ObamaCare

[ccbatson]

That paradigm would have been even worse...the Doctor shortage and prospects for future Physicians would have rapidly gone in the tank.

[elganned]

How so? You think nobody would want to work as a doctor for, say, $100K per?

Well, I know you would hope so, but I doubt it. I don't think there would be any shortage of applicants. Medical schools would have to step up and admit more students, however.

Which if the government opened a few medical schools with more reasonable admission standards, that would provide some competition for them. And since more students usually translates to lower cost, the current medical schools would be at a price disadvantage, and would lower their tuition, drawing even more applicants into the mix..ain't the Invisible Hand a wonderful thing--when applied properly?

First, health care reform. Next up, education reform...

[ccbatson]

Physician's assistants make that with 6 years of school after high school, low debt burden, lower work hours, lower liability and responsibility. Do I think that some Physicians would accept that? very very few.

Russian immigrants now Physicians in the US will tell you how that works.

[Papasito]

Well, if it's cutting into their fund for the new Rolls Royce, maybe they should take only paying patients, and those without money can use the public option.

Keep in mind that some of these "evil rich doctors" are Democrats.

[rb336]

That paradigm would have been even worse...the Doctor shortage and prospects for future Physicians would have rapidly gone in the tank.

the doctor shortage is entirely manufactured by the AMA in collusion with US medical schools

[elganned]

Physician's assistants make that with 6 years of school after high school, low debt burden, lower work hours, lower liability and responsibility. Do I think that some Physicians would accept that? very very few.

Russian immigrants now Physicians in the US will tell you how that works.

*shrug* so make it $300K. I pulled the number out of my ass.

Physician's assistants make $100K? How come we're not awash in them? Sounds like easier money; you'd think there'd be a whole crap-ton of them out there. Or maybe there are, and the schools have decided to artificially keep the numbers low--wouldn't want to "cheapen" the brand, you know.

As for asking Russian immigrants, why go to that bother? Why not ask American doctors at Mayo and Cleveland Clinics how that's working out for them? Last I heard, they didn't have to beg doctors to come work for them.

[ccbatson]

It would be nice if one could just "make it 300K", reality doesn't work that way. The Doc's at the lower end are the ones at highest risk and the bulk of Docs fall in the 150K range.

[ccbatson]

Regarding Mayo...the department heads and grant recipient researchers are content. Lower end [[young) practitioners use it as a revolving door to the private world...to a lesser extent the same is true at UofM.

[elganned]

Since we are discussing all docs being salaried, there would be no "private world" for them to "revolve" to, so your argument falls outside the scope of the issue.

[Detroitej72]

Physician's assistants make $100K? How come we're not awash in them? Sounds like easier money; you'd think there'd be a whole crap-ton of them out there. Or maybe there are, and the schools have decided to artificially keep the numbers low--wouldn't want to "cheapen" the brand, you know.

If this is true, it wouldn't be the first time in history those in power controlled the supply to drive up the costs.

[elganned]

The AMA: The DeBeers of Medicine.

[ccbatson]

There are a great many Physician extenders entering the field, however, they rightfully must be linked to Physicians which limits the opportunities.

[elganned]

There are a great many Physician extenders entering the field, however, they rightfully must be linked to Physicians which limits the opportunities.

My point, exactly. So the answer is to increase the number of physicians.

[ccbatson]

Good luck doing that by increasing their debt, and decreasing reimbursement.

[rb336]

maybe we'd get doctors whose focus is on patient care, not on how much they can leach from the system

[elganned]

Good luck doing that by increasing their debt, and decreasing reimbursement.

I fail to see where anything I said would increase their debt. Is this another fevered imagining on your part, or can you specifically point to something I said?

[oladub]

AFL-CIO warns Reid against tax on high-cost healthcare plans in bill

"Under the Senate Finance Committee’s bill, plans costing more than $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for families would be hit with a 40 percent excise tax."

[ccbatson]

Elganned, last I checked, you weren't behind the monstrosity that is Obamacare. So, what you say or do has no impact whatsoever.

If you mean what about Obamacare will increase Physician liabilities and debt...taxation, increased tuition costs, government only issue loans with mandatory service attached, and on, and on.

[oladub]

According to this article, "The Senate Finance Committee health bill released last week controls doctors by cutting their pay if they give older patients more care than the government deems appropriate. Section 3003[[b) [[p. 683) punishes doctors who land in the 90th percentile or above on what they provide for seniors on Medicare by withholding 5 percent of their compensation."

"President Obama and his budget director, Peter Orszag, have told seniors not to worry, claiming that Medicare spending could be cut by as much as 30 percent without doing harm. They cite the Dartmouth Atlas of Healthcare 2008, which tries to prove patients who get less care -- fewer hospital days, doctors' visits and imaging tests -- have the same medical "outcomes" as patients who get more care."

The Dartmouth Atlas probably meant that everyone dies eventually. Who could argue with that? This is all good news because now maybe we can have free health care [[less is more) without adding to the deficit. Maybe even our insurance rates can come down because insurance companies won't have to pay out as much for old people who can be just as well without so much medical care.

[rb336]

This whole thing essentially boils down to re-paying physicians who fail to properly treat a patient the first time around -- they get less for repeat attempts to treat what they failed to treat the first time

[ccbatson]

Rb...you have zero experience or credibility to make a comment like that and get away with it. Failed to treat a chronic or recurring condition which is what is most common in Seniors? How do you propose to do that?

[rb336]

Rb...you have zero experience or credibility to make a comment like that and get away with it.

you don't have to be a doctor to understand the bill.

Failed to treat a chronic or recurring condition which is what is most common in Seniors? How do you propose to do that?

you clearly can't even understand what is essentially a simple sentence. let me dumb it down for you :

this is pay for performance rather than pay for procedure

[ccbatson]

You need to be both a lawyer and a Physician to grasp the meaning and ramifications Rb.

Pay for performance is a slogan covering for rationing which happens to victimize the sick and elderly.

[rb336]

no, bats, you just have to have the patience to read it closely

what a pathetic riposte on your part

[Lorax]

Keep in mind that some of these "evil rich doctors" are Democrats.

I could care less what their political affiliation is, if they think like a liberal and have Rethuglican Super Sized bank accounts, it goes to prove they can make money and keep their liberal priciples intact.

I've got nothing against the wealthy when they are responsible liberals- it's when they use their wealth like a weapon, as Rethuglicans are prone to do that I have a problem with.