Why Tesla autoworkers need the UAW

**Henry Whalley** · January-28-24, 08:02 PM

Elon Musk Warns Tesla Workers of Grueling Production Ramp-up for Its Mass-Market EV [[businessinsider.com)

Corvee labor and no share of profits

**Jimaz** · January-28-24, 08:42 PM

Corvée labor "part of a series on slavery."

**Richard** · January-29-24, 02:07 AM

Tesla does not need the UAW because it will be majority robotic assembly,unless you want to unionize the robots.

Sheena Patterson is a staff manufacturing engineer at Tesla.
She's working to build the machine that builds the machine: Tesla's highly automated assembly line for the Model 3.

It's a glimpse into Musk's plans for factories of the future: almost fully automated, with robots that can build cars so fast that air resistance becomes a problem.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...is-good-2018-2

though he admitted that he is often optimistic with timing, and could not yet predict how many of the vehicles Tesla would initially produce.

No need to get union slap happy when even Musk does not even know if it is going to happen.

They are getting paid to do a job,if they want to embrace socialism and expect a share of the profits,they can buy stock in the company,that way they also absorb the losses should they occur,or help by kicking in on the billions it’s going to take to set up production in the first place.

I want you to take all of the risks while Useing your money and when you are done I expect 1/2 of your income while taking no risk.

Yea sure.

Who are you hiring,wannabe mob bosses?

**canuck** · January-29-24, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Tesla does not need the UAW because it will be majority robotic assembly,unless you want to unionize the robots.

Sheena Patterson is a staff manufacturing engineer at Tesla.
She's working to build the machine that builds the machine: Tesla's highly automated assembly line for the Model 3.

It's a glimpse into Musk's plans for factories of the future: almost fully automated, with robots that can build cars so fast that air resistance becomes a problem.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...is-good-2018-2

though he admitted that he is often optimistic with timing, and could not yet predict how many of the vehicles Tesla would initially produce.

No need to get union slap happy when even Musk does not even know if it is going to happen.

They are getting paid to do a job,if they want to embrace socialism and expect a share of the profits,they can buy stock in the company,that way they also absorb the losses should they occur,or help by kicking in on the billions it’s going to take to set up production in the first place.

I want you to take all of the risks while Useing your money and when you are done I expect 1/2 of your income while taking no risk.

Yea sure.

Who are you hiring,wannabe mob bosses?

Do like the Chinese do. Multiply the oligarchs to number in the couple of thousand, push for the right to work state agenda. Substitute the apparatchiks and Communist Party Nomenklatura with corporate CEO-CFOs.
Who needs Amway pyramidal schemes when you can have full blown commie-nism with a cheerful face.

**Richard** · January-29-24, 01:16 PM

Yea China is a different animal,corruption is illegal,but it is how everything gets done,but the only way they charge you with it,is if you piss somebody off,they use the charge.

The woman in the article I posted,got her degree with the University of Michigan,she had a good offer from Ford locally,but she chose to relocate and go with Tesla.

Right to work is not anti union,it gives you the choice of joining a union or not,forcing somebody to join a union in order to feed their families or locate to another state is socialist or commie-ism because if you do not comply,you do not eat.

There are people in other countries that took over factories after they went bankrupt and the employees formed a Co-op of sorts and ran the company themselves,so now they feast or famine equally.

But people basing it on,the company makes X amount of money so they can afford to pay me more,have zero knowledge of how or what it takes to run a business,if they did and it was that simple,they would be the owners and not the workers.

I know people that work in the southern auto non union factory’s,they live very comfortable lives,pay is based on labor supply and demand.

Ford did it,he did not have enough workers,so he raised the wage in order to entice workers to move up there.

Its not the companies,it’s the people,somebody is always going to be a little bit hungrier then the next guy and willing to work for a couple of dollars less.

**JBMcB** · January-29-24, 05:05 PM

Unions are freaking out in Europe because Tesla's planned factories there only have a few dozen workers per shift.

For those doubtful, Lego has been working this way for a few decades now. A few workers load plastic pellets in one end of the factory, a few workers load pallets of finished toys into trucks on the other end, and a dozen maintenance workers oversee the robots in the middle. Robots handle absolutely everything - warehouse operations, parts management, QA, packaging, etc...

**Cincinnati_Kid** · January-30-24, 09:01 AM

Good luck with that. Musk has been anti-union for as long as I can remember.

**Richard** · January-30-24, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Good luck with that. Musk has been anti-union for as long as I can remember.

The union represents 11 % ,a drop from 14% in less then two years in a workforce of 153 million,so are the 89% of the workforce anti union or just figure it not their cup of tea?

**Henry Whalley** · January-30-24, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Good luck with that. Musk has been anti-union for as long as I can remember.

Agreed, Musk is a fascist who would bring back serfdom if he could.

Rules for the Ruling Class | The New Yorker [[archive.ph)

**Richard** · January-30-24, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

Agreed, Musk is a fascist who would bring back serfdom if he could.

Rules for the Ruling Class | The New Yorker [[archive.ph)

lol you posted why Tesla needs the UAW when clearly they do not because Musk is a billionaire and you are not.

Ford motor company- unionized stock price $11 and change

Tesla - non unionized stock price $191 and change.

The sole reason for forming a corporation is to make money for the shareholders,why do you think corporations exist for your benefit?

Whats the difference between a socialist and a fascist ? None to me.

**canuck** · January-30-24, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

lol you posted why Tesla needs the UAW when clearly they do not because Musk is a billionaire and you are not.

Ford motor company- unionized stock price $11 and change

Tesla - non unionized stock price $191 and change.

The sole reason for forming a corporation is to make money for the shareholders,why do you think corporations exist for your benefit?

Whats the difference between a socialist and a fascist ? None to me.

Well then buy more F150s, and raise the stock price while helping out your fellow Americans. Isn’t that your habitual song and dance?

I mean Tesla is run by a Canadian/South African dual citizen that never bothered to get US citizenship. Heck, Naphta is probably more of a worry to him than Nafta is to the competition.

**drjeff** · January-31-24, 03:58 AM

You clearly don't understand what stocks are or how they work.

**canuck** · January-31-24, 07:18 AM

By all means, don’t leave me hanging, explain away…

**drjeff** · January-31-24, 07:31 AM

I was replying to Richard, sorry.

**canuck** · January-31-24, 09:03 AM

Thumbs up!

**Richard** · January-31-24, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by drjeff

You clearly don't understand what stocks are or how they work.

It does not matter what I personally understand or not,if the objective of a corporation is to make money for its shareholders,who made more for their shareholders?

Ford @ $11 or Those who bought into Tesla @ $11 ?

**Richard** · January-31-24, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

Well then buy more F150s, and raise the stock price while helping out your fellow Americans. Isn’t that your habitual song and dance?

I mean Tesla is run by a Canadian/South African dual citizen that never bothered to get US citizenship. Heck, Naphta is probably more of a worry to him than Nafta is to the competition.

Considering American trucks are currently in the top 3 of the most unreliable sold,I will pass,I do have a newish one but it is for business so customers are paying for it,personally I am not going to pay $80k for a depreciating asset.

Those building the trucks have a household filled with made in China products and do what everybody else does,buy the cheapest products they can find,and the unions they pay to protect their interests as workers did little to prevent that sucking sound which is why their membership is constantly falling but it is easy to blame RTW.

Besides a F150 is not a truck,it’s a car that identifies as a truck,if you cannot put a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back it’s useless.

Granted my F250 SD does what it was designed for,but you cannot fit a sheet of plywood in the back and as a work truck,as most of them are sold for,it’s not necessary to fill them with more gadgets then Carter has liver pills,that makes them unreliable and expensive.

If offered a “fleet truck” without all the extra gadgets,a basic stripped down model without all the gadgets they would probably have a good and reliable basic platform at a lower cost.

**jiminnm** · January-31-24, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

I mean Tesla is run by a Canadian/South African dual citizen that never bothered to get US citizenship. Heck, Naphta is probably more of a worry to him than Nafta is to the competition.

Musk became a US citizen more than 20 years ago.

**401don** · January-31-24, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Besides a F150 is not a truck,it’s a car that identifies as a truck,if you cannot put a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back it’s useless.

Granted my F250 SD does what it was designed for,but you cannot fit a sheet of plywood in the back and as a work truck,as most of them are sold for,it’s not necessary to fill them with more gadgets then Carter has liver pills,that makes them unreliable and expensive.
.

My nephew puts 4x8 plywood in the back of his Maverick but you can't put it in an F150? Okay.

**canuck** · January-31-24, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by jiminnm

Musk became a US citizen more than 20 years ago.

That’s better, you’re right.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · January-31-24, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Considering American trucks are currently in the top 3 of the most unreliable sold,I will pass,I do have a newish one but it is for business so customers are paying for it,personally I am not going to pay $80k for a depreciating asset.

Those building the trucks have a household filled with made in China products and do what everybody else does,buy the cheapest products they can find,and the unions they pay to protect their interests as workers did little to prevent that sucking sound which is why their membership is constantly falling but it is easy to blame RTW.

Besides a F150 is not a truck,it’s a car that identifies as a truck,if you cannot put a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back it’s useless.

Granted my F250 SD does what it was designed for,but you cannot fit a sheet of plywood in the back and as a work truck,as most of them are sold for,it’s not necessary to fill them with more gadgets then Carter has liver pills,that makes them unreliable and expensive.

If offered a “fleet truck” without all the extra gadgets,a basic stripped down model without all the gadgets they would probably have a good and reliable basic platform at a lower cost.

Spoken like a true Patriot, right Richard?

**Jimaz** · January-31-24, 12:49 PM

Judge voids Elon Musk's 'unfathomable' $56 billion Tesla pay package

A Delaware judge tossed out Elon Musk's record-breaking $56 billion Tesla, opens new tab pay package on Tuesday, calling the compensation granted by the EV maker's board "an unfathomable sum" that was unfair to shareholders.

Shares of Tesla dropped about 2% in premarket trade, and some investors seized on the ruling in hopes it might prompt Tesla to overhaul its governance.

The Tesla board has been criticized as failing to provide oversight of its combative, headline-making CEO, who has fought regulators and led several other companies at the same time.

The ruling, which can be appealed, nullifies the largest pay package in corporate America. The judge found the share-based compensation was negotiated by directors who appeared beholden to Musk, currently ranked by Forbes magazine as the world's richest person.

Tesla's 10-year pay agreement with Musk reached in 2018 would be worth around $51 billion at Tuesday's closing price for Tesla stock, accounting for the cost to Musk to exercise the options.

That would be about a quarter of his $210.6 billion fortune, as calculated by Forbes magazine, which currently ranks about $2 billion ahead of LVMH, opens new tab CEO Bernard Arnault of France and his family....

**canuck** · January-31-24, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Considering American trucks are currently in the top 3 of the most unreliable sold,I will pass,I do have a newish one but it is for business so customers are paying for it,personally I am not going to pay $80k for a depreciating asset.

Those building the trucks have a household filled with made in China products and do what everybody else does,buy the cheapest products they can find,and the unions they pay to protect their interests as workers did little to prevent that sucking sound which is why their membership is constantly falling but it is easy to blame RTW.

Besides a F150 is not a truck,it’s a car that identifies as a truck,if you cannot put a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back it’s useless.

Granted my F250 SD does what it was designed for,but you cannot fit a sheet of plywood in the back and as a work truck,as most of them are sold for,it’s not necessary to fill them with more gadgets then Carter has liver pills,that makes them unreliable and expensive.

If offered a “fleet truck” without all the extra gadgets,a basic stripped down model without all the gadgets they would probably have a good and reliable basic platform at a lower cost.

I am also wanting to stay away from buying a new car, it’s easy enough if the one you have is reliable. Whether one buys a 35k or 80k car though, both are depreciating to the point where the main question is how much down the line. Of course Teslers have a certain advantage in terms of reliability in spite of build issues. The cold weather issues are a put-off, the battery replacement may be an issue long term if the carriage is still okay but the cost of anew one is to much to bear.

**canuck** · January-31-24, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Judge voids Elon Musk's 'unfathomable' $56 billion Tesla pay package

210.6 billion dollars. That’s like, "let’s build an ark" kind of money, lol.

**Richard** · January-31-24, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

My nephew puts 4x8 plywood in the back of his Maverick but you can't put it in an F150? Okay.

Good for your nephew,I can stick a 4x8 plywood on the roof of my Jaguar and say it works.

Clearly you have never been in the trades and things have to be explained in detail for you.

In the trades - which most drive trucks to get supplies,the ability to place a 4x8 piece of plywood in the bed flat and still being able to close the tailgate in order to keep the load from sliding out,is the preferred method and the standard of trucks as they used to be.

You never been at an intersection and watched somebody with a load in the back of their truck dump out on the street when they took off?

I had a 1989 Volvo station wagon that I could lay the plywood flat in and close the gate.

If you are cold,come down to Florida,I will give you $10,000 cash if you can lay a 4x8 sheet of plywood flat in the bed of my 2022 F250 and close the gate.

If you cannot then you have to pay me ,but because your nephew can do it in his maverick,what ever that is,you have nothing to lose.

Flat between the wheel wells so the wind cannot catch it and flip it on the cars behind you,not 1/2 in and the other 1/2 hanging out the back,like it would be with the Maverick which is 4.5’ long,so in order to make it a real truck they would have to stretch it another 4’ long and wider so the plywood would fit between the wheel wells.

My 1970 Ford F150 is 50” between the wheel wells and 8’ 6” length in the bed,because they built trucks for the trades and considering most in the trades drive trucks,ya kinda figure they would be built for that reason,but they are not any more,they are luxury cars that identify as a truck,you do not need 3/4 of the garbage they put in them that drives the prices up and causes the service nightmares that they do.

Okay?

The other problem is when they are used in the trades,they are a work truck and workers do not give a crap,pay $80k for a truck and within weeks it will be scratched and dented.

They all used to build fleet trucks,but why sell a durable and reliable truck when you can fluff it up for 10x the money and give people no other choice.