China’s Electric Vehicles Are Going to Hit Detroit Like a Wrecking Ball

[ABetterDetroit]

^ Interesting points. Beyond republicans holding back EV tech our own weak/ inconsistent power grid is a factor. Toyota didn't go full-on EV for a reason.

Not sure what you mean by “full-on” exactly but Toyota does have a plug in electric with more planned in the pipeline. Slower start than others for sure, but thinking that Toyota will not be a player in the market of EVs on a global scale I would highly doubt. Toyota is just not the type of company that surrenders a market segment to the competition.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/5/2...port-crossover

[Rocket]

Not sure what you mean by “full-on” exactly but Toyota does have a plug in electric with more planned in the pipeline. Slower start than others for sure, but thinking that Toyota will not be a player in the market of EVs on a global scale I would highly doubt. Toyota is just not the type of company that surrenders a market segment to the competition.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/5/2...port-crossover

But it's a dying market segment. We need another 20 years of battery development, and then a way to generate and deliver clean electricity that's variable. No one has even begun to figure out that second one.

For the foreseeable future, Remote Combustion Vehicles [EV's] are a bad choice.

They have a higher carbon footprint, are more expensive, are hard to live with [unless it's a second car], and they depreciate like they're going out of style. Porsche Taycans for example are depreciating as much as $100k in 4 years. If gas were $35 a gallon, it would still be cheaper to have bought the Panamera.

Toyota did the math and decided EV's were a big looser. They replaced their CEO, and the new guy did the math again, and came to the same conclusion. And in fact the greenest car available is their Prius prime. Greener than any EV.

https://jalopnik.com/toyota-focusing-on-hybrids-not-electric-vehicles-1850440908

[Zacha341]

Yep. Ford jumped in deeply and lost a great deal of money in that segment.

Toyota is just not the type of company that surrenders a market segment to the competition...

^ Interesting points. Beyond republicans holding back EV tech our own weak/ inconsistent power grid is a factor. Toyota didn't go full-on EV for a reason.

[Zacha341]

Right on!

...Toyota did the math and decided EV's were a big looser. They replaced their CEO, and the new guy did the math again, and came to the same conclusion. And in fact the greenest car available is their Prius prime. Greener than any EV.

[Honky Tonk]

Trouble at Zero plant.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...fc6e8a30&ei=22

[Lowell]

An interesting take from WIRED for creating a de facto protectionist embargo of cheap Chinese EV's and ICE's.

The US government has launched an investigation into the national security risks posed by foreign-made vehicles with internet connectivity—especially those made in China. At a briefing on Wednesday, Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo even raised the specter of Beijing remotely triggering mayhem on US highways.

“Imagine if there were thousands or hundreds of thousands of Chinese connected vehicles on American roads that could be immediately and simultaneously disabled by somebody in Beijing,” Raimondo said.

The new US government fears about Chinese autos come as automakers such as BYD and Geely have become major global players in car manufacturing—and particularly electric vehicles. They also build on evidence that as cars have become increasingly computerized, and connected to the internet, vehicles have become vulnerable to new security threats. Hackers have shown it is possible to disable internet-connected vehicles from afar. Automated driving systems and internet connectivity have added cameras and other sensors to vehicles, and can also make them mobile repositories of personal information.

The US government has launched an investigation into the national security risks posed by foreign-made vehicles with internet connectivity—especially those made in China. At a briefing on Wednesday, Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo even raised the specter of Beijing remotely triggering mayhem on US highways.

“Imagine if there were thousands or hundreds of thousands of Chinese connected vehicles on American roads that could be immediately and simultaneously disabled by somebody in Beijing,” Raimondo said.

The new US government fears about Chinese autos come as automakers such as BYD and Geely have become major global players in car manufacturing—and particularly electric vehicles. They also build on evidence that as cars have become increasingly computerized, and connected to the internet, vehicles have become vulnerable to new security threats. Hackers have shown it is possible to disable internet-connected vehicles from afar. Automated driving systems and internet connectivity have added cameras and other sensors to vehicles, and can also make them mobile repositories of personal information.

[Zozo]

An interesting take from WIRED for creating a de facto protectionist embargo of cheap Chinese EV's and ICE's.

This investigation will come to a quiet close and Chinese vehicles will be deemed safe for American roads once the Biden family gets a cut of these Chinese imports. As soon as the money starts flowing to the "big guy" and his cronies, the Democrat party will once again turn its back to the Michigan autoworker.

[Henry Whalley]

... the Democrat party will once again turn its back to the Michigan autoworker.

Bozo, is that you?

P.S. Did you play hooky from clown school the day they taught Build Back Better? It's like MAGA -- only for real not make believe.

[K-slice]

Back on topic...

EV or ICE, Americas biggest problem is it's love of oversized vehicles!!! Ignoring the fact that the behemoths the Big 3 have told us we all need to be "safe" on the road kill pedestrians, cyclists, and anyone else not piloting an even larger vehicle, it will NEVER be efficient to use 5,000 pounds of steel to take a single person to their office job and back again.

Closing the light truck loophole is the best thing anyone can do for the future of the American auto industry and our planet. Force them to get back into producing small, efficient, cars that are completive globally and [[whether EV or ICE) are a lot less wasteful than the tanks they build now.

The article is absolutely right that globally, the big 3 aren't completive, but that's not because they're being on EV tech. It's because most other countries don't allow the kind of vehicles they push on us here.

https://www.distilled.earth/p/the-lo...ars-in-america

[softailrider]

If you have a garage, if you have an alternate vehicle, if you’re using your EV as an around town grocery getter and drive to work car then it’s fine, I guess. I’m sure as hell not buying one and waiting in line for a charger at the Meijers parking lot. Or, planning my trip to Traverse City or anywhere with one of those. Unless the situation drastically changes, I’ll never buy one.

[Henry Whalley]

...I’ll never buy one.

Ditto

[Richard]

Back on topic...

EV or ICE, Americas biggest problem is it's love of oversized vehicles!!! Ignoring the fact that the behemoths the Big 3 have told us we all need to be "safe" on the road kill pedestrians, cyclists, and anyone else not piloting an even larger vehicle, it will NEVER be efficient to use 5,000 pounds of steel to take a single person to their office job and back again.

Closing the light truck loophole is the best thing anyone can do for the future of the American auto industry and our planet. Force them to get back into producing small, efficient, cars that are completive globally and [[whether EV or ICE) are a lot less wasteful than the tanks they build now.

The article is absolutely right that globally, the big 3 aren't completive, but that's not because they're being on EV tech. It's because most other countries don't allow the kind of vehicles they push on us here.

https://www.distilled.earth/p/the-lo...ars-in-america

a lot of it is safety standards that we have where as other countries do not,I have a friend in the UK,he has a Toyota cargo van that gets over 60 miles to the gallon.

When a European or Foreign vehicle gets to a certain age they lift the import restrictions and requirements,so buying those imports are becoming more popular.

I saw a Honda version the other day,it was a van like a dodge caravan style,at the red light parked next to a Sprinter,you could put 2 of those Hondas inside of that Sprinter,they have like 10” tires,you have to figure they are going to be 60 - 70 mpgs.

In the 80s VW had a pickup that was 50 mpgs ,I had a 89 Honda CRX HF that was hitting almost 60 mpg on the highway,horrible on long trips if you waited to use the restroom when you stopped for gas.

Its possible for us to have efficient ICE vehicles,but compared to the rest of the world for the most part our gas is cheap so we drive what we want.

I think what it will boil down to with EVs is because the technology becomes obsolete so fast,like a cell phone,people will tend to buy the cheapest one they can find and just throw it away when it breaks,just like everything else,and nobody can build cheap crap cheaper then China.

We are a disposable society,the vehicles we drive are about the last thing in the list that is not for the most part.

Going Green is expensive and most countries that jumped on the band wagon are experiencing how expensive it really is and are scaling back on their dreams,not only the expense but in that whole global green pact,the countries that can afford it are expected to come up with the cash for the countries that cannot.

I think it will be decades before it is all phased in outside of the commercial aspect where companies will get heavy subsidies and tax write offs,but every time the world goes into an economic downturn,it will kick it all that much further up the road.

[Henry Whalley]

Going Green

tldr

[Zacha341]

I'd consider a Hybrid over pure EV at this point. Toyota has a few models.

If you have a garage, if you have an alternate vehicle, if you’re using your EV as an around town grocery getter and drive to work car then it’s fine, I guess. I’m sure as hell not buying one and waiting in line for a charger at the Meijers parking lot...

[Richard]

tldr

Yea in the amount of time it took you to read it,you could of made 25 other one liner posts based on disrespecting the deceased and their decedents

and other posters because they did not follow your warped path.

What do you see when you look in the mirror?

[Richard]

I'd consider a Hybrid over pure EV at this point. Toyota has a few models.

That’s the path that makes the most logical sense but you cannot justify to the public spending trillions of dollars based on they are going to die,if they drive a hybrid.

With all of the technology available to us they went straight to EVs like it was some kind of groundbreaking new contraption.

[Henry Whalley]

...will once again turn its back to the Michigan autoworker.

President Biden warns flood of Chinese cars poses risks to U.S. national security—’I’m not going to let that happen on my watch’ [[yahoo.com)

[Richard]

How did that work out in the solar industry,assembled in America,one of the most notable solar panel companies in the U.S. and receives the most state incentives,is based in Canada.

They tried the tariff game in order to save Harley Davidson back in the day it still went bankrupt,they tried the rice tariff game with Hati and bankrupted/destroyed Hati.

More recently we put steel tariffs on Canada in order to stop them from dumping cheap Chinese steel on our market,after we increased tariffs on China so they would not dump cheap steel on our market.

It’s a day late and dollar short with the Chinese,States have already jumped into bed with them along the entire supply chain.

China can easily put a robotic assembly factory here and even if they crate all the parts in and assembled them here,they can still undercut any U.S. based manufacturer,they have no legacy costs and can do what they did with solar,take the losses as they undercut the competition in order to wipe them out then jack the costs back up.

As a society we are more dependent on China then they are on us,unless Americans actually get a wild hair and somehow decide to support their fellow Americans over the Chinese,talking tough with tariffs is just that.

[Henry Whalley]

...talking tough with tariffs is just that.

FYI The Battle of Seattle was lost nearly 25 years ago with the help of traitorous collusion by nearly all domestic news media and Satan's forces from the Washington-Wall Street Consensus.

At the time instead of reporting police riots, the NYT falsely stated that protesters threw Molotov cocktails at police. Two days later, it confessed that protesters were mostly peaceful and orderly and that zero persons were accused of throwing objects at delegates or the police. However, the original lie persisted in later accounts in the mainstream media."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests

P.S. The AFL and industrial unions supported pulling out of the WTO.

P.P.S. Richard, were you there in Seattle risking life and limb for the American way of life? I'll bet that Sean Fain was there.

[Richard]

^ tdlr

[Henry Whalley]

^ tdlr

It's TLDR not tdlr.

[Jimaz]

According to the Urban Dictionary, "tdlr" stands for Too Damn Lazy to Reply.

[Rocket]

Apparently about 8 EV's exploded PER DAY in China last year. 3,000 last year.

90% of their EV makers have gone bankrupt,

and few if any could pass our safety standards. Most Chinese brands fold up pretty badly in a crash.

EV insurance is also far outpacing ICE car premiums, which are also going up. My wife's ice sedan went up 50% last year. In England, most EV owners are seeing their premiums double or triple. Repair costs and fire risks being a couple of the reasons why.

[Henry Whalley]

According to the Urban Dictionary, "tdlr" stands for Too Damn Lazy to Reply.

LOL

[Richard]

According to the Urban Dictionary, "tdlr" stands for Too Damn Lazy to Reply.

according to the Urban Dictionary,as you walked right into that one,I was to lazy to reply,hence the TDLR,it was one of those lazy moments where I thought,do I really need to use the energy to lower myself that low and reply - so I thought meh,it’s Sunday and a lazy day.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TLDR

it says the person using the TLDR has an IQ of 64,
Where their urge to type something exceeds their ability to read something or if they generally lack semanticabilty to either comprehend or respond to a post do to an underdeveloped brain.