filled in with residential/retail. I do realize that this might not be feasible due to the BCBSM data center located in the heart of the complex... but that 5 block superblock always sort of annoyed me...

[royce]

I mentioned this earlier in this thead... but I wouldn't mind it if Blue Cross of Michigan moved entirely into the RenCen [maybe Tower 100 in addition to Tower 500, or take 2 of the big towers], and sell Gilbert their 5 block Bricktown complex.

As good of a corporate citizen that BCBSM is to Detroit, they built that less than satisfying superblock downtown. Now the DTE campus looks like a superblock [but it maintains a street grid] and is on the edge of downtown, and I don't mind it, but this one is right in downtown... and I bet a lot of historic buildings came down for this block. Just look at the magnificent Detroit Cornice & Slate Company building within their more modern complex.

I think that the BCBSM 5 blocks should be divided [street grid put back to some semblance of its' former self] and filled in with residential/retail. I do realize that this might not be feasible due to the BCBSM data center located in the heart of the complex... but that 5 block superblock always sort of annoyed me...

Gistok, I doubt BCBSM is going to move from their Lafayette location, but it would be a benefit to that area if they were to move and make way for residential and retail. That data center is an abomination to that portion of Lafayette.

In hindsight, they had enough room to build the data center just south of their tower building, towards Congress Street. Instead, they constructed the data center on a block long surface parking lot on Fort Street.

That part of Fort Street ran into St. Antoine. On several occasions when I would park in that surface parking lot to go to Floods Bar and Grill, I would think to myself, "This whole block would look great if they built some Brownstone-type townhouses." On Lafayette there was a small parking area behind Flood's, but the rest of the block, I believe, was also a surface parking lot. Townhouses along that stretch of Lafayette would also have been nice. Even now when you walk pass the data center on Lafayette, there's all this wasted sidewalk/plaza that no one uses. A missed opportunity for sure.

[stasu1213]

Gistok, I doubt BCBSM is going to move from their Lafayette location, but it would be a benefit to that area if they were to move and make way for residential and retail. That data center is an abomination to that portion of Lafayette.

In hindsight, they had enough room to build the data center just south of their tower building, towards Congress Street. Instead, they constructed the data center on a block long surface parking lot on Fort Street.

That part of Fort Street ran into St. Antoine. On several occasions when I would park in that surface parking lot to go to Floods Bar and Grill, I would think to myself, "This whole block would look great if they built some Brownstone-type townhouses." On Lafayette there was a small parking area behind Flood's, but the rest of the block, I believe, was also a surface parking lot. Townhouses along that stretch of Lafayette would also have been nice. Even now when you walk pass the data center on Lafayette, there's all this wasted sidewalk/plaza that no one uses. A missed opportunity for sure.

Getting rid of the Plaza and reopening the streets is a better idea. That could relieve the congestion of traffic that occur on weekends or after events. You are right. That Plaza is not being fully utilized. It was built during the time when General Motors acquired the RenCen and the shift were moved to that area and away from the Campus Martius area. Now that the pendulum had swung back to the campus Martius area instead of the area of the RenCen the workers at BCBS hang out there more than at their own Plaza. BCBS work force had reduced since the pandemic. Many employees work remotely. The company maybe forced to make a choice to vacate its data center or the Rencen.

[stasu1213]

Certain council members such as Angela Whitfield Calloway are disappointed saying that Gilbert went back on his word on promising new jobs will be at the Hudson Detroit. She claim that Gilbert, by moving GM into his building is just playing musical chairs by shuffling existing jobs from one location to another. She also believes that G.M. Headquarters will be or already had moved out to Warren. What she and other council members are not saying to the public is that G.. that G.M. will be only occupying the top two floors of the building. Not the entire building. There is still enough room for national or global companies to move satellite offices in that building. I would say that it would not be wise to even let G.M to take over the entire building if that is some future planning. G.M. couldn't managed the RenCen in a way to make it more visited and functional