Speed Trap Cameras are coming

[Honky Tonk]

I have a saying, "I became one of tens of thousands of law-breakers again today; I drove the Lodge".

The speed limit is 55, the average speed is 65-70. What are speeding tickets now? $150? That could generated $1.5 million a day for every 10,000 speeders.

Smart phone routing maps, like that on my iPhone, report speed traps [politely called speed checks]. Speed cameras, if they come, would all be detectable and avoidable. So their main effect would be to cause traffic backups.

I have long heard that the speed limit means speed limit + 7 MPH over. What is your understanding?

Timely post. Yesterday I happened to take the Lodge for the first time in a long time. It wasn't too crowded and most everyone was doing 60- 65 but safely. Problems occurred with a handful that insisted on doing 70+ weaving in and out around the "slower" cars, missing some by what seemed like inches. If those people get busted, I have no sympathy for them. I have friends, usually iPhone users, that insist on driving with one hand, while holding and glaring at the phone, with the other. I seldom ride with them.
I also took 696 through the construction zone, where they're "fixing the damage roads". Surprisingly, drivers were courtesy, driving single file, letting mergers in and out. Of course, there were a handful of the usuals, hitting the gas, [or the electricity] and trying to cram in at the end of the merge lane. That caused slow downs and back-ups.

[JBMcB]

Traffic enforcement cameras increase compliance and improve road safety.

From what I've read, there hasn't been a definitive study showing that is the case. Even when it does increase compliance, it doesn't necessarily decrease the number or severity of accidents.

It has been proven that, in some cases, revenues from traffic tickets go up. It depends on the contract with the company that runs the cameras. Sometimes municipalities increase traffic ticket fines to cover the cost of the cameras, as the traffic camera company takes such a large cut.

[Henry Whalley]

From what I've read, there hasn't been a definitive study showing that is the case. Even when it does increase compliance, it doesn't necessarily decrease the number or severity of accidents.

It has been proven that, in some cases, revenues from traffic tickets go up. It depends on the contract with the company that runs the cameras. Sometimes municipalities increase traffic ticket fines to cover the cost of the cameras, as the traffic camera company takes such a large cut.

Source?

[Richard]

No, it's not. If the sign says 45, drive 45 or less. If it says 60, drive 60 or less. You can still drive. The end.

The thread is about speed cameras and if they are effective in the reduction of accidents or improving safety.

When the national 55 mph speed limit was implemented there was no reduction in speed related fatalities.

If you hit a construction worker,in a construction zone,60 mph is going to give the same results as 80 mph.

The issue of safety is more centered around construction zones,and when police pull somebody over on the freeway and everybody slams on the brakes thinking that officer is going to give them a ticket also along with rubberneckers.

Driving to fast for conditions is another ball game,all of the cameras in the world are not going to change that.

The only thing found in the last 80 years that reduces fatalities was the implementation of safety devices in automobiles.

How much does the $750 million recently given to the states in the name of improving safety plays a role,it’s free money and needs to be spent.

It was easy before,sorry it is not in the budget to implement,so Pete decided to give out the money to implement which is actually the federal government circumventing state legislatures will because as a majority most did not want them.

[JBMcB]

Source?

https://pirg.org/resources/caution-r...cameras-ahead/

Also, multiple debacles in Chicago

https://reason.com/2022/10/05/chicag...tion-scandals/

[Rocket]

The Lodge / Northwestern runs about 77 mph until you get down to the turns at Wyoming and Oakman, then it drops to 70.

The posted speeds are all illegal according to the MI State constitution.

It's a 70 mph road.

Artificially enforcing a lower speed is not only fraud, but it causes congestion. It's bad all the way around.

The correct thing for local and state gov't to do is spend less, not find more ways to steal.

[Richard]

Where I am at it is required that an officer reviews every traffic camera citation in order to verify that it is factual,but yet cases still get thrown out,so some feel there is a bit of rubber stamping involved.

The courts have always ruled that the law enforcement community has no duty or obligation to protect us.

So law enforcement really cannot be involved with enforcing traffic under the guise of public safety.

A court recently also ruled that even the Kansas 2 step is unconstitutional,the process of after a citation is issued and the officer goes to return to their vehicle,they then turn around and ask to search the car.

I agree that the privatization of law enforcement is stepping up,with the use of loitering drones,AI connected video and cell gps tracking cans what ever else they can implement without the involvement of actual LEO.

They really do not even need câmaras,new cars have GPS built in,so with integrated AI,they can use your own vehicle in order to rat you out .

Exceed the posted limits,run a stop sign or red light and your car sends the information to the data base which then automatically send you a citation in the mail or text or email.

In the Kansas ruling the judge said - There are enough laws on the books already that cover every thing you can think of,there is no reason to be creating new ones that test the boundaries of our constitutional rights.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida published an online guide "How to Pump the Brakes on Your Police Department's Use of Flock's Mass Surveillance License Plate Readers" in February, citing Flock as the first company to create a nationwide mass-surveillance system.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sheriffs-...090241473.html

[MikeM]

The thread is about speed cameras and if they are effective in the reduction of accidents or improving safety.

It was about speed cameras until you showed up and went off the rails, as usual, by changing the subject to drug traffickers and AI and China.

[Henry Whalley]

It was about speed cameras until you showed up and went off the rails, as usual, by changing the subject to drug traffickers and AI and China.

It would be funny were it not so sad.

[Sandhouse]

There are now 2 speed-camera bills in the Michigan legislature. The work-zone bill has passed the state House, with support from both parties. HB 4132 was the work of the construction unions, and both parties are eager to court union support.

The second bill is HB 4921, which would allow cameras in school zones. Its sole sponsor is Rep. Fitzgerald, a Democrat from Wyoming. Wyoming has a long history of running speed traps. Rep. Fitzgerald may be assumed to be a recipient of handouts from some of the camera firms convicted of bribery in OH, IN, IL, and TX.

The work-zone bill seems to allow drivers to ignore the mailed tickets until a process server delivers one in person, which will never happen. The Fitzgerald bill would automatically find you responsible for an infraction if you do not answer two first-class notices. I doubt this is constitutional, but camera firms have no shame or respect for the constitution. The bill would also require you to rat out whoever was driving your car, if it wasn't you, in order to save yourself from conviction and resulting incurance rate increases.

Both these bills are just a warm-up for the big money-makers: speed cameras generally, and red-light cameras that ticket everyone turning right on red without a total stop for some period of time.

Detroit has suffered enough from auto insurers, without arming them with automated ticket machines.

[mkd]

Both these bills are just a warm-up for the big money-makers: speed cameras generally, and red-light cameras that ticket everyone turning right on red without a total stop for some period of time.

Exactly. Everyone should write their state rep [[you can find him/her here) and state senator [[find him/her here).

[Wheels]

The sad thing about this is red light cameras within the city of Detroit would pay for themselves the first day.

[Henry Whalley]

The sad thing about this is red light cameras within the city of Detroit would pay for themselves the first day.

Seems about right. Last time I drove downtown not using the freeway, there were no police patrols north of the medical center, and then lots of police all the down to Comerica Park. Drivers weren't paying attention to traffic signals, rules, etc.

[Dan Wesson]

like shootin fish in a barrel...

https://news.yahoo.com/kansas-cops-w...180544342.html

[Dan Wesson]

Three times I can remember being pulled over and questioned by cops over nothing. All three times I was going to work.
All three times in northern Michigan along the M-27/ I-127 corridor. One cop called it a community out reach program.

They don't need no stinkin' cameras...


exceptin' for automating and enhancing the .gov revenue stream

[Henry Whalley]

Three times I can remember being pulled over and questioned by cops over nothing.

Maybe you look like a serial killer?

[Dan Wesson]

Maybe you look like a serial killer?

Profiled

Imagine that

[Jimaz]

Just now I heard a story on WUOM{NPR} stating there are license plate cameras at locations on I-94 and I-75. I didn't hear the whole story but I got the sense that they're experimental.

Google shows many stories about the subject from all over Michigan and apparently these cameras have been in operation for quite a while now. I had no idea this was happening. Justifications given are like Amber alerts and freeway shootings.

So it's not just speed traps. According to some stories, they record everyone's plates, with or without cause.

[Henry Whalley]

...So it's not just speed traps. According to some stories, they record everyone's plates, with or without cause.

And you will no longer be able to play your pud, use a cell phone, or watch TV while driving :[

[Jimaz]

And you will no longer be able to play your pud,....

Heh, a camera wouldn't stop me. It would provoke me.

But seriously, there are a lot of very good reasons cited for these cameras but scant mention of the downsides. I'd guess the worst case would be if the information were to fall into the wrong hands. It's not as if malicious people never try to acquire power in today's wacky world. <wink> <wink> <nudge> <nudge> Know what I mean?

It's only paranoia until they actually are out to get you.

[Jimaz]

Just now I heard a story on WUOM{NPR} stating there are license plate cameras at locations on I-94 and I-75. I didn't hear the whole story but I got the sense that they're experimental....

Update from a repeat of the story: The images can be preserved for only 30 days and they can't be used for search warrants. There was no mention of it being experimental.

[JBMcB]

I'd guess the worst case would be if the information were to fall into the wrong hands. It's not as if malicious people never try to acquire power in today's wacky world.

That's the main problem. These cameras are run by 3rd party companies contracted out by the state. In this arrangement, there is no such thing as an expectation of privacy. They can record absolutely anything, and the government can do anything they want with the information. Depending on the contract, the company can sell this information to other companies as well.

The ACLU used to be pretty vocal against this stuff, but I haven't heard a peep from them in the last year or so.

[Richard]

The argument of if you are not speeding you have nothing to worry about does not apply.

The speed cameras work by capturing every plate,it calculates the speed from when your vehicle first enters the eye of the camera lense and when it exits.

The question is if the images actually get destroyed after 30 days,nobody has actually been able to prove that they are.

Or what other agencies or entity’s had excess to them before the 30 days.

I mentioned the company that builds on a national scale a profile of every registered owner and tracks their movements based on captured camera,GPS and cell tower hits.

We live in a time where if it goes over the internet you have no right to privacy,everything connected to,even your ring camara is there for the world to see.

You already know if you insert an image into gaggle it will scour the internet to identify it,there are programs out there that are scanning by the millisecond for everything uploaded or sent through the internet.

The speed trap câmaras do not store your information on the camera,it is sent through the internet to their servers,the argument of it is secure does not work,people excess the most secure systems in the world all day long.

That’s the issue,you do not even have to break the law,somebody somewhere is compiling a personal profile on you right now.

Skip tracers are the ones that developed a program that when they upload your picture into the system,it automatically connects to every câmara that is connected to the internet,your cell phone,ring camara,security cameras,traffic camaras,

They can track you,in real time 24/7 ,with your help,everytime somebody anywhere connects a camara to the Internet it adds to the national and private data base.

Forever not just 30 days .

Even your Rumba,Alexa and smart TV is watching and or recording your conversations.

If you are a criminal or terrorist there are ways to cloak yourself in the digital world,but they are also illegal to own,but criminals and terrorists are not exactly poster children of legalities,so who exactly are we safe from?

[Gistok]

The posted speeds are all illegal according to the MI State constitution.

OK where did you find this in the Michigan Constitution?? Was that the 1835, 1850, 1908 or 1963 Constitution?

[Jimaz]

Here's how license plate readers help fight crime

You may have driven past a new crime-fighting tool without knowing it. Flock Safety is growing in popularity. The technology scans license plates and compares it to different state and national crime databases.

Now we're told data is retained for 90 days.