GM to plan move from RenCen to Dan Gilbert’s Hudson’s tower

[RAPLAS]

I have to agree. I don’t think this is wonderful news by any means for downtown, what’s going to happen to the Marriott Tower Hotel ? It’s going to be this tower hotel with empty towers all around it surrounding it, it will not exactly be an destination/ attraction place for anyone wanting to book there . I hope Marriott stays in there, Detroit keeps crying, They need more hotel rooms and if Marriott were to cancel their contract, that would leave a huge deficit in rooms that are needed. Also, what’s going to happen to restaurants in there like Joe Muers, Andiamo, the top of the Marriott, and all the smaller places will obviously close , and what I’m hearing already is they’re not thrilled at all , they were not even warned about this.. we’re going to have these huge towers sitting vacant on the riverfront for a long period. I hope they at least leave the blue lights on at the top of the towers. Otherwise it’s going to look horrible on the skyline. Not thrilled about this at all.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's definitely a different but valid perspective that I couldn't think about. Although I believe the Marriott will stay there [[maybe a reno or a rebranding?), those small tenants will get hit hard and suffer... hopefully they have some plans to help them...

[stinkytofu]

I am nowhere near as excited about this than most of you. What does this mean?

1) I assume this means them moving into the block [[not the tower). That block has less than 1 million square feet of office space. Not exactly a signature building for a major HQ like GM. The RenCen was a powerful statement for GM to have as their signature HQ... the block... not so much.

2) does this mean that they can move more workers out to Warren, and still fill the Hudson's Block. That would be a negative as far as jobs in Detroit.

3) What about the RenCen, the 800 lb. gorilla? GM paid $78 million for it and the spent another $500 million in renovating it. Who is going to own it? What will it become?

4) the new GM HQ... no longer dominating the skyline... but now hidden among the low rise downtown buildings. A lack of prestige regardless of where it is located.

5) This is about as exciting as Comerica moving out of the former Comerica Tower [[now Ally Tower) over to their new Detroit HQ... 411 West Lafayette...

Still think it's clearly good news.

The RenCen is a major issue whether or not GM stayed there. And we have to understand reality - GM [[for both COVID and general downsizing) will never have anywhere remotely near the office demand it once had.

The 1k or so employees that will transition to the block basically brought no value to downtown other than patronizing av few places in the RenCen.

So let's do a hard reset and live in reality. Move those employees to an area where they'll be incredibly beneficial to tons of restaurants and stores. Provide a MAJOR boost to lower Woodward which is already doing well.

Now I have no idea the functionality of the RenCen longterm... whether GM was there or not. It's incredibly empty as is. So let's hope they are able to think of reuses for residential and hotel...all the while tremendously helping downtown businesses.

When you factor in the reality of where the world is today, it's a great move.

[Honky Tonk]

"GM [for both COVID and general downsizing] will never have anywhere remotely near the office demand it once had."

But somehow, [magically?] all the GM employees will start showing up at Gilbert's building for work, and start spending their money in over priced restaurants?

[stinkytofu]

"will never have anywhere remotely near the office demand it once had."

But somehow, [magically?] all the GM employees will start showing up at Gilbert's building for work, and start spending their money in over priced restaurants?

That's not what I said.

GM has right sized with not a ton of people in the office... whether that was at RenCen or the Block. Any thought that GM would magically have tens of thousands of employees in the RenCen on a daily basis is just ignorant. There is a new reality out there that somehow is really hard for some people to understand.

And to your point - please explain who all the downtown lunch restaurants serve [[both higher end and lower key chain places) if businesspeople refuse to patronize those places.

[Lowell]

I feel sorry for the little retailers and restaurateurs at RenCen. They took a beating with Covid and the home-officing of the GM workforce. This news has to be crushing, especially after GM's announcements requiring home-based workers to spend more time in the office had given them a straw to grasp. Hopefully the Gilbert/Bedrock team can figure out something to make RenCen viable.

[Burnsie]

May 1996, GM Vice Chairman Harry Pearce:
"The opportunity to move into this outstanding facility at a reasonable price was one we just couldn't pass up...When I stood on the street just a week ago and looked up at this complex and went through the tunnel over to Windsor and looked at this complex across the Detroit River, I said to myself, 'That looks like the global headquarters of the kind of company GM is becoming.'"

[stasu1213]

If GM was smart they could find a vacant lot somewhere along Woodward between Grand Blvd and Grand Circus Park and make that parking for GM employees and partner with the Qline so that it's employees could ride free in case the QLine start charging

[Atticus]

The Hudson Block is simply a much better quality office facility than the RenCen is, or could be. GM is getting a state of the art facility. That fact itself is good for the company, good for Detroit, good for Michigan. Yes it would have been better if some out-of-state Fortune 500 company was lured to relocate to the block, but that wasn’t realistic. Short of that, this is probably the next best thing.

As for the posts about how renovation of the RenCen side towers to hotel/residential being too cost prohibitive.., I am old enough to have heard very similar things said about the Book Tower, Metropolitan Bldg, David Whitney, etc. But those happened, and on a square foot by square foot comparison, a hypothetical RenCen conversion to hotel/lodging will cost a lot less than restoration of those historic jewels.

[Gistok]

This Detroit New article mentions only that GM is leasing the top 2 floors of the Hudson's block??

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...a2xgIyjZwsECLQ

I guess that Gilbert's Bedrock will be doing the leasing, etc. on the RenCen. That is good... they have the highest stake in making sure the RenCen doesn't lower the value of his other properties by being a huge symbol of downtown despair.

[mwilbert]

The Hudson Block is simply a much better quality office facility than the RenCen is, or could be. GM is getting a state of the art facility. That fact itself is good for the company, good for Detroit, good for Michigan. Yes it would have been better if some out-of-state Fortune 500 company was lured to relocate to the block, but that wasn’t realistic. Short of that, this is probably the next best thing.

As for the posts about how renovation of the RenCen side towers to hotel/residential being too cost prohibitive.., I am old enough to have heard very similar things said about the Book Tower, Metropolitan Bldg, David Whitney, etc. But those happened, and on a square foot by square foot comparison, a hypothetical RenCen conversion to hotel/lodging will cost a lot less than restoration of those historic jewels.

Just to be clear, I don't think it's impossible that it will ever happen. I think it's impossible now with current rents and interest rates, and it will probably take a while.

The Book Tower was basically shut down in 2007, so it was 15+ years before it was re-occupied. The two situations are not very similar, but it wouldn't be surprising if it took that long to get a conversion done.

Look at the Hudson's tower itself. How long has that taken, depending on when you start counting from? 25 years since the implosion, at least 7 years since the initial design. With incredible governmental support/subsidy and historically low interest rates.

I'm sure there's a future for the RenCen; I just don't know what it is or how we get there. Apparently GM and Gilbert will do some kind of investigation into what can be done; I'll certainly be looking forward to finding out what they come up with.

[Canadian Visitor]

While I certainly sympathize w/small retailers in the Ren Centre facing down a tough financial situation..........

I have to come out in favour of tearing it down.

Its incredibly anti-urban, anti-waterfront, it really contributes nothing positive to its surroundings [[other than being occupied [[once) by employers).

Re-extend Brush Street through to Atwater, extend Franklin and Woodbridge through to what should be Randolph and you gain urban, human-scaled blocks.

Make the riverside parking lots a waterfront park; reduce the width of Jefferson from 5 lanes each way to 3, and add cycle tracks.

Now you've got the basis of an area that can be attractive for hotels, for office and for residential.

Its a huge deal; and yes, it would be missed on the skyline but as structured it probably doesn't have a future and it probably shouldn't.

Any remaining office tenants can easily find space, maybe even trigger restoration of some in a nice heritage footprint.

The sad thing here is simply that REN is so big, a 3-tower version limited to one block might justified for retention, its shortcomings notwithstanding. But just like badly executed slum clearance for public housing, or a massive urban expressway, the damage is at such a scale its hard not to scar the landscape again when correcting the mistake.

[gthomas]

While I certainly sympathize w/small retailers in the Ren Centre facing down a tough financial situation..........

I have to come out in favour of tearing it down.

Its incredibly anti-urban, anti-waterfront, it really contributes nothing positive to its surroundings [[other than being occupied [[once) by employers).

Re-extend Brush Street through to Atwater, extend Franklin and Woodbridge through to what should be Randolph and you gain urban, human-scaled blocks.

Make the riverside parking lots a waterfront park; reduce the width of Jefferson from 5 lanes each way to 3, and add cycle tracks.

Now you've got the basis of an area that can be attractive for hotels, for office and for residential.

Its a huge deal; and yes, it would be missed on the skyline but as structured it probably doesn't have a future and it probably shouldn't.

Any remaining office tenants can easily find space, maybe even trigger restoration of some in a nice heritage footprint.

The sad thing here is simply that REN is so big, a 3-tower version limited to one block might justified for retention, its shortcomings notwithstanding. But just like badly executed slum clearance for public housing, or a massive urban expressway, the damage is at such a scale its hard not to scar the landscape again when correcting the mistake.

I agree with some things you're mentioning. This reminds me of the Water Square development on the riverfront. They came up with a great solution to tackling the "isolation" problem with the site, same goes with the RenCen.

The indoor podium needs to be demolished and create a direct street access to the hotel and the other buildings, with it's own entrance from street. Should build roads thru the site. Turn the Winter Garden into an outdoor event, retail, bar, restaurant destination. Similar to the outdoor led ceiling plaza in Las Vegas with the Zipline.

This solves the terrible pedestrian and automobile access, similar to the Joe Louis Site. Do the same for the RenCen

[ABetterDetroit]

Conversion to residential excepting the hotel tower would seem to be the best path forward for RenCen. Would it cost money and take some time? Of course. Many other cities are doing it so it can be done here.

https://time.com/6565216/offices-apa...e-hybrid-work/

[mkd]

looks pathetic compared to having their sign atop a 727-footer, sad day for our city. I almost wonder if they told Duggan they want to move everything to Warren and he just managed to get them to keep the c-suite downtown in this new building.

[Gistok]

looks pathetic compared to having their sign atop a 727-footer, sad day for our city. I almost wonder if they told Duggan they want to move everything to Warren and he just managed to get them to keep the c-suite downtown in this new building.

You could be right!

As for tearing down the RenCen... that would be gawd awful... our most prominent downtown building. Lose our largest building complex... and states tallest tower! No way. The national press would have a field day with that story and Detroit would come out looking very bad. Just think... Detroit demoed the tallest skyscraper EVER!!!

Think about losing 1,400 hotel rooms if the RenCen were demoed!!!

Mercifully towers 500 and 600 are owned by some other company... and I bet they would sue because it diminishes the value of their property.

To build it today would cost probably $2 billion +

[Gistok]

OK... came up with an idea... Gilbert buys it [[or is given it!)... but for bargaining chips...

Tell AAA Michigan... which used to be located in the United Artists Building until the early 1970s... when they moved out to Dearborn... that they can have a tower if they move back.

Tell Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, that they can have a tower and more of the complex... if they give Gilbert their gawd awful looking 5 block campus in Bricktown. It has an ugly tower, and takes up so much space. It would make a nice high density residential area, if they left.

Make 2 of the towers residential... and that way there would be day and evening traffic in the 4 story podium area that dies at night after the offices clear out. Maybe that would keep a huge hotel in place with 73 stories.

Just throwing out ideas here....

[Canadian Visitor]

You could be right!

As for tearing down the RenCen... that would be gawd awful... our most prominent downtown building. Lose our largest building complex... and states tallest tower! No way. The national press would have a field day with that story and Detroit would come out looking very bad. Just think... Detroit demoed the tallest skyscraper EVER!!!

Tall buildings get demolished with surprising regularity, in very successful places too.

Singapore just demolished the 52 storey AXA tower last year, it was only built in 1986!

NYC saw 270 Park Avenue demo'd in 2021; it was also 52 storeys.

Think about losing 1,400 hotel rooms if the RenCen were demoed!!!

As to Hotels, Chicago demolished the 45 storey Morrison Hotel back in 1965; While Toronto's Chelsea Hotel, the City's largest by room count at 1,590 is set for redevelopment in the next few years, with zoning approved a series of 80 storey+ towers.

[canuck]

OK... came up with an idea... Gilbert buys it [[or is given it!)... but for bargaining chips...

Tell AAA Michigan... which used to be located in the United Artists Building until the early 1970s... when they moved out to Dearborn... that they can have a tower if they move back.

Tell Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, that they can have a tower and more of the complex... if they give Gilbert their gawd awful looking 5 block campus in Bricktown. It has an ugly tower, and takes up so much space. It would make a nice high density residential area, if they left.

Make 2 of the towers residential... and that way there would be day and evening traffic in the 4 story podium area that dies at night after the offices clear out. Maybe that would keep a huge hotel in place with 73 stories.

Just throwing out ideas here....

I think you are onto something about Gilbert’s ownership of the RENCEN. If anyone can operate their magic onto a piece of property, it would be Dan the man. The switcheroo from suburban office towers is also plausible in his able hands.

[softailrider]

I feel sorry for the little retailers and restaurateurs at RenCen. They took a beating with Covid and the home-officing of the GM workforce. This news has to be crushing, especially after GM's announcements requiring home-based workers to spend more time in the office had given them a straw to grasp. Hopefully the Gilbert/Bedrock team can figure out something to make RenCen viable.

Was it ever really viable? I dreaded the thought of having to go there, when Michigan Basic was there I used to visit once a month or so. I never remember it being bustling place - I remember a lot of curved corners and concrete planters. It was confusing and unfriendly. I always tried to avoid it if I could.

[Atticus]

I think you are onto something about Gilbert’s ownership of the RENCEN. If anyone can operate their magic onto a piece of property, it would be Dan the man. The switcheroo from suburban office towers is also plausible in his able hands.

I agree Gilbert/Bedrock are the best people for redeveloping the RenCen, but we need to be cognizant that luring suburban office workers to backfill empty offices is not the best path forward. Put bluntly, keeping the RenCen central tower as a hotel, and eventually converting the four surrounding towers to residential is the best use of the facility… with the caveat that maybe one of the four side towers could also serve as another hotel.

The world has changed. This idea of thousands of office workers making daily commutes to/from the RenCen is antiquated. The best outcome for the RenCen and Detroit is a residential conversion of the four towers. Yes it will be expensive and likely require government subsidies which will slow the process, but getting the subsidies needed to make it happen will be much easier now with GM vacating. This event brings public attention and highlights the need to undertake that costly repurposing. Maybe do one tower at a time to soften the impact to existing businesses… but the end result would be a much better use of resources than we have today.

Finally, let’s stop pretending that GM departing represents a huge loss to the RenCen. In 2024 there really aren’t that many GM office workers left there to begin with, and of those that still report there, many are only around for Tues/Wed/Thurs anyway. Replacing semi-absent office workers with residents who are there daily and buy more goods locally is a benefit. If done right, there is potential the RenCen ends up a much better place and economic generator than today. To me, this announcement makes the process for achieving that vision more attainable.

[stinkytofu]

I agree Gilbert/Bedrock are the best people for redeveloping the RenCen, but we need to be cognizant that luring suburban office workers to backfill empty offices is not the best path forward. Put bluntly, keeping the RenCen central tower as a hotel, and eventually converting the four surrounding towers to residential is the best use of the facility… with the caveat that maybe one of the four side towers could also serve as another hotel.

The world has changed. This idea of thousands of office workers making daily commutes to/from the RenCen is antiquated. The best outcome for the RenCen and Detroit is a residential conversion of the four towers. Yes it will be expensive and likely require government subsidies which will slow the process, but getting the subsidies needed to make it happen will be much easier now with GM vacating. This event brings public attention and highlights the need to undertake that costly repurposing. Maybe do one tower at a time to soften the impact to existing businesses… but the end result would be a much better use of resources than we have today.

Finally, let’s stop pretending that GM departing represents a huge loss to the RenCen. In 2024 there really aren’t that many GM office workers left there to begin with, and of those that still report there, many are only around for Tues/Wed/Thurs anyway. Replacing semi-absent office workers with residents who are there daily and buy more goods locally is a benefit. If done right, there is potential the RenCen ends up a much better place and economic generator than today. To me, this announcement makes the process for achieving that vision more attainable.

Absolutely and great post. Both the logical short term and long term plan.

[southen]

It will never be torn down. The cost to do that alone could be as much as conversion after subsidies.

If Gilbert gets his hands on it look to see another transformational proposal that will get a serious tax capture. If the surrounding lots are included in any sale or development agreement you might actually see a dense community develop in that area which might make the winter garden and other retail actually viable for the complex.

I was sort of bummed as this didn't/doesn't seem good on its face but there really is more potential if GM cedes control to Bedrock. I hope that the time between now and the move is enough to generate a solid plan for the complex so it isn't just sitting in limbo.

[Satiricalivory]

Why are people constantly talking about tearing the Ren Cen down? You might as well sit here and speculate on when pigs fly or the sky will fall. Not happening lol.

[DetBill]

I certainly hope they wouldn't tear it down,, love it or hate it, it is most certainly the major symbol of our city skyline , cities do not tear down their tallest symbol/ structure. The loss of the hotel would be major, I just hope they do not let it sit empty for 5 years, unless they intentionally want to force / destroy it. Im still trying to figure how GM is saving materially by maintaining the Ren Cen , and paying a lease to Bedrock,,who is going to maintain this structure during a “ transition”,, a major expense, unless their intent is to make it collapse,, I hope not., Hope Bedrock/ GM knows better, would be a major blow to Detroit and their mission of Downtown viability.

[Gistok]

^Agree

Also, the 500 & 600 towers have a different owner than GM.

Also, I think that if Gilbert does get ownership, he should give Blue Cross one of the towers for their HQ... next to RenCen towers 500 & 600 where they also have offices.... and trade it for their rather ugly 5 block "campus. It would be nice to put the street grid back into that part of downtown. They can same the BCBS tower and maybe another building... convert to residential, but get rid of those enormous parking decks, and put residential/retail in there.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/B...!1e3?entry=ttu