Wynter Smith Kidnapping and Murder

[Richard]

What will Wayne County charge him with

what jcole posted

The federal charges, filed in the U.S. District Court for Western Michigan, include kidnapping resulting in death and kidnapping a minor victim. He faces a life sentence or the death penalty if convicted of the kidnapping resulting in death charge.

A preliminary hearing on the Lansing charges, which will determine if there's enough evidence for him to stand trial, is scheduled for later this month.

Until they find out at what point in time she was strangled and where they cannot put the murder charges.

The only thing so far was the ST Clair officer found her blood in the car - free press has a map of his route based off of cell phone pings.

But even if they find blood in the car it’s just kinda circumstantial at this point because it could be argued that she was in the vehicle before and cut her finger.

But they are pretty adept at getting to the bottom of things.

He had a previous assault charge from a few weeks/months back where he hit his son with a pink cell phone cord,which it was a pink cell phone cord used to strangle the little girl with.

The son is biological,the little girl was not.

He was on probation already when he got the assault charge,but the judge chose to let him off after attending a parenting class.

There is a common thread with these diversion programs,they seem to go only two ways,either they work or they end up like this.

Considering the guys history,they really should have violated him.

It’s one thing to discipline your child but when you whack them across the face with a cell phone cable,there are some serious anger management issues going on and the judge should have recognized that.

The system failed this little girl just as much as that guy.

[Henry Whalley]

A rebuttable presumption is most often found in civil law, as opposed to criminal law.

Unsurpringly, you don't know the meaning of the phrase "most often" because your brain's mosquito-sized.

[Henry Whalley]

How come you only posted the part that supported your claim and not the whole thing?

Because brevity is the soul of wit. While bloviating idiocy is the soul of Richard.

[Henry Whalley]

...or rule that establishes the presumption in the first place.

The rule is in 18 U.S. Code § 1201 [b].

Are you really that stupid? Or just showing off for all posterity to see?

[Henry Whalley]

Remember when Richard pulled every play in his colouring book to protect the parents of the Crumbley kid?

Thanks for nothing. I was trying to forget

[Henry Whalley]

I vote for leaving his cell unlocked in whatever jail he lands in and giving out his name to the other inmates.

Ditto, it'll clear at least one prison cell.

[Richard]

The rule is in 18 U.S. Code § 1201 [b].

Are you really that stupid? Or just showing off for all posterity to see?

You post a link that you clearly did not read or understand while calling somebody else stupid

[[b) With respect to subsection [[a)[[1), above, the failure to release the victim within twenty-four hours after he shall have been unlawfully seized, confined, inveigled, decoyed, kidnapped, abducted, or carried away shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported to interstate or foreign commerce.

I am thinking the only reason they are using the interstate aspect is to get him to admit at what point in time he killed her,because if they cannot determine that then they cannot move forward with charges in the federal level.

Just because they say they are charging him,it does not mean it will stick moving forward.

They or you or I do not know when he killed her or where and if he did before he got on the interstate or even if he got on the interstate to begin with .

The act of kidnapping is one charge everything else that comes after her death is going to be the sticking point,it has been turned over to the feds and at this point they have leveled charges but by their own admittance,they have not completed the investigation.

So they do not really know yet and the possibility still remains that they can come to the conclusion that everything outside of the actual kidnapping is not in their realm.

What you are presenting as your argument has little to do with their case and the laws you are referring to was to combat human trafficking and has not been used in this type of case before so it leaves the door open.

That was why I referred to the case with the governor that people got bent out of shape over.

If they thought it was a slam dunk then the FBI would have used the same basis with a conspiracy to commit kidnapping charge against those who conspired to kidnap the governor.

Because they traveled the interstate in order to get to Michigan.

Which would have given them 15 years,but they got 4 because they figured it was to risky to apply that law and they took what they could get,it did not work then or they were not comfortable enough to use it because it is a risky thing outside of a human trafficking case.

You are arguing over some that has little relavance,the only reason they stuck the interstate transport part in was so the feds could pick it up and potentially give the death penalty.

The state of Michigan did not need the feds in order to get a life without parole sentence they needed the feds for the death penalty.

And I stand by what I posted,there is a risk factor involved when you test a new form of judgment or means to direct its path because the outcome is untested.

If you want him dead,Michigan can still give a life without parole and put him in with general population,less risk factor then trying something new because if that does not work,he could very well end up seeing the light of day again the way everything else has been going.

You are forgetting how everybody was up in arms over GITMO,and those were people that would not think twice about kidnapping a child and strapping a bomb on them and sending them into a public place where 100s would be killed.

Society is changing in case you have not noticed,even in France a Muslim went to the park and stabbed 5 babies to death as they lay in their cradles so they would not grow up to be Christians and they are having a debate on whether that animal deserto die.

If we were not living in a time where hard core criminals are coddled,this guy would not even had been on the streets.

Thats why I say why risk it,Michigan has enough laws on the books to deal with this guy without pushing the boundaries in order to create more.

If he kidnapped her and killed her before he got on the interstate,if he even got on the interstate then he completed the crime and just used the interstate as a means to transport the remains.

Hense the charge of kidnapping that resulted in death


[[b)With respect to subsection [[a)[[1), above, the failure to release the victim within twenty-four hours after he shall have been unlawfully seized, confined, inveigled, decoyed, kidnapped, abducted, or carried away shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, the fact that the presumption under this section has not yet taken effect does not preclude a Federal investigation of a possible violation of this section before the 24-hour period has ended.

I am not questioning the charges brought by the FBI or even the search for the death penalty as a reason to turn over jurisdiction to them in the first case.

I am questioning the methods used to give them jurisdiction in the first place and if that fails does not the original kidnapping resulting in death change no longer apply for prosecution by the state of Michigan under the double jeopardy laws which after he completes sentence for everything else he is released.

It is not a crazy or stupid approach because all across the country people serving sentence for this same stuff are being released back out into the streets years before having to serve their sentence even if they got life.

Even if the feds do win their case,and gives him the death penalty,he will be sitting on death row for 30 - 40 years anyways and even at that it is debatable if that sentence will be carried out anyways.

The irony of that is on death row he will be protected from any harm so the only way it will happen and if it will happen is if the feds are the ones who pull the switch.

So it is taking a chance when you will end up with the same results,feds or state it does not matter.

Not that it matters anyways as this is just a discussion,it will play out how it does and the best one can hope for is there is a throw away the key part followed by a burial.

Personally,I think he should be sent to GITMO,so he can experience the same pain and suffering that little girl did,but for months because the death penalty is quick,easy and painless.

The saddest part is at one time that little girl probably looked up to him as a father figure.

[Richard]

21 minute video of St Clair police Chase and apprehension.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k86iid5aiew&t=147s

Mr tough guy when it comes to little girls,screams like a little bitch when he gets tased.

Kudos to St Clair PD on handling it and Local 4 for posting it.

[Henry Whalley]

You post...

tldr

[JBMcB]

[b] With respect to subsection [a] [1], above, the failure to release the victim within twenty-four hours after he shall have been unlawfully seized, confined, inveigled, decoyed, kidnapped, abducted, or carried away shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person has been transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

I want this guy to go away forever, but this is fairly sleazy. Any halfway decent lawyer will get this charge thrown out pretty quick. An excellent lawyer would get this case removed to state court as well, as only one of the charges has federal jurisdiction.

I think the hail mary here is that, in federal court, if you are found guilty of one of the bundled charges, you can be charged as though you were guilty of *all* of the bundled charges.

If you are for criminal justice reform, you would be against *all* of this nonsense. The federal charging statute is insane. The idea that a kidnapping is presumed to be interstate based *solely* on time is also insane.

Again, to be clear, I am for two things - a criminal justice system that is fair and makes sense, *and* for this guy to go away forever. Unfortunately, as is true for most cases, to make the first thing true the second thing is going to be harder.

[Henry Whalley]

I want this guy to go away forever, but this is fairly sleazy. Any halfway decent lawyer will get this charge thrown out pretty quick. An excellent lawyer would get this case removed to state court as well, as only one of the charges has federal jurisdiction...

Agreed, but the Lindbergh Law dates back to 1932 when cell phone towers, etc., didn't exist. Also, this murderer may not be able to retain a good lawyer. It'll require a chunk of change to subpoena records required to rebut the presumption. The prosecution isn't going to subpoena those records because the presumption suffices for its purposes. Lastly, if there is a rebuttal but the magistrate rejects it, then the defendant would be forced to go to appellate court, assuming that the magistrate's decision even is appealable. Also, appeals cost money a lot of money.

P.S. I surmise that the judge decides whether it's a federal death-penalty case. At this early stage, there's not a jury methinks.

[Richard]

They found the little girl by his cell phone pings,he never got on an interstate,they do not need to subpoena anything,because they already have his exact path of travel from start to finish.

The police chase shows his path up a 4 lane street after he did a circle in the city of Detroit,St Clair PD got him on a 4 lane after he left the city of Detroit. Does not show he traveled on the interstate.

A lawyer may take the case pro-bono because it will bring them notoriety that advertising cannot buy.

A majority of these high profile cases that you see,those lawyers do not charge for their services,mob lawyers etc.

I do not know,if you kidnap somebody and kill them,dump the body in under 24 hours,have you not released them.

Excludes if they are your biological children,so he has one biological child with the woman and this little girl was not but they could post an argument that they spent time together and in his mind he viewed that little girl as his child as he did have a biological child with her mother and they had at one time lived together as a family.

His son,that poor little boys life is already screwed before he got a chance also,it’s a multi faceted tragedy all around.

They started cell phone pinging him most likely as soon as the call came in after he fled the scene. The BOLO on the white impala went out at the same time.

If they determined a juvenile is at serious risk of harm or to locate a felon that poses serious risk to life,they do not need a warrant for cell phone pings.

Every thing else falls under search and seizure laws.

Kidnapping that resulted in death verses a kidnapping charge combined with a murder charge.

[If convicted of the Kidnapping Resulting in Death charge, the statutory mandatory minimum is life in prison. This offense is also death penalty eligible. If convicted of Kidnapping a Minor, the statutory mandatory minimum is 20 years in prison with a maximum possible sentence of life in prison.]

Death penalty eligible - not guaranteed

[stasu1213]

We're the cell phone pings activated as soon as the BOLO alert was put out to authorities in all jurisdiction? Were his movements being traced in real time? If so how was he able to make a stop to dump the baby's body in an alley in Detroit and it's not being tracked and notified to a nearby Detroit police cruiser? Clearly this monster murdered the little girl and dumped her body in the alley. He's a psychopath sociopath and sadistic murderer all in one

[Richard]

They have not said exactly when the ping trace first started.

Officer calls supervisor,supervisor calls cell phone company the ping trace starts.

Pings are in real time and accurate not like other methods where they put you in a general erea,but if it pings,they know he is at that exact location but usually by the time they get there he is already gone.

A ping is different then an active cell phone trace,which requires a warrant and time.

A ping is logged every time your cell phone connects to a cell tower,as you move along the towers hand off to each other.

As soon as the cell phone company relays the ping location they are tracking him but always one step behind.

Thats probably how St Clair knew he was going to be on that road,but the officer in the video said - white impala BOLO,he was driving petty fast so it would have been hard to get in front of him and wait.

He came into the city of Detroit and made a circle back out and was going through St Clair shores,but with the pings they would have known every time he stopped in the city of Detroit and the address.

You guys should have received the kidnapping alert on your cell phones?

The BOLO was most likely put out state wide because it was a kidnapping to every agency,but all of that takes crucial moments to implement and establish.

There is a phone conversation between him and another guy,a relative or something where he says he messed up and is an animal and the other person said not to let that witch get to him that’s when he said he messed up.

But did not specify anything really incriminating.

But the feds put out a notice saying if anybody has any details or is hiding any information that would protect him to come forward.

It kinda makes one wonder why they would say that ?

Its early yet and the investigation is still going on,his arraignment is July 20th? No bond and the other agencies are adding the 4th offender heightened charge,I guess it is not 3 strikes you are out - it’s 3-4-5-6-7-8

You can tell by his actions when he was arrested,he is well versed at being a PÓS.

[Henry Whalley]

...they do not need to subpoena anything, because they already have his exact path of travel from start to finish.

Agreed, the federal prosecutor has no need to subpoena anything, but the defendant must subpoena rebuttal evidence. I doubt he'll find a good pro bono defense attorney. There's no glory in losing a case like this. But anything's possible.

[Richard]

Agreed, the federal prosecutor has no need to subpoena anything, but the defendant must subpoena rebuttal evidence. I doubt he'll find a good pro bono defense attorney. There's no glory in losing a case like this. But anything's possible.

The anything’s possible part is the scary part because all across the country we are seeing the worst of the worst being released back into society.

Even the federal government is conflicted on the death penalty and how to carry it out and if.

Look at one of Mansons followers,when they put her away it was under every intention of her spending her life in prison,but yet they released her.

Incarceration seems to be more based on societal change then crime,people serving prison time for small amounts of weed but yet it’s now legal in a lot of states.

But this guy sent a message to the court system 4 times that he was not a part of society.

I played the game,got busted and was given a second chance while knowing full well if I abused that I would be gone for a very long time,so I walked away.

But for some people it’s the only thing they know and the constant rotation of in and out of prison is like a 9-5 job to them but for the ones that have a history of violence against innocent people that are just living their lives,I kinda think we need to look a little harder at how they are dealt with.

The threat of incarceration,the threat of the death penalty does not seem to be a deterrent.

Honduras has been literally rounding up everybody that even smells like a criminal and throwing them in prison,thousands.

Violent crime has decreased but we have a different system when it comes to the ability to do that.

It is an issue that has been going on for centuries though.

Cases like this though are especially heinous but life in prison or the death penalty did not deter him.

[Henry Whalley]

At a federal court hearing Tuesday morning in Grand Rapids, Magistrate Judge Ray Kent... decided the precedent established in the Sixth Circuit allowed for federal jurisdiction, “although I don’t necessarily agree with it.”

Trice has a court-appointed attorney.

[Richard]

The state AG has also combined all the other charges from the crimes that were committed in the different cities into one case for prosecution.

To me this whole thing is playing out really strange,but I guess we will find out but she is not exactly a tough on crime kinda girl.

Updated maps of his route here : Warning for those who are traumatized by multiple paragraphs and scrolling - there are pictures that may ease the pain of even seeing paragraphs but you still have to scroll to the middle of the article in order to view.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ce-his-arrest/

Interesting in all of this,they keep talking about AGs responsibility for closure for the families and it was given to the feds because there is the chance of the death penalty.

But yet Nasser gets stabbed while in fed lock up in Florida and those families were not happy because they wanted him to suffer in prison for life and not see a quick death.

[jcole]

Glad that Nessel is taking over all the charges; allows all the state's resources to be used to get this guy.

[GPCharles]

Possible Publicity for the AG - Nessel into the fray!

[jcole]

Well, it makes more sense than piecemealing the charges across 4 or 5 counties.

Possible Publicity for the AG - Nessel into the fray!

[Jimaz]

Glad that Nessel is taking over all the charges....

You can bet if she didn't she'd be accused of that.

[Richard]

Well, it makes more sense than piecemealing the charges across 4 or 5 counties.

Yes and no - If she drops the ball and somebody finds a technicality,the entire case goes out the window and he walks.

Cannot come back and try it again under double jeopardy.

If 4 jurisdictions charge separate odds are at least one can find a reason to put him away.

It’s risky.

[jcole]

One issue is that they don't know where he killed Wynter; which city or county. So they can't really charge him with murder in any county. If the federal charge falls through, Nessel can charge him with murder in the State of Michigan.

[Richard]

I think that’s why the feds have it as Kidnapping resulting in death.

He could say - I was taking her to a relatives because of the situation I created with her mom,she would not stop screaming so I let her out of the car - don’t know what happened to her after that.

Other then they know every stop he made and for how long,they still have to directly tie him to the actual crime to call it a murder.

But it looks like they are trying to cover all bases and use multiple avenues to get the guy one way or another.

On the financial side it is understandable when it comes to the individual cities,it’s going to be a few million to prosecute the guy,not that I would ever advocate for it but due to inflation the cost of lead has gone up like every thing else,but it would still be less then $2.

When somebody does that to a small child,they are past any stage of humanity.