Jennifer Crumley was found guilty of four counts of manslaughter.

[canuck]

Just wondering what the sentence will be when handed down in April.

Then James, the father will be tried. Sad that it had to come to this, but I believe like a jury of her peers did, that she did not act to protect her son, nor his fellow students in this matter.

[jcole]

No more than 15 yrs apparently. I actually thought it would be shorter because it's involuntary

Just wondering what the sentence will be when handed down in April.

Then James, the father will be tried. Sad that it had to come to this, but I believe like a jury of her peers did, that she did not act to protect her son, nor his fellow students in this matter.

[canuck]

No more than 15 yrs apparently. I actually thought it would be shorter because it's involuntary

Yes, I’m not positive but it seems like a possibility that she receives consecutive sentences. I think it’s unlikely but possible. The judge may decide that 15 years concurrent sentences is enough. It certainly is a milestone case; a First of its kind apparently.

[401don]

It may set a precedent but unfortunately it won't be a deterrent.

[Danny]

15 years prison for being a irresponsible parent who brought a kid a gun to play with.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

15 years prison for being a irresponsible parent who brought a kid a gun to play with.

They bought a gun for a DEEPLY DISTURBED kid.

[canuck]

It may set a precedent but unfortunately it won't be a deterrent.

It may prompt parents to behave more responsibly, generally. I think a lot folks are so intent on pushing their gun ownership rights that nothing fazes them, though, and this outcome might push a lot of them to radicalize in the opposite way.

[Richard]

I am not saying anything - because y’all know exactly where this thread is going.

[missn]

I am not saying anything - because y’all know exactly where this thread is going.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Richard]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

That’s okay,I understand sometimes people just want to hear what they want to hear and nothing else matters,just remember things have a habit of boomeranging back and there comes a point where nobody is immune.

[Jimaz]

Discussing guilty verdict for Jennifer Crumbley in manslaughter trial

Christy McDonald, Cassidy Johncox, and Derick Hutchinson discuss the guilty verdict for Jennifer Crumbley in her involuntary manslaughter trial.

[jcole]

Some people are saying the so called dad will probably get off. I tend to agree because society expects the mother to be the one who notices the issues with their child and is expected to do all the do diligence.

[Zacha341]

^ Yes, but fathers should have 'some' intentional leadership in the home especially regarding teen boys as they age into their teen years. This especially so regarding role modeling into adulthood.

We see the lack of active fathers in the black community and the results. Yet few want to talk about for fear of being called a racist.

Yet ask most teachers and counselors in the K12 levels -- they will detail the outcomes without question!

[canuck]

^ Yes, but fathers should have 'some' intentional leadership in the home especially regarding teen boys as they age into their teen years. This especially so regarding role modeling into adulthood.

We see the lack of active fathers in the black community and the results. Yet few want to talk about for fear of being called a racist.

Yet ask most teachers and counselors in the K12 levels -- they will detail the outcomes without question!

Yep, fathers should probably do more past the training wheels phase.

James Crumbley might have been less of a target of police and prosecutors if he had put a less enabling code than 0-0-0-0 on the gun case.

The wire lock in the ziploc didn’t do much to save his, the missus and the boy’s asses either.

[Zacha341]

Yes. These factors do seem to emerge.

Yep, fathers should probably do more past the training wheels phase.

James Crumbley might have been less of a target of police and prosecutors if he had put a less enabling code than 0-0-0-0 on the gun case.

The wire lock in the ziploc didn’t do much to save his, the missus and the boy’s asses either.

[jcole]

That wasn't meant to be an argument; I said "some people". I don't happen to agree with the premise that women have the lone responibilty for their children.

^ Yes, but fathers should have 'some' intentional leadership in the home especially regarding teen boys as they age into their teen years. This especially so regarding role modeling into adulthood.

We see the lack of active fathers in the black community and the results. Yet few want to talk about for fear of being called a racist.

Yet ask most teachers and counselors in the K12 levels -- they will detail the outcomes without question!

[Zacha341]

I did not offer my comment as an argument. I'm not. My comment was posted as an addition to the subject.

That wasn't meant to be an argument; I said "some people". I don't happen to agree with the premise that women have the lone responibilty for their children.

[Jimaz]

This story is being carried on the BBC so they're hearing about it overseas. It would be interesting to hear what their audience in the UK thinks about it.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

This story is being carried on the BBC so they're hearing about it overseas. It would be interesting to hear what their audience in the UK thinks about it.

It’s probably safe to assume that they’re scratching their heads and saying that they don’t understand the American gun fetish and our being so comfortable with mass shootings.

[Jimaz]

It’s probably safe to assume that they’re scratching their heads and saying that they don’t understand the American gun fetish and our being so comfortable with mass shootings.

Yes. That seems to fit the accurate stereotype they have of us.

But I was wondering whether they might think {incorrectly} that this particular case is representative of the norm here.

True, we yanks are weird about guns but this case was an outlier even for us. Brits might not see that nuance. But I might be wrong.

[Jimaz]

...But I was wondering whether they might think {incorrectly} that this particular case is representative of the norm here....

Oops. Maybe not quite so incorrectly. I had forgotten about this incident:

Nine-year-old girl accidentally kills gun instructor

I don't think it's too oppressive to simply keep firearms separate from children. Maybe except on a farm for vermin control? Eh, even that seems unnecessary.

[401don]

It’s probably safe to assume that they’re scratching their heads and saying that they don’t understand the American gun fetish and our being so comfortable with mass shootings.

You don't have to look across the big pond for that point of view just look across the river.

[Zacha341]

Right, but they have their own governance [and problems] increasingly mandating what their citizens can do, affirm and think.

Canada aside, and back to this conviction subject, I DO wonder how it works that Crumbly the son is tried/ sentenced as an adult, yet parents held accountable? Yes, I do think THEY SHOULD BE in this specific case.

Yet what precedent does this set if the child is tried as an adult as well?

You don't have to look across the big pond for that point of view just look across the river.

[jcole]

Think of it like a conspiracy. His parents were "in" on it so to speak, by their neglect, laxity, etc, but the son was the trigger man who planned it. They're all guilty to different degrees.

Right, but they have their own governance [and problems] increasingly mandating what their citizens can do, affirm and think.

Canada aside, and back to this conviction subject, I DO wonder how it works that Crumbly the son is tried/ sentenced as an adult, yet parents held accountable? Yes, I do think THEY SHOULD BE in this specific case.

Yet what precedent does this set if the child is tried as an adult as well?

[Richard]

Right, but they have their own governance [and problems] increasingly mandating what their citizens can do, affirm and think.

Canada aside, and back to this conviction subject, I DO wonder how it works that Crumbly the son is tried/ sentenced as an adult, yet parents held accountable? Yes, I do think THEY SHOULD BE in this specific case.

Yet what precedent does this set if the child is tried as an adult as well?

The reason that juvenile courts were originally created in the nineteenth century was because society recognized that juveniles did not have the cognitive development that adults had, would benefit more from rehabilitative services to prevent recidivism, and needed more protections. Sociological and political shifting of attitudes caused legislators to believe they needed to be “tough on crime,” and transfers of juveniles to adult court became more frequent. Results of those policies demonstrate that they have failed as recidivism rates for juveniles increased when prosecuted in adult court versus juvenile court.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/l...inal%20system.

Michigan sets it at age 16, but going back to the start of it all the Justification for charging him as an adult was because they wanted to go after the death penalty.

Remember they also changed jurisdiction to allow the state to take over the case so they could go after the death penalty.

But while I agree there should be accountability,there has been no accountability levels when it comes to parent over children set in law,so it becomes a make it up as it goes along.

You know exactly what comes next,it’s a seesaw of relaxing on crime then tough on crime,but with no happy medium.

They have a new name now as they have replaced stop n frisk,STRESS etc with

Pretextual traffic stops are stops initiated by law enforcement for a minor traffic violation, with the actual purpose of investigating or searching for evidence of another, unrelated crime.

But they are also now doing it with people just walking down the street.

My whole thing in all of this is this was all done without defined boundaries set by law,which gives the courts the ability to set the boundaries as they go along,so on pretext you have broken a law that does not exist.

You already know exactly where this leads to and who gets targeted,another couple of years or less,we are back to cities burning again.

Its going to be interesting when they try the father,notice how in vengeance they went after the mother ,so did they do that because the mother is supposed to be the nurturing one and therefore holds more responsibility in raising a child and by default more accountability?

They did not really try the parents as a family unit while on trial for not being a family unit,they pretty much laid it out as it was the mothers fault.

Lots of families have that ONE family member that has all sorts of problems and issues,it must suck having an only child,as a parent you only have a 50/50 chance that they could go either way.

Maybe thats really why they used to have like 6 kids,it put the odds in the parents favor,if one screws up,you have another 5 that you say you were an okay parent.

So now with this “unprecedented “ case you have to ask the question

In a marriage who holds the greater accountability level ? The mother or the father,this case will tell you that or set the bar for future cases.

Then you also have to determine who is the dominant parent,if the father rules the house or the mother.

If parents were considered equal partners when it comes to raising children,this case would have never been tried with each parent separately.