Monroe Blocks Development Starts... National Theatre Facade Moving

**gratiotfaced** · December-04-23, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

What we'll probably see is a shuffling of tenants moving from outdated spaces to newer ones. Then it will be up to the building owners whether or not they want to try to attract new office tenants, or pivot to residential. It's probably a bit wasteful, but those old office buildings can't all be in great condition, so maybe it's better for them to get a renovation to residential.

I bet we'll also see a little bit of movement from the suburbs downtown as businesses want to show that they are in the newest and nicest offices.

I think a reshuffle is likely, especially as tax incentives for residential conversions become more available.

I'd love to see more suburban employers move downtown, but I can't think of any obvious candidates off the bat. Maybe Flagstar?

I think we'll see more employers move downtown again as projects like Michigan Central and UMCI come fully online, but that's still a few years off. Regional transit would also be a huge help with that.

**mikeg19** · December-05-23, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by gratiotfaced

Regional transit would also be a huge help with that.

It would, but I just don't see this coming in the future. Aside from a fleet of busses, I don't believe any meaningful mass transit will be running up the spokes to 8 mile and beyond in my lifetime. Unless DG wants to start throwing hundreds of millions of his cash into it, there will be no expansion of the Q line. Even in DG's own words recently, it was proof concept to the Fed that A) We could build this B) we can operate it C) Lets talk in the near future about the Gov investing into expansion. The Q line has been operating for 6 years now & I have not seen rider numbers justifying the massive expansion of the system. Yea, the younger generation absolutely wants mass transit, but whos footing the bill to make it happen? Maybe 10 years from now if there is a massive influx of people into downtown and surrounding area, there is a realistic discussion about an expansion of the Q line or some form of it. Hey, maybe the Q line expansion and District Detroit can have a dual groundbreaking ceremony......

**drjeff** · December-11-23, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

It would, but I just don't see this coming in the future. Aside from a fleet of busses, I don't believe any meaningful mass transit will be running up the spokes to 8 mile and beyond in my lifetime. Unless DG wants to start throwing hundreds of millions of his cash into it, there will be no expansion of the Q line. Even in DG's own words recently, it was proof concept to the Fed that A) We could build this B) we can operate it C) Lets talk in the near future about the Gov investing into expansion. The Q line has been operating for 6 years now & I have not seen rider numbers justifying the massive expansion of the system. Yea, the younger generation absolutely wants mass transit, but whos footing the bill to make it happen? Maybe 10 years from now if there is a massive influx of people into downtown and surrounding area, there is a realistic discussion about an expansion of the Q line or some form of it. Hey, maybe the Q line expansion and District Detroit can have a dual groundbreaking ceremony......

There is no reason the constant rebuilding of roads and streets [[many of which are not highly used by the general public) should be given a blank check, whereas any mention of public transit begins with "we can't afford it."

**Gistok** · December-11-23, 03:49 AM

LOL... are some of you posting on the wrong thread... the mass transit thread is right next door to this one in the DYES list of threads...

**Danny** · December-11-23, 07:46 AM

Gilbert

I'm waiting for your Delta City to be built. Or you're still waiting the government to give your some more money to expand your toy trains.

**RAPLAS** · January-29-24, 05:09 PM

National Theater went down today after the facade removal completed.

It looks like the facade parts are being stored under the white tent behind the old theater.

**Gistok** · January-29-24, 06:42 PM

Looks like the startup of the Cadillac Square fronting Food Hall and National Theatre facade with performance venue[s] behind it can begin as planned later this year, and the rest of the Monroe block and in addition to 90% of the National block can have the winter bazaar shifted slightly to the north and expanded, until once high rises on the 2 blocks begin in the future.

**gratiotfaced** · January-29-24, 10:12 PM

I'd like to see more of this planned development that's supposedly starting this year. We've seen only one rendering of the ground level. Nothing about the height or tower design, the programming inside, the interior layouts etc. Since this project received those massive transformational incentives, the public should be entitled to some understanding of what will be built.

**Gistok** · January-30-24, 12:13 AM

^ I totally agree with you gratiotfaced. One question I have is this... has Gilbert & Co. gotten all of the Monroe Blocks financing funds [or maybe a better way to say it is... have they started getting the annual tax incentives?].

I bet that at this moment that Gilbert & Co. don't yet know what the final look of the towers will be.

The Pandemic and Work-from-home have made a mess of their project planning.

I think they are waiting to see how the work-in-office with some work-from-home hybrid scenarios work out, vs working from home full time or working in the office full time. And that will take time.

**gratiotfaced** · January-30-24, 01:52 AM

It's odd how the big developers are still including lots of office space instead of going all-in on residential. Office demand is still low, residential occupancy remains high. Go where the demand and climbing revenue is.

Gilbert could make this a big 600 unit residential complex and immediately provide a huge boost to his retail tenants in the process, many of whom have been struggling ever since the office workers left. Better yet, go after Target too now that they're free from City Club's incompetency.

**stasu1213** · January-30-24, 10:05 AM

I doubt if anything will be developed on the Monroe Block site anytime soon. The Midway venue stalled any development by being extended year after year. Any development so adopt the residential/office concept. That condos or apartments designed with extra rooms for office space for remotely working from home. Bedrock or Gilbert could have a City Target in one of their properties in downtown or midtown.

**K-slice** · January-30-24, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I doubt if anything will be developed on the Monroe Block site anytime soon. The Midway venue stalled any development by being extended year after year. Any development so adopt the residential/office concept. That condos or apartments designed with extra rooms for office space for remotely working from home. Bedrock or Gilbert could have a City Target in one of their properties in downtown or midtown.

You really think Bedrock is giving priority to the Midway over actually starting construction? Really? I think you've been listening to Ilitch excuses for too long.

I can say with certainty that this project will start in 2024.

**JonWylie** · January-30-24, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by K-slice

You really think Bedrock is giving priority to the Midway over actually starting construction? Really? I think you've been listening to Ilitch excuses for too long.

I can say with certainty that this project will start in 2024.

Maybe you can add some more specifics if you know, but I always thought the timeline was to start after the draft wraps up, because maybe there's some draft related programming that's going to use this space?

**mikeg19** · January-30-24, 04:07 PM

I still don't understand the need for the office space in this project. You could go all residential with ground floor retail in these towers and I'd suspect the residential demand is there to fill them.

**Gistok** · January-30-24, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I still don't understand the need for the office space in this project. You could go all residential with ground floor retail in these towers and I'd suspect the residential demand is there to fill them.

I would agree. The Gilbert owned 40 story Cadillac Tower is likely going to be converted to residential anyway. Although no plans have been announced for it, the floors are too short for office space... but ideal for residential. They might as well make the rest of the 2 blocks residential to anchor continuous night time activity in Campus Martius and Cadillac Square.

**stasu1213** · January-31-24, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by RAPLAS

National Theater went down today after the facade removal completed.

It looks like the facade parts are being stored under the white tent behind the old theater.

Thar theatre nor the facade isn't coming back

**stinkytofu** · January-31-24, 09:25 AM

I'm leery about this post-COVID, but the fact they are even taking these steps seems encouraging.

If they were planning on continuing to just sit on the property, why put the $$$ in for the multiple demos?

**Gistok** · January-31-24, 11:20 AM

Anybody who thinks that Gilbert will not reuse the National Theatre facade... has not been paying attention to Gilbert's track record. He took down all of the massive Caryatid statues from the huge Book Building cornice, and had them restored or replaced, as he has done with so much other historic Detroit artifacts.

**stasu1213** · January-31-24, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by gratiotfaced

I think a reshuffle is likely, especially as tax incentives for residential conversions become more available.

I'd love to see more suburban employers move downtown, but I can't think of any obvious candidates off the bat. Maybe Flagstar?

I think we'll see more employers move downtown again as projects like Michigan Central and UMCI come fully online, but that's still a few years off. Regional transit would also be a huge help with that.

Don't forget shopping. Downtown doesn't have the shopping the most suburban cities provide. Novi, Allen Park, Roseville, Hall Road , etc provide shopping and other amenities that Downtown/Midtown Detroit still don't provide.

**RAPLAS** · February-09-24, 02:27 PM

2024 NFL Draft area plan revealed - The main stage is taking the old National Theatre location.

**gratiotfaced** · February-27-24, 07:05 PM

Should we be concerned that this new Monroe Blocks project, or the "Development at Cadillac Square," seems to have almost no public info just two months from groundbreaking?

The previous Monroe Blocks plan had a multitude of renderings, cinematic videos, programming diagrams, building height info etc. Now we've only seen a single ground-level rendering for this one and some vague square footage numbers. It's getting fishy to me.

**southen** · February-27-24, 07:41 PM

They have given themselves the timeline that after the Draft they are going to start building "something." I imagine that we will get more details come April to piggyback off the excitement of the event.

I am still bummed we wont be getting the first iteration.

**Gistok** · February-27-24, 09:08 PM

Let's see... Gilbert just got done spending $320 million on fixing up the Book Building/Tower... and is finishing up on the $1.4 billion Hudson's Building/Tower, and is finishing off the $550 million Wayne County Criminal Justice Center & Jail over on E. Warren so that it will move the jails out of downtown, and he can get more development land.

What exactly seems fishy?

He said that after the NFL Draft event he would start on the 1st phase of the 2 block Monroe development. That is still 2 months away. He has said that the first part of Monroe will be the frontage along Cadillac Square... namely the Food Halls, National facade performance venues, and likely starting on the Cadillac Tower. Originally the Cadillac Tower, which he purchased in 2021, was not part of the 2 block Monroe complex, but is now going to be an integral part of it. So the Monroe complex will now have a larger footprint than originally planned. So it will be a phased project.

Should we be worried? Haven't seen any reason to be, except for the residual employment effects on downtown office space utilization after the Pandemic.

**gratiotfaced** · February-27-24, 09:52 PM

I don't mean "fishy" as in something nefarious, but rather that it's just very unusual for Bedrock to be so quiet about plans. Hopefully we learn and see more soon.

**Gistok** · February-29-24, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by gratiotfaced

I don't mean "fishy" as in something nefarious, but rather that it's just very unusual for Bedrock to be so quiet about plans. Hopefully we learn and see more soon.

Yeah I kind of figured... I think that Gilbert may want to see how the Hudson's block fills out before tackling the towers of the Monroe blocks. But I am excited to see the Cadillac Square get some street scene development. And the 40 story Cadillac Tower... with ceilings too low for modern office use will make for an amazing residential tower.