Wynter Smith Kidnapping and Murder

[jcole]

Because they want him to face the death penalty and Michigan won't do it

There is enough to put this guy away for life on the state level,going down the road of turning your crime problem over to the feds control,you are not going to like the results,because like you are here they can find a way to make everything a federal issue.

[Richard]

Apparently, all these self-proclaimed experts on the federal kidnapping statute can't comprehend the plain meaning of subsection [b]

18 U.S. Code § 1201 - Kidnapping

[b] With respect to subsection [a] [1], above, the failure to release the victim within twenty-four hours after he shall have been unlawfully seized, confined, inveigled, decoyed, kidnapped, abducted, or carried away shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

not self proclaimed expert,that’s why the link was posted.

You bolded it

shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

They found the girls remains by tracking his cell phone pings so they know very well the route was taken.

I also clearly posted based on available information at that time,now you can go back and read the other post where they are saying driving a car made with Foreign parts on an interstate qualifies as engaging in interstate or foreign commerce.

What’s is the point of going out of one’s way to just be silly?

[Richard]

Because they want him to face the death penalty and Michigan won't do it

I understand that part but it is questionable that the federal government will either

No further federal executions occurred from March 18, 2003, up to July 14, 2020, when they resumed under President Donald Trump, during which 13 death row inmates were executed in the last 6 months of his presidency. Since January 16, 2021 no further executions have been performed. On July 1, 2021, U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland placed a moratorium on all federal executions pending review of policy and procedures.^[2] There are 43 offenders remaining on federal death row.^[3]

On death row he will be sitting there in a protected status,odds are if he is put in general population after doing what he did,he will not last long anyways.

Child molestors and those who do heinous crimes against children have a target on their backs as soon as they go through the gates and people have nothing else to do 24/7 but to figure out a way.

I guess one could say on the federal level there is a chance that death penalty may be carried out but history shows it is not guaranteed.

I find it interesting with the states that oppose the death penalty but refer cases to the feds in order to get it,it’s like hiring a contract killer so you still look good without getting blood on your hands.

If one is willing to implement it they have to be willing to pull the trigger.

[Hypestyles]

horrible tragedy. beyond abhorrent.

[stasu1213]

When you look at all the other charges based on what he did to the mother and actions after that out of the other 2 counties along with the murder charges,he is already life in prison.

Why are they risking the federal charges with the possibility of being over turned when they had a slam dunk with state charges.

Either they are protecting the guy or they are using this case in order to test the boundaries of future cases which makes that little girl potentially a causality of justice.

So if you have a bag of weed or even one seed or joint,while driving your BMW on the interstate they can federally charge you with interstate trafficking.

This is scary almost as if they are looking for ways to turn local justice over to a federal authority so in the future unless they can federally charge you with something,no need for city jails which is already happening in other cities with no cash bond,rob a 7-11 and get caught they give you a ticket and not arrested by the time it is all over with in the near future.

They did that in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina,basically turned law enforcement over to the feds,so everybody was charged under federal guidelines,the local police were pretty much just mall cops.

People think justice is not good in the hood now,get pulled over for weed and it is federal because federally it is not recognized as legal.

There is enough to put this guy away for life on the state level,going down the road of turning your crime problem over to the feds control,you are not going to like the results,because like you are here they can find a way to make everything a federal issue.

Welcome to the federal police force where in the future the federal government will be tasked with policing and not local jurisdiction.

The cause and effect of justice reform.

All the more reason why I think that Michigan had gotten rid of it's cash bond system as Chicago had done this past January. This guy had too many run ins the police. Not Detroit police but police in Livingston County and other counties.

[canuck]

I understand that part but it is questionable that the federal government will either

No further federal executions occurred from March 18, 2003, up to July 14, 2020, when they resumed under President Donald Trump, during which 13 death row inmates were executed in the last 6 months of his presidency. Since January 16, 2021 no further executions have been performed. On July 1, 2021, U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland placed a moratorium on all federal executions pending review of policy and procedures.^[2] There are 43 offenders remaining on federal death row.^[3]

On death row he will be sitting there in a protected status,odds are if he is put in general population after doing what he did,he will not last long anyways.

Child molestors and those who do heinous crimes against children have a target on their backs as soon as they go through the gates and people have nothing else to do 24/7 but to figure out a way.

I guess one could say on the federal level there is a chance that death penalty may be carried out but history shows it is not guaranteed.

I find it interesting with the states that oppose the death penalty but refer cases to the feds in order to get it,it’s like hiring a contract killer so you still look good without getting blood on your hands.

If one is willing to implement it they have to be willing to pull the trigger.

Jesus H. Christ. I get so much enjoyment in reading your indictment of the justice system in your country. This is miles away from your high falutin’ claims that everybody is the same in the eyes of the law, constitutionally speaking. When you get messy situations like this one; a criminal type that everybody in their right mind would want to be stamped out, the subtleties of the legal system are bound to befuddle and depress.

[Henry Whalley]

...They found the girls remains by tracking his cell phone pings so they know very well the route was taken.

The point is that the burden of proof shifts to the defendant, who must rebut the presumption by proving he didn't leave the state. It's hard to prove a negative. If the feds thought he could rebut the claim, they wouldn't have charged him under 18 U.S. Code § 1201. If later they conclude that he's able to rebut, then the feds can drop the charges, but their actions to date suggest that they want to fry him, if possible.

Your claim that he's being protected is monumentally absurd as are most of your claims.

[Henry Whalley]

Jesus H. Christ. I get so much enjoyment in reading your indictment of the justice system in your country.

The law is a human institution, as Private Detective Loren Visser drawls in Blood Simple [1984].

[Henry Whalley]

...a criminal type that everybody in their right mind would want to be stamped out, the subtleties of the legal system are bound to befuddle and depress.

Agreed, but rather than criminal type, this guy seems to be a psychopath or sociopath. Criminologists make a distinction in that a mafia hitman is a criminal type but he's not insane -- he's just doing his job. Others such as this kidnapper, serial killers, and our former president are criminally insane. The differences show up on brain scans.

[Richard]

The point is that the burden of proof shifts to the defendant, who must rebut the presumption by proving he didn't leave the state. It's hard to prove a negative. If the feds thought he could rebut the claim, they wouldn't have charged him under 18 U.S. Code § 1201. If later they conclude that he's able to rebut, then the feds can drop the charges, but their actions to date suggest that they want to fry him, if possible.

Your claim that he's being protected is monumentally absurd as are most of your claims.

You are seriously sticking with the burden of proof falls in the defendant?

When was the last time you went to court in order to prove your guilt ?

My claim he was being protected ?

Considering his past history of being released continuously back into society it will only happen in two ways

He is being protected by the feds
He was released so many times because the citizens of Michigan felt it was okay to do that and threw their full support behind the soft on major crime stance.

Which makes her death the the price you pay for your social justice.

Personally I would prefer he was released so many times because he was a federally protected snitch,because I find it hard to believe people are that blind that they cannot see the results of what happens when you release people back into society that have proven time and time again they do not belong there,because that would mean the actions were approved of.

[Richard]

Jesus H. Christ. I get so much enjoyment in reading your indictment of the justice system in your country. This is miles away from your high falutin’ claims that everybody is the same in the eyes of the law, constitutionally speaking. When you get messy situations like this one; a criminal type that everybody in their right mind would want to be stamped out, the subtleties of the legal system are bound to befuddle and depress.

I understand the confusion when somebody is used to a system where the government can remove everybody’s rights at a moment’s notice but in this country,yes everybody has equal rights that are protected under the constitution.

Including those who we would not like to have them,but I would have to be willing to give up my constitutional rights before I could ask somebody else to give up theirs,no matter what they did.

We went down that road before as a country,witches were burned at the stake and African Americans hung from trees and worse because somebody said something and judgment was passed in the heat of the moment.

As a Canadian though who is not protected by the U.S. constitution and does not have to follow or understand it,you can go down to where he is being held and drag him out in the street and deliver instant justice.

The state of Michigan and residents already made the decision that they do not want anybody stamped out,by their hand anyways,I was not a part of that decision so nice try in putting it off on me.

So your claim that anybody in their right mind would want him to be stamped out has no bearing.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in all of that,if you oppose the death penalty in clear conscience it does not give you clear conscience if you contract it out to the feds.

That like saying,I only approve of the death penalty when it is not my hand that is going to be on the switch,it’s a final solution,either you approve of it or you do not otherwise it is just playing God when it is convenient.

51 % of Canadians want the death penalty reinstated but that leaves 49 % that do not,so by your reasoning 49% of Canadians are not in their right mind.

I am not going to debate you on that part.

[canuck]

I understand the confusion when somebody is used to a system where the government can remove everybody’s rights at a moment’s notice but in this country,yes everybody has equal rights that are protected under the constitution.

Including those who we would not like to have them,but I would have to be willing to give up my constitutional rights before I could ask somebody else to give up theirs,no matter what they did.

We went down that road before as a country,witches were burned at the stake and African Americans hung from trees and worse because somebody said something and judgment was passed in the heat of the moment.

As a Canadian though who is not protected by the U.S. constitution and does not have to follow or understand it,you can go down to where he is being held and drag him out in the street and deliver instant justice.

The state of Michigan and residents already made the decision that they do not want anybody stamped out,by their hand anyways,I was not a part of that decision so nice try in putting it off on me.

So your claim that anybody in their right mind would want him to be stamped out has no bearing.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in all of that,if you oppose the death penalty in clear conscience it does not give you clear conscience if you contract it out to the feds.

That like saying,I only approve of the death penalty when it is not my hand that is going to be on the switch,it’s a final solution,either you approve of it or you do not otherwise it is just playing God when it is convenient.

51 % of Canadians want the death penalty reinstated but that leaves 49 % that do not,so by your reasoning 49% of Canadians are not in their right mind.

I am not going to debate you on that part.

How are the mosquitoes this time of year in Tampa?

[canuck]

The law is a human institution, as Private Detective Loren Visser drawls in Blood Simple [1984].

Right. Remember when Richard pulled every play in his colouring book to protect the parents of the Crumbley kid? He claimed the prosecutor was playing politics in the case of parents who gave this disturbed killer child a gun for his birthday. He would throw the teaching staff and everyone else under the bus before he let those cowards get a tap on the wrist.

Because… you know; guns.

Guns and the constitution. Let me go down that rabbit hole again. Not.

Man made institution. Exactly. But there always has to be a little extra thrown in there to seal it, and that something is God. Lol

[Richard]

Right. Remember when Richard pulled every play in his colouring book to protect the parents of the Crumbley kid? He claimed the prosecutor was playing politics in the case of parents who gave this disturbed killer child a gun for his birthday. He would throw the teaching staff and everyone else under the bus before he let those cowards get a tap on the wrist.

Because… you know; guns.

Guns and the constitution. Let me go down that rabbit hole again. Not.

Man made institution. Exactly. But there always has to be a little extra thrown in there to seal it, and that something is God. Lol

lol,you are quoting somebody that said that it is the defendants responsibility to prove their guilt in a courtroom.

But that’s what peas do,they hang out in pods.

At the time Michigan was banning the use of capital punishment there was a case that helped seal the decision,a man from Detroit was tried and put to death in Windsor days before somebody else admitted to the crime.

That must have been a bunch of Canadians acting in their right mind.

So what are you going to do with the 49% of the Canadians and the entire state of Michigan residents,who are not in their right mind?

All you have to do is show where I have defended any accused in either case,without interjecting your personal twists and turns for what ever reason.

You cannot otherwise you would have ….

You are the one defending this guy because you are advocating it be on the federal level.

A case that is going to be brought in front of the courts based solely on untested prosecution methods and a case that is going to be a defense attorneys and the ACLU written all over it.

Which is actually not much different then the school shooting incident.

It is not defending anybody when I say the push to test the boundaries of the legal limits and make up new ways to incarcerate people on the fly,gives the authorities carta blanch to arrest and incarcerate at will and it effects everybody.

It takes things like stop n frisk and spins it into a whole new level,look at the physiological impact alone,you already have people posting on the Internet that it is the defendants responsibility to prove their guilt in court and not the prosecutions job to prove a crime has been committed,without making one up.

If you drive your car to a protest using an interstate highway,the protest becomes violent,you decide to leave,the federal authorities arrest everybody at the protest,you feel you did nothing wrong,but you did because you used the interstate to partake in a protest that included acts of violence which now falls under the category of domestic terrorism so you are guilty of a federal crime.

You are giving the authorities the power to arrest even though no crime has been committed,you do not have a problem with that just as long as you get the ability to stamp somebody out.

In the Michigan courts it is a slam dunk case for life without parole,but you are advocating to send it to the federal level so you can have the ability to stamp him out,what you are not taking into account,the means are untested which gives him an chance,no matter how small it is but a chance to receive a lighter sentence and walk out of prison at a future date.

I said it when I first started posting on the subject,I do not believe sending it to the federal level on untested grounds should be done,because if it goes wrong then that little girls death becomes meaningless and with this guys past history of being back out on the streets against all odds,to me anyways it is risky.

As humans we all are in tune with an eye for an eye,but the reality is,this is the justice system and it is filled with lawyers that like to find every loophole to get their client off and this is providing this guy with a bunch of loopholes into uncharted waters, at the federal level when it was unnecessary.

To us a little girl was senselessly and brutally kidnapped and killed,we can relate to that on a personal level because we have daughters and sisters and can feel the pain.

In the legal system and with the feds and the state of Michigan it’s just another case being used to push the boundaries of ways to incarcerate and imprison people using any means necessary and like I posted creating new means in order to prosecute.

It has zero to do with emotions,the little girls death becomes a platform in order to fuel an agenda that goes way beyond this case,you think it is rough in the hood now,the direction it is going and seemly with the support of the public they will not need a reason to throw you in the back of a car,they can make it up as they are driving you to the jail and hope it sticks.

All of this unrest and burning of cities in order to implement social justice has not changed anything,because they are showing you that they can find away around anything that you oppose and to their credit they are finding a way to do it with your full support.

That whole January 6th thing,the first thing the feds did was go to the cell phone companies and pulled all of the records of everybody’s cell phone that pinged in a 5 mile circle.

There were residents that lived around there and were hauled in for questioning by the feds because they took the trash out or walked the dog in that time frame and their cell phone pinged they were already presumed guilty when they were hauled in.

The claim that as long as I do not commit a crime I am okay does not even apply anymore,because the crime that you think you are not committing can easily be made into one.

I would be in the camp of it would save the taxpayers a whole lot of money to just spend less then $2 to settle it quick but like I said,I would prefer not to see this case be used to test the boundaries of the legal system when it gives that scumbag a chance of walking,no matter how minute that chance may be.

That is not seeking justice for that little girl,that is using what happened to her in order to advance an agenda and does zero to prevent it from happening to other little girls in the future.

Approve or disapprove of the death penalty the one undeniable fact is it has never served as a deterrent in crime,it’s a way to settle the eye for an eye urge.

[ABetterDetroit]

I would like to see some violent crime fighting legislation backed up by funding at the state level passed in Wynter’s name. Some kind of action to come out of this horrific crime. Prosecutors offices have been chronically underfunded in our state. Fund them. Tag all the violent offenses and fast track them so courts are not clogged and delayed causing violent offenders to be able plead down just to unclog the courts. Mandatory minimums. Something, anything.

We build prisons and pay police and prosecutors to protect women and children. Obviously it is not working good enough after this major malfunction of the system.

[Richard]

I would like to see some violent crime fighting legislation backed up by funding at the state level passed in Wynter’s name. Some kind of action to come out of this horrific crime. Prosecutors offices have been chronically underfunded in our state. Fund them. Tag all the violent offenses and fast track them so courts are not clogged and delayed causing violent offenders to be able plead down just to unclog the courts. Mandatory minimums. Something, anything.

We build prisons and pay police and prosecutors to protect women and children. Obviously it is not working good enough after this major malfunction of the system.

I agree 100% and what you posted is a reflection of how a majority in this country feels.

The problem is when it comes to crime historically there is never a happy medium reached.

The call goes out that police are to tough on crime,so instead of throttling it back some it goes to the other extreme until the population has had enough and demands a tough on crime stance.

Rinse and repeat.

When I was young there was a lot of things we did that did not cause harm to the pubic bit are now considered a crime.

The thing is they came up with this broken window theory,stop n frisk etc saying that it prevents future crime from happening,but it is not working.

They have tried stuff before,gang squads etc select groups whose only job is to go after the worst of the worst but then they get to the point where they start taking it to far where they are the hammer and everybody is the nail.

I am not sure we really need to takes it to those levels,when you look at this case,there was no way in the world that guy should have been on the streets,he was already entrenched in the system and the system knew full well what kind of person he was and the threat he posed to society.

There was so many red flags you could have wrapped the city with them.

They did not even have to go after him,he was already in their palm.

We do need to have solutions but they also need to be solutions that cannot be abused by those in power,that is the line we have to walk.

[Henry Whalley]

You are seriously sticking with the burden of proof falls in the defendant?

What Is a Rebuttable Presumption? A rebuttable presumption is a legal principle that presumes something to be true unless proven otherwise. The burden of proof lies with the party who wishes to rebut or disprove, the presumption.

Yes, the defendant must provide evidence that rebuts the rebuttable presumption. If and only if his evidence is convincing, then the federal kidnapping statute is shown not to apply, and the federal case is dismissed.

It's not complicated.

[Henry Whalley]

How are the mosquitoes this time of year in Tampa?

Their brains are larger than Richard's is the rebuttable presumption.

[Henry Whalley]

Some kind of action to come out of this horrific crime.

Agreed 100%

The death penalty has been unconstitutional in Michigan since the 1963 constitution took effect on 1 January 1964.

As a reform, I'd support an amendment allowing convicts serving a life sentence to opt for death by execution instead. Just to keep it simple, I'd favor turning these inmates over to the feds for execution.

It's the libertarian in me. And it might free up a few prison cells.

[jcole]

I vote for leaving his cell unlocked in whatever jail he lands in and giving out his name to the other inmates.

[stasu1213]

Most of the crimes this person had committed were against law enforcement in different counties also domestic violence. Now he graduated to kidnap and murder. What's this guy's history? Did he live in Lansing? If not how did he get to Lansing to visit the mother of the little girl since he didn't have a car to get there. He had to steal the mother's car to make his getaway. What time did the kidnapping actually happened as to correlate with the time the Amber alert was put out to everybody phones? This guy had done a lot in the time that he had while traveling from Lansing to St Clair Shores where he crashed into a police vehicle. Was a B.O.L.O. put out to highway patrol on all freeways immediately after it was reported to authorities that a little girl had been kidnapped. He traveled from Lansing to Detroit, I don't know at a high rate of speed or just over the speed limit. He took the time to drive to an alley or lot to strangle the baby and dumped her body in the alley and or field, then get back in the car to drive to drive through St Clar Shores where he crashed into a police vehicle. It's also being reported that he tried disarming a Eastpointe police officer around this time. How did the Eastpointe Police get involved in this?

[Richard]

What Is a Rebuttable Presumption? A rebuttable presumption is a legal principle that presumes something to be true unless proven otherwise. The burden of proof lies with the party who wishes to rebut or disprove, the presumption.

Yes, the defendant must provide evidence that rebuts the rebuttable presumption. If and only if his evidence is convincing, then the federal kidnapping statute is shown not to apply, and the federal case is dismissed.

It's not complicated.

Apparently it is for you

How come you only posted the part that supported your claim and not the whole thing?

. A rebuttable presumption is most often found in civil law, as opposed to criminal law.

In order for a rebuttable presumption to be created, there must be some sort of legal precedent or rule that establishes the presumption in the first place.

So the prosecutor cannot just make something up then force the defendant to prove them wrong,they have to have a legal basis to start with.

You are correct it is not that complicated.

[Richard]

Most of the crimes this person had committed were against law enforcement in different counties also domestic violence. Now he graduated to kidnap and murder. What's this guy's history? Did he live in Lansing? If not how did he get to Lansing to visit the mother of the little girl since he didn't have a car to get there. He had to steal the mother's car to make his getaway. What time did the kidnapping actually happened as to correlate with the time the Amber alert was put out to everybody phones? This guy had done a lot in the time that he had while traveling from Lansing to St Clair Shores where he crashed into a police vehicle. Was a B.O.L.O. put out to highway patrol on all freeways immediately after it was reported to authorities that a little girl had been kidnapped. He traveled from Lansing to Detroit, I don't know at a high rate of speed or just over the speed limit. He took the time to drive to an alley or lot to strangle the baby and dumped her body in the alley and or field, then get back in the car to drive to drive through St Clar Shores where he crashed into a police vehicle. It's also being reported that he tried disarming a Eastpointe police officer around this time. How did the Eastpointe Police get involved in this?

Macomb charges

Trice has been charged in Macomb County with third-degree fleeing and eluding police, attempt to disarm an officer, receiving and concealing a motor vehicle, assault with dangerous weapon, resisting and obstructing causing injury, and three counts of resisting and obstructing a police officer.

In Ingham County, charges include assault with intent to murder, two counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct, first-degree home invasion, unlawful imprisonment, aggravated domestic violence as a second offense, unlawful driving away of an automobile, and felonious assault.

That is over and above the federal charges.

So as it appears,he will be prosecuted three different times under 3 different agencies and most of those charges are in relation to the mother while the feds concentrate on the child.

[stasu1213]

Macomb charges

Trice has been charged in Macomb County with third-degree fleeing and eluding police, attempt to disarm an officer, receiving and concealing a motor vehicle, assault with dangerous weapon, resisting and obstructing causing injury, and three counts of resisting and obstructing a police officer.

In Ingham County, charges include assault with intent to murder, two counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct, first-degree home invasion, unlawful imprisonment, aggravated domestic violence as a second offense, unlawful driving away of an automobile, and felonious assault.

That is over and above the federal charges.

So as it appears,he will be prosecuted three different times under 3 different agencies and most of those charges are in relation to the mother while the feds concentrate on the child.

What will Wayne County charge him with

[jcole]

I would assume that if the Feds don't get the murder charges, Wayne County will. The actual Kidnapping happened in Ingham County, so if the feds can't charge with that, Ingham will. Actually, no one knows where he killed her at. Could have been anywhere between Ingham and Wayne.

What will Wayne County charge him with