ObamaCare

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I've been in two hospitals in Europe,"

Did you stay in a Holiday Inn express? Was there a state of the system financial analysis on your documents you received from your two hospital stays? Sorry, but "I've been in two hospitals in Europe," is purely anecdotal and is really meaningless. Keep in mind, they knowing you were a US citizen probably went out of their way to accommodate you. Not necessarily the case, but a realistic consideration.

[elganned]

According to this article, "The Senate Finance Committee health bill released last week controls doctors by cutting their pay if they give older patients more care than the government deems appropriate. Section 3003[[b) [[p. 683) punishes doctors who land in the 90th percentile or above on what they provide for seniors on Medicare by withholding 5 percent of their compensation."

"President Obama and his budget director, Peter Orszag, have told seniors not to worry, claiming that Medicare spending could be cut by as much as 30 percent without doing harm. They cite the Dartmouth Atlas of Healthcare 2008, which tries to prove patients who get less care -- fewer hospital days, doctors' visits and imaging tests -- have the same medical "outcomes" as patients who get more care."

The Dartmouth Atlas probably meant that everyone dies eventually. Who could argue with that? This is all good news because now maybe we can have free health care [[less is more) without adding to the deficit. Maybe even our insurance rates can come down because insurance companies won't have to pay out as much for old people who can be just as well without so much medical care.

Death panels. It's the only affordable solution.

[Lorax]

Sorry, but "I've been in two hospitals in Europe," is purely anecdotal and is really meaningless.

Meaningless? Anectdotal?

LOL!!!

I do have relations as well as friends who are European, believe it or not, and their experiences are the same when they have availed themselves of European health care.

No mysteries here, America doesn't have the bill of fare when it comes to health care, so don't assume.

[ccbatson]

Liberals figuratively going down with the ship on this debate...as time goes on, the socialised medicine systems are declining providing ever increasing evidence of the faults of such a system, so, those arguing that the care is good are progressively facing mounting and worsening evidence against their position...it is very entertaining to watch.

[rb336]

Gee, Bats, in the 9 months Obama has been in the white house, and the years since you joinedthis board, you have YET to provide even an iota of data to back you up factually, while the other side has provided many links, including peer-reviewed, to support theirs

hmmm....deja vu on virtually every other topic

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "in the 9 months Obama has been in the white house"

Yes, such an oh so short time. Did he or anyone in his administration have any sort of plan in place for when they took office? You know, in the spirit of "hit the ground running"? Talk about an ill-prepared and confused attack on the issues. The last thing we needed is what we're seeing.

[Detroitej72]

Conservatives and Big Insurance are terrified that the public will hear the truth about how many European Countries are thriving with single payer health care.

[Detroitej72]

Did he or anyone in his administration have any sort of plan in place for when they took office? You know, in the spirit of "hit the ground running"? Talk about an ill-prepared and confused attack on the issues. The last thing we needed is what we're seeing.

The problem is the conservatives in both the Democratic and Republican parties have been holding up the process because they are bought by Big Insurance.

[rb336]

Quote: "in the 9 months Obama has been in the white house"

Yes, such an oh so short time. Did he or anyone in his administration have any sort of plan in place for when they took office? You know, in the spirit of "hit the ground running"? Talk about an ill-prepared and confused attack on the issues. The last thing we needed is what we're seeing.

yes, they did hit the ground running. weren't you paying attention?

[oladub]

Well...somebody has to pay for it. I'm sure the 2.5% tax increase of medical equipment won't be passed on to customers.

On the 12th day of Christmas, 1,990 pages of Obamacare gave to me...

Employer Mandate Excise Tax [[Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium [[65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Small employers [[measured by payroll size) have smaller payroll tax rates of 0 percent [[<$500,000), 2 percent [[$500,000-$585,000), 4 percent [[$585,000-$670,000), and 6 percent [[$670,000-$750,000).

Individual Mandate Surtax [[Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income [[MAGI) or the average premium. MAGI adds back in the foreign earned income exclusion and municipal bond interest.

Medicine Cabinet Tax [[Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts [[HSAs), flexible spending accounts [[FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements [[HRAs). Insulin excepted.

Cap on FSAs [[Page 325): FSAs would face an annual cap of $2500 [[currently uncapped).

Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions [[Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent [[current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts [[e.g. IRAs, 401[[k)s, 529 plans, etc.)

Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D [[Page 327): This would further erode private sector participation in delivery of Medicare services.

Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses [[Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 [[$1 million married filing jointly). MAGI adds back in the itemized deduction for margin loan interest. This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent—a new effective top rate.

Excise Tax on Medical Devices [[Page 339): Imposes a new excise tax on medical device manufacturers equal to 2.5 percent of the wholesale price. It excludes retail sales and unspecified medical devices sold to the general public.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting [[Page 344): Requires that 1099-MISC forms be issued to corporations as well as persons for trade or business payments. Current law limits to just persons for small business compliance complexity reasons. Also expands reporting to exchanges of property.

Delay in Worldwide Allocation of Interest [[Page 345): Delays for nine years the worldwide allocation of interest, a corporate tax relief provision from the American Jobs Creation Act

Limitation on Tax Treaty Benefits for Certain Payments [[Page 346): Increases taxes on U.S. employers with overseas operations looking to avoid double taxation of earnings.

Codification of the “Economic Substance Doctrine� [[Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.

Application of “More Likely Than Not� Rule [[Page 357): Publicly-traded partnerships and corporations with annual gross receipts in excess of $100 million have raised standards on penalties. If there is a tax underpayment by these taxpayers, they must be able to prove that the estimated tax paid would have more likely than not been sufficient to cover final tax liability.

http://www.atr.org/breaking-comprehe...democrat-a4113#

[ccbatson]

1900 pages, everything formerly removed under pressure from the public is restored or worse against the will of the people....If they pass this thing, they will pay a heavy price politically.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "yes, they did hit the ground running. weren't you paying attention?"

Old management mantra: "Don't confuse activity with results"

[ccbatson]

Even the liberals see the deception here, they are just happy about it. That is the error, the administration seems to think that they are fooling the public who happen to oppose this action...they will not, and the impact of this monstrous bill will not be forgotten when it comes time to vote in 2010 and 2012.

[oladub]

Ed Schultz interviews Dennis Kucinich about Obamacare. They are not happy campers. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/...48331#33556889
9min43sec

[Sstashmoo]

Another one of my "doom and gloom" predictions that is about to manifest. This bill would allow 25% increases in existing premiums. Anyone that thinks with Government forcing people to buy insurance from corporations with seedy business practices and the price is going to drop is dreaming. Just as it did with automobile insurance. It may have dropped for a few, for the majority there was an increase.

[ccbatson]

Coming and going...higher premiums on one side, taxes, fines, penalties, stifling industry and employment on the other...nobody wins and everyone loses.

[elganned]

Everyone loses except for the insurance industry, you mean.

[ghettopalmetto]

1900 pages, everything formerly removed under pressure from the public is restored or worse against the will of the people....If they pass this thing, they will pay a heavy price politically.

For some reason, you must believe that the vast majority of Americans subscribe to your anarchic Randian view of the universe. Until you reconcile that belief with the truth, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...elosi-bill.php

It certainly wasn't the "flash mob" organizers were hoping for, but a small but determined group of Tea Party Patriots gathered on the Capitol Lawn this morning to protest the announcement of a final House health care reform bill.

TPMDC counted about 10 Tea Partiers holding signs denouncing a "government takeover" of health care and looking with disdain as House Democrats gathered on the Capitol Steps. They stood in a larger group of protesters from other groups, mostly focused on abortion rights.

[Sstashmoo]

I think the biggest issue with the acceptance among many is the fact that people simply don't trust the government anymore. Ironically, the same group that is against the government on the situation in the Middle East, are the strongest advocates, for the very same government to take care of their healthcare. We may have a new guy in there, but it's business as usual. It isn't Demo or Repub anymore, it's an obvious driving force within the halls to screw over the people of this country, to serve corporate and other interests, in direct conflict with the reasons each of them were elected.

The bottom line is the booby bars have been humming around DC with insurance lobbyists and politicians [[figuratively). Insurance companies are the most greedy, thoughtless, inhumane organizations on the planet. The government is going to turn them loose on us, with mandatory participation, or else. People need to think before they give these folks a blank check on their future well-being. We need some form assistance for those without medical care, but the f'ing creep insurance companies need to be taken out of the equation. Let them die. It won't bother me. I'll have just as much regard for them as the rest of our nation has for our domestic automobile industry.

[Lorax]

Refreshing to see so many liberals taking the administration to task on a multitude of issues.

Democracy is not a spectator sport, as it was under the Tush Administration.

We demand results for our votes, and only we can make them keep their campaign promises, so keep watching Ed, Keith, and Rachel, and you'll see how liberals don't drink the KoolAid, but demand results.

[ccbatson]

Don't trust them? You mean rushing a 1990 page socialist takeover of 1/6th of our economy doesn't engender trust?

[Lorax]

It's online to read, Sparky.

Where do you get this stuff?

Try reading all 1900 pages while you can, the vote won't be until later in the year, next month most likely.

If you don't like it, then vote for Saracuda Palin, the bobbleheaded bimbo from Wasilla, I'm sure she'd have a plan more in keeping with fascist corporate welfare.

[ccbatson]

Didn't get the memo? Pelosi is pushing for a vote tomorrow or Saturday...1 week after the release.

It isn't a matter of 1 plan or another right now. It is a matter of stopping this socialist monstrosity. Real solutions will include rolling back government over involvement [[ie Medicare/caid/SCHIP) and unfettering the free market.

[rb336]

keep on spewing the same discreditted crap, Bats. you have no argument because you have no actual ideas, just a bankrupt ideology

[Lorax]

Didn't get the memo? Pelosi is pushing for a vote tomorrow or Saturday...1 week after the release.

It isn't a matter of 1 plan or another right now. It is a matter of stopping this socialist monstrosity. Real solutions will include rolling back government over involvement [[ie Medicare/caid/SCHIP) and unfettering the free market.

What?

You can't read something in a week? There will be a final vote around Christmas, so give it a rest, grab a hot chocolate, and enjoy the reading.