Monroe Blocks Development Starts... National Theatre Facade Moving

**Gistok** · October-21-23, 03:34 AM

Saw a post and photo on Facebook today, from HistoricDetroit.org folks.

It looks like they are starting the process of moving the National Theatre entrance facade/towers from Monroe Avenue to nearby Cadillac Square [see attached photo].

Facebook post:

The National Theatre in Detroit, Albert Kahn’s only surviving theater design, prepares to make its big move as part of Bedrock's new project on Cadillac Square. The long-vacant architectural gem is finally going to see use again, albeit at a different address. It is being deconstructed and restored into a music and performance venue.

The big question is how are they doing the facade moving? Breaking it into large chunks? Or disassembling it and reassembling it??

Article on the new location of the National facade...
https://detroit.eater.com/2023/8/23/...gja5jAOFFVucP8

Photo by Helmut Ziewers/HistoricDetroit.org

**Jimaz** · October-21-23, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

...The big question is how are they doing the facade moving? Breaking it into large chunks? Or disassembling it and reassembling it??

...

A ludicrous image of a team of Amish farmers moving the whole thing came to mind and gratefully left.

But seriously, I'd guess it should be disassembled and reassembled by the look of those missing arch blocks. Is there a story behind that? There are quite a few missing. At least 14?

**stasu1213** · October-21-23, 08:11 AM

There were a development planned for the spot where Midway summer and winter activities are currently held. Were plans of development stalled just for activities to continue on the site? There were plans to renovate The National Theatre for more than 10 years. Midway was supposed to end at the end of this past summer so the work could began on the development on the site.

**Gistok** · October-21-23, 10:04 AM

^ The interior of the National is in horrific condition. Most of the ornate plasterwork fell to the floor long ago. I was in the theatre back in 2000 when Preservation Detroit [called Preservation Wayne back then] volunteers emptied 4 large dumpsters of fallen plaster from the auditorium floor.

We did that volunteer work so that the city could try to market the building for renovation. However, due to the condition of the auditorium, nothing ever became of that. In 2005 the theatre facade got one of those 2005 Superbowl Facade Improvement Grants, which is why the theatre facade looks to be in such good condition.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · October-21-23, 02:26 PM

I remember seeing ads in the Free Press way back in my childhood, when the National was a “burlesque” theater. I remember “Busty Russell” and “Lena Tower, the Pisa Pizza” as two of the performers. The ads said the Lena Tower would “bend over backwards to please you.”

**Danny** · October-22-23, 08:17 AM

Gilbert is making just his version of the 'Arc de Triumphe' next to a spot that one of projects will never be off the ground.

**Gistok** · October-22-23, 10:52 AM

Looks to me as though the Monroe Blocks development will be 2 parts, with the Food Hall and Entertainment Venue along Cadillac Square, and the office/residential buildings along Monroe Ave.

The Cadillac Square part will likely be first to complete, and will likely help with improving on the generation of more foot traffic around Campus Martius and lower Woodward. That in turn will help with filling commercial space on the first floor of buildings in the area.

**masterblaster** · October-23-23, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Saw a post and photo on Facebook today, from HistoricDetroit.org folks.

It looks like they are starting the process of moving the National Theatre entrance facade/towers from Monroe Avenue to nearby Cadillac Square [see attached photo].

Facebook post:

The National Theatre in Detroit, Albert Kahn’s only surviving theater design, prepares to make its big move as part of Bedrock's new project on Cadillac Square. The long-vacant architectural gem is finally going to see use again, albeit at a different address. It is being deconstructed and restored into a music and performance venue.

The big question is how are they doing the facade moving? Breaking it into large chunks? Or disassembling it and reassembling it??

Article on the new location of the National facade...
https://detroit.eater.com/2023/8/23/...gja5jAOFFVucP8

Photo by Helmut Ziewers/HistoricDetroit.org

Yes, the theater facade is carefully being disassembled piece by piece, as we speak. I thought you lived in the metro area. Why don't you just come downtown and see for yourself?

**401don** · October-23-23, 12:01 PM

Is there really a need for two new 2,000 seat concert venues, this one and the addition to the Music Hall? The Fillmore seems to fill this role just fine along with the other theaters.

**Gistok** · October-23-23, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Yes, the theater facade is carefully being disassembled piece by piece, as we speak. I thought you lived in the metro area. Why don't you just come downtown and see for yourself?

Yes I live 20 minutes from downtown... and the reason I POSTED this thread, and asked folks that may know more is...

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR...

**Gistok** · October-23-23, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Is there really a need for two new 2,000 seat concert venues, this one and the addition to the Music Hall? The Fillmore seems to fill this role just fine along with the other theaters.

Detroit already has an oversupply of performance venues. Between all the ones in the theatre district, and those in the casinos, there is a shortage of "product" to perform at the venues. That was already a problem before with smaller venues, but the Pandemic made it worse.

Most of the smaller venues [outside of the casinos] are making up for the difference in fewer shows, by catering to more weddings. The Gem is now almost exclusively weddings.

If Music Hall can handle the bookings of 2 venues [1778 seats for the Music Hall, and 1900 seats for the planned new theatre], then good for them!

But the irony is that the 2000 seat United Artists, 1700 seat Adams, and 1800 seat Madison theatres were all torn down, after decline and neglect.

**stasu1213** · October-23-23, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Detroit already has an oversupply of performance venues. Between all the ones in the theatre district, and those in the casinos, there is a shortage of "product" to perform at the venues. That was already a problem before with smaller venues, but the Pandemic made it worse.

Most of the smaller venues [outside of the casinos] are making up for the difference in fewer shows, by catering to more weddings. The Gem is now almost exclusively weddings.

If Music Hall can handle the bookings of 2 venues [1778 seats for the Music Hall, and 1900 seats for the planned new theatre], then good for them!

But the irony is that the 2000 seat United Artists, 1700 seat Adams, and 1800 seat Madison theatres were all torn down, after decline and neglect.

The question should be why is there a shortage of product in Detroit.

**401don** · October-23-23, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

The question should be why is there a shortage of product in Detroit.

I don't think there's an actual shortage of product. There's a shortage of discretionary cash for all these events. People only have so much to spend and with all the big concerts and sports there's not much left over for the 2nd tier acts that still command 50 bucks a ticket. Motorcity can book these nostalgia acts to an older audience as a lost leader and draw them into the casino to gamble, eat & drink.

**Franksgoodnephew** · October-29-23, 03:07 PM

Why move it? Isn't that tantamount to tearing it away from its birthplace?! Its bad enough this town destroys so much of its history,[[think Carl's Chop House, et.al..). Or look at what is left of the once-glorious Michigan Theater/parking garage [[sic). Don't get me started on Tiger Stadium!!!!

**Gistok** · November-29-23, 10:51 PM

The latest image of the slow dismantling of the National Theatre facade. Work on its' new home will commence after the April 2024 NFL Draft, which will be held in Campus Martius & Hart Plaza.

**stasu1213** · November-30-23, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

The latest image of the slow dismantling of the National Theatre facade. Work on its' new home will commence after the April 2024 NFL Draft, which will be held in Campus Martius & Hart Plaza.

All of the work done to it, Bonstelle, and other projects saving the Hudson site probably are window dressing for the NFL draft. Work will slow to almost a standstill after the event is over.

**Gistok** · November-30-23, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

All of the work done to it, Bonstelle, and other projects saving the Hudson site probably are window dressing for the NFL draft. Work will slow to almost a standstill after the event is over.

I partly disagree. I think that the Cadillac Square part of the Monroe Blocks... the venues with the National Theatre facade and the Food Hall on the corner at Campus Martius will be worked on starting next year. The rest of the 2 blocks will be empty, until whenever they build the office tower and residential buildings. I think Gilbert wants to tie Campus Martius together with Cadillac Square [and a rehabbed residential Cadillac Tower] and the Hudson Block.

Whatever functions they used the one Monroe block for, such as movies, etc. They can move those functions to the other block, until the time when towers rise.

**stasu1213** · November-30-23, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I partly disagree. I think that the Cadillac Square part of the Monroe Blocks... the venues with the National Theatre facade and the Food Hall on the corner at Campus Martius will be worked on starting next year. The rest of the 2 blocks will be empty, until whenever they build the office tower and residential buildings. I think Gilbert wants to tie Campus Martius together with Cadillac Square [and a rehabbed residential Cadillac Tower] and the Hudson Block.

Whatever functions they used the one Monroe block for, such as movies, etc. They can move those functions to the other block, until the time when towers rise.

Whatever happened to the EMAGINE theatre that was supposed to open in downtown Detroit?

**Warrenite84** · November-30-23, 07:09 PM

I am not a fan of the hodge podge food hall design. Something like the previous layout with perhaps a tasteful nod to the theatre facade IMHO would be better. Too much like the red piping we used to have on Washington Blvd.

**Gistok** · November-30-23, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Warrenite84

I am not a fan of the hodge podge food hall design. Something like the previous layout with perhaps a tasteful nod to the theatre facade IMHO would be better. Too much like the red piping we used to have on Washington Blvd.

Totally agree... "hodge podge" is a good description. Hopefully that is just one of those preliminary designs, where the final design ties it all together with the some white terra cotta [which they are adding to the Hudsons Tower in thin bands]. It dosn't have to be a pastiche design, but something pleasing to the eye.

**ABetterDetroit** · November-30-23, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Whatever happened to the EMAGINE theatre that was supposed to open in downtown Detroit?

They decided. It is going in by the Sears and the Radio Shack.

**stasu1213** · December-01-23, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

They decided. It is going in by the Sears and the Radio Shack.

Lol. There's no Sears and Radio Shack.

**K-slice** · December-02-23, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

All of the work done to it, Bonstelle, and other projects saving the Hudson site probably are window dressing for the NFL draft. Work will slow to almost a standstill after the event is over.

There is of course a push to get projects that CAN be complete by the draft completed, but I think you're greatly overestimating the value developers are putting on the draft, or maybe underestimating the events Detroit will have lined up AFTER the draft. NCAA Final Four is coming in 2027 and there is a good shot we get a Big 10 championship game in the next few years.

No one is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on development that's just window dressing for an event they have no stake in.

**mikeg19** · December-04-23, 10:40 AM

I still don't see where the massive need to new office space is being generated from. Between Monroe Blocks and District Detroit [[yes I know, believe it when we see it), I can't see where developers can justify the cost for tens of thousands of feet of new office space. Seems like residential demand for downtown living is still at a decent rate and with hopefully softening interest rates that demand should only increase.

**JonWylie** · December-04-23, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I still don't see where the massive need to new office space is being generated from. Between Monroe Blocks and District Detroit [[yes I know, believe it when we see it), I can't see where developers can justify the cost for tens of thousands of feet of new office space. Seems like residential demand for downtown living is still at a decent rate and with hopefully softening interest rates that demand should only increase.

What we'll probably see is a shuffling of tenants moving from outdated spaces to newer ones. Then it will be up to the building owners whether or not they want to try to attract new office tenants, or pivot to residential. It's probably a bit wasteful, but those old office buildings can't all be in great condition, so maybe it's better for them to get a renovation to residential.

I bet we'll also see a little bit of movement from the suburbs downtown as businesses want to show that they are in the newest and nicest offices.