Raping while white gets them eight years probation

[1953]

8 years probation for rape of any kind seems too lenient, but its hard to say for certain without hearing the details of the case in full. Two men who very intentionally go out on the town looking for someone to drug and rape would, IMHO, deserve a stricter sentence than two men who had a consensual relationship with another that included some bad choices. I know we like to pretend everything is black and white sometimes, but more intentional and malicious behavior should be punished more severely than lesser gradients of the same.

1953

[Henry Whalley]

8 years probation for rape of any kind seems too lenient, but its hard to say for certain without hearing the details of the case in full. Two men who very intentionally go out on the town looking for someone to drug and rape would, IMHO, deserve a stricter sentence than two men who had a consensual relationship with another that included some bad choices. I know we like to pretend everything is black and white sometimes, but more intentional and malicious behavior should be punished more severely than lesser gradients of the same.

1953

Just guessing. But my guess is that they had expensive and well-connected attorneys

[southen]

Such a fun read. For the life of me I can't understand why Republicans struggle with women and minorities. If only those two groups would listen harder to old, white, men with zero perspective on their lived experiences the world would be such a better place.

[Richard]

Such a fun read. For the life of me I can't understand why Republicans struggle with women and minorities. If only those two groups would listen harder to old, white, men with zero perspective on their lived experiences the world would be such a better place.

Actually it was the republicans that freed the slaves and fought to give them their voting rights,they were not the party of the KKK and Jim Crow.

They did not warehouse them in ghettos then offer the women a new place while forbidding the women to have men which destroyed the African American family nucleus for generations to come.

When you are on the subject of old men,you will be there at some point in time.

In case you are not in the loop in your young days,just ask your fellow young liberal/progressives,socialist commie buddies in Seattle,Portland,LA where crime and homelessness is out of control with 60,000 sleeping in the streets how is all of that is working out.

Even worse,your idea of how things should be has caused millions to move or flee in the past couple of years to other states,that includes women and African Americans.

If your way was the way people should think,then when those ideas are implemented in Michigan and Detroit,people would be moving there in droves,but they are not are they?

So you got your wish,millions did get out of the way for you and now those that are left,women and African Americans included that could not afford to flee are trapped in fear in your utopian cities that you feel should be run like they are.

You guys thought you were slick by hijacking the Democratic Party in order to force your ideas,but when millions pack up and move,which includes all ages,sex,and colors,that might be your first clue that your thought on how things should be is not the way the majority feels.

Then of course the first card to pull would be,itÂ’s the old white republicans fault because that is the progressive way,divide and conquer while trying to direct attention on somebody else.

Florida is not a progressive commie state,and almost 1 million moved there in the last couple of years,Michigan is hell bent on becoming a socialist,progressive commie state and has very little population gains consistently.

Who is going to be left for you crush down so you can come in and save the day while pretending to care?

Sooner or later you run out of other peoples money and then while you are sleeping and defecting in the streets after the normal people had enough and fled,you will still be standing there shaking your fist at the old white republicans and blaming it on them.

ThatÂ’s the thing about old people,they have been around long enough to see the devastation and destruction of families while you play your little social experiments with peoples lives while not having a clue.

When you were on top of MTS you should have looked around the city and saw what your mindset can do to a city,or maybe you did but were to blind to see the reality.

Old people have been around long enough to see the devastation left behind when a swam of locusts devour a city,but these days even the young people can see and understand,thatÂ’s why they are also in the group that is fleeing your mindset for freedom from your oppression.

That is the biggest hurdle Detroit has to overcome,the mindset that destroyed it in the first place,but it is still there trying as hard as possible in order to force the normal ones that are left and are trying to make it a better place to live,you are that mindset and their hurdle.

You can buy a African or woman or child slave on the open market today,just like you can buy a head of lettuce,it’s not old white republicans old even old white democrats that dream of the old days.

It business as usual but because it involves African Americans selling other African Americans it’s okay with all of those fake people who stand up and claim they are the advocate savior or spokesmodel for women and African Americans.

The constitution guarantees every United States citizen equal rights,there is also a path to follow if an individual feels they have been deprived of them,when you become a self appointed advocate you are telling them that your voice is the one that matters and not theirs,they have a voice,they do not need you to be their savior,they need the likes of you to step aside so they can enjoy the freedoms that they are guaranteed and break the chains that you encased them in.

[Henry Whalley]

actually it was the republicans that freed the slaves and fought to give them their voting rights,they were not the party of the kkk and jim crow.

tldr

[Richard]

tldr

Little mind’s cannot comprehend.

I am not going to crawl down into the gutter and post for the sake of posting then personally attack those who disagree with you,seems kinda pointless to me.

But that is the objective is it not,keep people divided into individual groups so people cannot come together as one for a common cause.

Find a villain,if you cannot,create one so you have somebody that you can point to and say - look over there,it is their fault,in order to drawn attention away from you.

Socialists,commies and progressives are the common enemy,you guys think you are slick playing this republicans against democrats deflection game,but we are well aware of your wanton ways and will always win in the end.

Mostly because your path has a historical history of self destruction.

Just like with your race baiting thread title,next you will probably come up with something equally silly like saying a city is attacking gays because they will not allow a rainbow flag on public property.

Notice the pattern.

RT you are not.

[Henry Whalley]

Little mind’s cannot comprehend.

tldr

[Rocket]

Little mind’s cannot comprehend.

Richard, I came to realize something lately that shocked me, but shouldn't have.

The Left already KNOWS their side is evil and corrupt, it's just that they're OK with it. Proud almost.

They're OK with being poor and enslaved, just so long as "their side" wins.

This came as a shock to me, and perhaps it will to you. But when you come to realize this, you'll stop feeling the need to try to convince them of the truth.

[drjeff]

Richard, I came to realize something lately that shocked me, but shouldn't have.

The Left already KNOWS their side is evil and corrupt, it's just that they're OK with it. Proud almost.

They're OK with being poor and enslaved, just so long as "their side" wins.

This came as a shock to me, and perhaps it will to you. But when you come to realize this, you'll stop feeling the need to try to convince them of the truth.

Says the party whose last term as president resulted in the most criminal convictions by any administration in history, and likely more than every other administration combined. And that's not counting the 71 felonies the ex-pres will be going on trial for. you MAGAts just accuse everyone else of what you yourselves are guilty of, like playground children and at about the same intellectual level.

[Honky Tonk]

Says the party whose last term as president resulted in the most criminal convictions by any administration in history, and likely more than every other administration combined. And that's not counting the 71 felonies the ex-pres will be going on trial for. you MAGAts just accuse everyone else of what you yourselves are guilty of, like playground children and at about the same intellectual level.

Here you go "dr" libbey...

https://www.news-journalonline.com/s...t/70563286007/

[drjeff]

Here you go "dr" libbey...

https://www.news-journalonline.com/s...t/70563286007/

WTF does that have to do with anything? I was advocating for giving the rapists who are the subject of this thread a lot more than probation.

[Honky Tonk]

WTF does that have to do with anything? I was advocating for giving the rapists who are the subject of this thread a lot more than probation.

Hmmmm.... Well, I'll explain it to you, doc. The title of the thread reads "Raping while white gets them eight years probation". Which implies that "white" rapists get their wrists slapped, while "rapists of color" get thrown under the bus. This "white" rapist, received a life sentence for a rape he committed. Catching on? The rest of your rant, has to do your political views, and has nothing to do with what's being discussed here.

[Henry Whalley]

...The rest of your rant, has to do your political views, and has nothing to do with what's being discussed here.

Hopefully, the day will come when recognizing the brute fact of racism will cease to be a political issue. Then mankind will begin to recover from its addiction to hatred and live like it says in the good book.

[Canadian Visitor]

Ok.

As a Canadian, I would not normally see fit to comment on U.S. criminal case with no connection to Canada, or anything all that novel about it.

However, the level of vitriol with very limited actual information, made me go search for a more detailed account, so I could see what transpired here.

A fairly completely account can be had via this Houston Chronical Account, which is behind a paywall.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...l-18278113.php

For those unaware, there is a way around paywalls, but I'm loathe to put it out there widely as journalists do need to earn some money.

I will advise, if you need to, google paywall, jump and archive in one search, you'll find a path.

****

That said, I reviewed the details.

The first thing one needs to know is that the criminal case here was filed in 2019, after the victim came forward with his story in 2018.

Thing is, the offense dates from 2010.

This is important, as it means the victim did not get any bloodwork done establishing what was or was not his system, at the time of the criminal act. [[I say criminal act, since a guilt plea was entered here).

****

So, what we would have had, had the matter gone to trial, was 2 people [[the accused/convicted) who would have testified that the sexual encounter was entirely consensual. There was only one accusing witness, and no corroborating physical evidence.

The charge laid, in accordance with the victim's allegations, was Aggravated Sexual Assault.

This would have carried a significant jail term, had there been a conviction. That, however, would have been a very challenging hurdle to cross given 2 accused with no criminal history, so far as I'm aware, testifying that the defendant made the thing up.

***

On the day the trial was to begin, the defense made a surprise move to suggest a plea deal.

That plea deal involved a guilty plea, by both men, to the lesser offense of Sexual Assault.

The deal included, what is, in effect, the 8 years probation [[actually deferred sentence as a matter of law); and being placed on the Sex Offender Registry.

***

Had the matter gone to trial, the victim would have brutally cross examined on his sexual history and choices.

That's not particularly fair, but a reality in such cases.

Here's the kicker though; The victim supported the plea deal

****

The deal avoided any further pain, or privacy violations for the victim, while securing a conviction that might well have not been obtained at trial.

****

Is the sentence 'fair' in light of what the convicted were accused of doing?

I think most of us would say 'no'.

But if the alternative were they they not be convicted at all, get off with no punishment except their legal fees, surely, that would be worse.

****

I'm not sure why posters here often fail to seek out the details of stories they see fit to comment on.

If you don't understand what you're talking about, you should reserve comment, or merely ask questions.

This is true irrespective of one's politics, sex/gender/age/background etc.

This is not a case of a judge or a prosecutor seeking or granting a lenient sentence.

This is a case of plea deal in a case where a conviction would have been a challenge to obtain, the attempt would have been very difficult on the victim.

Race, relevant to so much discourse in the U.S., including disparate sentencing in criminal proceedings, was not relevant here.

[Henry Whalley]

...Race, relevant to so much discourse in the U.S., including disparate sentencing in criminal proceedings, was not relevant here.

You said a mouthful [TLDR] with all due respect. But the way I see it, the opera rapists are proof on the hoof that whites do much better than minorities vis-a-vis John Law. Statistics support this fact, but this story shows the reality behind our statistics.

People I know were shaken to the core when O.J. was acquitted because whites aren't used to seeing black men with good attorneys and aren't used to seeing blacks declared innocent regardless of the evidence.

[Canadian Visitor]

You said a mouthful [TLDR]

There is no respect to anyone, when you type TLDR.

What I wrote is less than a 2 minute read.

Easy. I did all the work for you.

If you can't be bothered, you have no moral right to comment on anything I posted or this case at all.

I will call out right wing, racist, BS, every day of the week. I'm not going to tolerate it from the left either.

To misrepresent the substance of this case, because you're lazy, too lazy to spend a whopping 2 minutes reading, is inexcusable.

Its borderline sociopathic.

***

But the way I see it, the opera rapists are proof on the hoof that whites do much better than minorities vis-a-vis John Law. Statistics support this fact, but this story shows the reality behind our statistics.

Here's the thing, there's zero question that there is racial disparity associated with criminal sentencing in the U.S.

None.

Statistics do indeed support that.

This particular case does not.

***

Equally important is to note that while racism in an overt sense [[someone consciously choosing to be tougher or more lenient based on someone's skin colour, be that a prosecutor, a judge or a jury is a thing, a very real thing); that class discrimination is at least similarly substantial, if not larger [[Which adversely affects a group that is disproportionately more low-income)

People are treated differently based on whether police, prosecutors, judges and juries can relate to them.

That does sometimes get a middle-class or rich person a more lenient verdict/sentence than someone who is poor.

Irrespective of skin colour. That the latter is an additional issue in some cases multiplies the statistical evidence.

****

All of that is real, and the case for change, which presumably you advocate is harmed, when you take a case that is completely off point, and try to use it, erroneously to reinforce your view.

***

There are clearly some very racist and otherwise obnoxious people on this forum [[There are some excellent ones too, though they tend to more quiet).

But if you want to move the needle, you need to pick your fights, this, was not that case.

People I know were shaken to the core when O.J. was acquitted because whites aren't used to seeing black men with good attorneys and aren't used to seeing blacks declared innocent regardless of the evidence.

The above is an example of class, rather than race being at issue.

Money is what drove that outcome, along with manner of speech and dress.

Quite right to note that many rich people, disproportionately white, in the U.S.'buy justice'; which poor people [[disproportionately black, in the U.S.) don't get to do.

But you ought not to conflate that w/racism, a real, but distinct issue.

You also ought not to conflate a plea deal w/a jury or judge verdict or sentence, particularly one in which the victim supported the outcome.

[Richard]

Hopefully, the day will come when recognizing the brute fact of racism will cease to be a political issue. Then mankind will begin to recover from its addiction to hatred and live like it says in the good book.

It will never happen as long as people like you are around feeding the flames and exploiting racism.

The good book also says, judge not lest you be judged,not sure why you would reference it but not follow it ?

[Henry Whalley]

...judge not lest you be judged

So, we're not supposed to judge rapists?

[Richard]

So, we're not supposed to judge rapists?

Your intent with the post had little to do with rapists,the intent was to take a case and without providing or taking into account the details and circumstances surrounding the case you made it black and white.

No different then not allowing a flag equates to attacks on gays.

You are doing no different then mainstream media and using inflammatory thread titles in order to,well,inflame.

I have not been following the details on the riverboat thing but the headlines first came out as a bunch of white guys attacked a black riverboat worker.

It was not some American citizens attacked another American citizen,because in reality that is how it should be looked at.

There are people of all races that want to keep racism alive for a multitude of reasons,it is actually quite profitable when you look at the millions BLM generated.

We will never get rid of race issues,they have been there long before this country was even established and nobody is actually clear on how much of it actually occurs.

If I am white and you are black and I do not like you,it has little to do with racism but yet there will be someone,as we see,that will say because I am white and you are black I am racist because I do not like you.

African American and Africans are and have been tools from the beginning.

They were tools to generate income for the other African Americans that rounded them up and sold them to the slavers,so they cared little about each other at that time.

They were tools to generate income on the plantations,that were owned by both blacks and whites,and even after 600,000 Americans died fighting under the ruse of freeing the slaves the politicians started using them as a tool for a means to an end and still do to this day.

Like I posted before,you can buy an African slave on the market today and nobody gives a sh*t about that,so all of this stuff about slavery and the past is a load of crap and just a continuous facade in order to keep people in little groups so they can control them and generate votes and cash.

If you are going that route,they never actually left the plantation,they just got nicer digs.

They say 80% of African Americans in the U.S. are direct descendants of slaves in America,stands to reason,but the reality is in Africa they would not exist because there is no generational bloodlines left,if their ancestors that were rounded up by their fellow African brothers and sold to the slavers had not done so,80% of African Americans would not even exist.

Their ancestorÂ’s paid the ultimate price for the freedomÂ’s that they have today,had they not,they would not even exist.

A percentage of African Americans today embrace and support a political party that enslaved them and has done everything in their power generation after generation to keep them enslaved,maybe not in chains that you can physically see,but chains none the less.

So people say the whites need to stop being racist while on the same hand fully support the ones that push racism as a means to an end,that is why racism will always exist in this country by design.

If you want to confront the past in order to move into the future you have to be honest about it and look deep.

As far as I am personally concerned,as long as you can buy a African on the market today nobody including African Americans in this country could really care less about slavery and it is all about a payday.

The constitution guarantees every American citizen equal right,that is the law that is supposed to be followed above anything else.

You do not need to push for voting rights,segregation,blacks cannot drink from white water fountains,equal opportunity,free housing for the womenfolk but no father figures allowed,destroying communities.

Those and many more were all designed in order to cause divisions in society and stoke the flames of racism and actually create it where it dies not exist on peoples minds as a means to an end.

It does not matter what the good book says.

The constitution says EVERY American citizen is to be treated equally,it does not say give special privileges to one person over another because of their skin color or their origins or their religion.

The constitution does not see color it sees us all as one,if you want to end racism in America then you have to start with the ones promoting it and supporting it,with the full understanding that you will never end it because at the end of the day,power and money also does not see skin color unless it benefits them.

But like I said,if people were really all that bothered about the whole slavery thing,it would not exist today so motives behind that are questionable at best and an insult to the ones that were actually slaves and paid that price.

Above everything else the constitution is the one thing that binds us as one,it’s the one thing we should all follow as Americans but it is also the one thing that the same people that cry racism around every bend are doing their best to up end.

The religions that we personally follow, we do so because that constitution guarantees that we have the right to follow the religion of our choice,we do not have to like gays or approve of their actions,we do have to respect that under the constitution they have the same rights as everybody else,so if they want to boink a person of the same sex they have that right.

Until we spend less time grouping people or being manipulated into doing so and spend less time giving credit and supporting those who choose to keep us divided,we get what we get.

I do not like commies and socialists but if they are American citizens,I have to respect their rights under that constitution to exist in this country,which is why they always have,just as the Nazis,skin heads and every other group I do not personally approve of.

But that’s how they keep people divided,by creating enemies so they can save us from them.

Its a country of 350 million individuals,you cannot force people to like or except everybody else,if a white does not like a black or a black does not like a white,it is irrelevant and does not make either one a racist,the only thing everybody needs to understand is we all have the same equal rights and are to be treated equally,you do not actually have to like somebody in order for them to have the same rights that you do,you just have to recognize that they do.

[Henry Whalley]

you do not actually have to like somebody in order for them to have the same rights that you do,you just have to recognize that they do.

Agreed, but try to tell that to the courts and prosecutors.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The point is not the act nor the race of the criminals but the very lenient punishment for a serious crime. If they had been black perpetrators they'd probably be in prison for 25 years.

Ain't that the truth.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Your intent with the post had little to do with rapists,the intent was to take a case and without providing or taking into account the details and circumstances surrounding the case you made it black and white.

No different then not allowing a flag equates to attacks on gays.

You are doing no different then mainstream media and using inflammatory thread titles in order to,well,inflame.

I have not been following the details on the riverboat thing but the headlines first came out as a bunch of white guys attacked a black riverboat worker.

It was not some American citizens attacked another American citizen,because in reality that is how it should be looked at.

There are people of all races that want to keep racism alive for a multitude of reasons,it is actually quite profitable when you look at the millions BLM generated.

We will never get rid of race issues,they have been there long before this country was even established and nobody is actually clear on how much of it actually occurs.

If I am white and you are black and I do not like you,it has little to do with racism but yet there will be someone,as we see,that will say because I am white and you are black I am racist because I do not like you.

African American and Africans are and have been tools from the beginning.

They were tools to generate income for the other African Americans that rounded them up and sold them to the slavers,so they cared little about each other at that time.

They were tools to generate income on the plantations,that were owned by both blacks and whites,and even after 600,000 Americans died fighting under the ruse of freeing the slaves the politicians started using them as a tool for a means to an end and still do to this day.

Like I posted before,you can buy an African slave on the market today and nobody gives a sh*t about that,so all of this stuff about slavery and the past is a load of crap and just a continuous facade in order to keep people in little groups so they can control them and generate votes and cash.

If you are going that route,they never actually left the plantation,they just got nicer digs.

They say 80% of African Americans in the U.S. are direct descendants of slaves in America,stands to reason,but the reality is in Africa they would not exist because there is no generational bloodlines left,if their ancestors that were rounded up by their fellow African brothers and sold to the slavers had not done so,80% of African Americans would not even exist.

Their ancestorÂ’s paid the ultimate price for the freedomÂ’s that they have today,had they not,they would not even exist.

A percentage of African Americans today embrace and support a political party that enslaved them and has done everything in their power generation after generation to keep them enslaved,maybe not in chains that you can physically see,but chains none the less.

So people say the whites need to stop being racist while on the same hand fully support the ones that push racism as a means to an end,that is why racism will always exist in this country by design.

If you want to confront the past in order to move into the future you have to be honest about it and look deep.

As far as I am personally concerned,as long as you can buy a African on the market today nobody including African Americans in this country could really care less about slavery and it is all about a payday.

The constitution guarantees every American citizen equal right,that is the law that is supposed to be followed above anything else.

You do not need to push for voting rights,segregation,blacks cannot drink from white water fountains,equal opportunity,free housing for the womenfolk but no father figures allowed,destroying communities.

Those and many more were all designed in order to cause divisions in society and stoke the flames of racism and actually create it where it dies not exist on peoples minds as a means to an end.

It does not matter what the good book says.

The constitution says EVERY American citizen is to be treated equally,it does not say give special privileges to one person over another because of their skin color or their origins or their religion.

The constitution does not see color it sees us all as one,if you want to end racism in America then you have to start with the ones promoting it and supporting it,with the full understanding that you will never end it because at the end of the day,power and money also does not see skin color unless it benefits them.

But like I said,if people were really all that bothered about the whole slavery thing,it would not exist today so motives behind that are questionable at best and an insult to the ones that were actually slaves and paid that price.

Above everything else the constitution is the one thing that binds us as one,it’s the one thing we should all follow as Americans but it is also the one thing that the same people that cry racism around every bend are doing their best to up end.

The religions that we personally follow, we do so because that constitution guarantees that we have the right to follow the religion of our choice,we do not have to like gays or approve of their actions,we do have to respect that under the constitution they have the same rights as everybody else,so if they want to boink a person of the same sex they have that right.

Until we spend less time grouping people or being manipulated into doing so and spend less time giving credit and supporting those who choose to keep us divided,we get what we get.

I do not like commies and socialists but if they are American citizens,I have to respect their rights under that constitution to exist in this country,which is why they always have,just as the Nazis,skin heads and every other group I do not personally approve of.

But that’s how they keep people divided,by creating enemies so they can save us from them.

Its a country of 350 million individuals,you cannot force people to like or except everybody else,if a white does not like a black or a black does not like a white,it is irrelevant and does not make either one a racist,the only thing everybody needs to understand is we all have the same equal rights and are to be treated equally,you do not actually have to like somebody in order for them to have the same rights that you do,you just have to recognize that they do.

No disrespect Richard, but does every response by you have to be a novel? Can't keep it short and to the point?

[Richard]

No disrespect Richard, but does every response by you have to be a novel? Can't keep it short and to the point?

Everybody is different,you may be able to covey thoughts while keeping it short and simple while I excel in other éreas that you may not.

If that was the case,there would be no need for movies,books,newspapers,speeches or even college because if people are that incapable of reading more then a tweet they would never be able to make it through 4 years of college.

I wish life was as simple as people want it to be,like in this thread black and white when it actually contains many complexities.

[Richard]

Agreed, but try to tell that to the courts and prosecutors.

I agree with that but honestly your actions have shown that you do not.

I posted long ago that it is the job of the police and prosecutors to follow established law and not use the system to create new laws or set precedent,which is what is happening,just making it up as they go along.

Its dangerous.

Examples would be supporting prosecution for illegal storage of a gun when there are no gun storage laws,in the school shooting.

You have several times showed your distaste for the Florida governor,he has now fired 2 elected state DAs because they were doing the exact same thing you oppose.

When somebody beats the crap out of a woman and they get immediately released and turn right around and go back and kill that woman,it may be time to re-evaluate what you are doing.

When a 13 yo carjacks and pistol whips a victim and is immediately released after arrest simply because he is a minor,it may be time to re-evaluate what you are doing.

You cannot show support for a system then turn around and get mad when you become a victim of the very system that you support.

It’s no different then what is playing out in the immigration fiasco,cities for years have been standing up on soap boxes while opposing immigration reform and declaring themselves sanctuary cities.

Until you dump 50,000 illegals on their doorstep then they declare an emergency and say they are overwhelmed.

It bothers me that cities like Detroit remain in the top tiers of crime and people have to live with a higher level of fear of becoming a victim of that crime but when people continue to show more support for the criminals then the victims,there is nothing I can do when you keep inviting it to your doorstep.

[K-slice]

How is this thread still open? It has nothing to do with Detroit, and the general race hustling title is designed to do little more than stir up the kind of useless vitriol that our current political system is based off of.