ObamaCare

[Papasito]

"NO INCREASED TAXES ON THE MIDDLE CLASS"

Beginning in 2014:

• Health Insurance is taxable
• Prescription Drug tax takes effect

21 total new taxes levied under Obamacare

Once again the Middle Class takes it hard from the Democrats.

Multiple organizations who initially supported Obamacare have now published resentment and fiscal warnings about the implamentation of the "Affordable" Health Care Act.

• The taxation of Health Insurance is the single largest cost increase to Health Care in America in history.
• And Health Insurance premiums are expected to rise 150% percent over present cost in the next 4 years.
• People who work part-time who's employers do not offer benefits will be fined for not purchasing Health Care on their own.

The list of attacks on the working class and working poor go on and on.

Not so Affordable, is it?
When will they realize they made a HUGE mistake that the working class and the poor AND the Government can't afford, and go back to the drawing board on Health Care for all Americans?

[Zacha341]

^^^ Well, as then madam speaker of the house Pelosi said we'd need to pass the bill to 'find out what is in it'! We are starting that process! More um, surprises and reveal-ations pending.

[rb336]

Employer provided health care is NOT subjected to taxation under ACA.

To get the real picture, go here:

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Affordable-Ca...Tax-Provisions

[Papasito]

Reporting Employer Provided Health Coverage in Form W-2
The Affordable Care Act requires employers to report the cost of coverage under an employer-sponsored group health plan on an employee’s Form W-2, Wage and Tax Statement, in Box 12, using Code DD. Many employers are eligible for transition relief for tax-year 2012 and beyond, until the IRS issues final guidance for this reporting requirement.
The amount reported does not affect tax liability, as the value of the employer excludible contribution to health coverage continues to be excludible from an employee's income, and it is not taxable. This reporting is for informational purposes only, to show employees the value of their health care benefits so they can be more informed consumers.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Affordable-Ca...Tax-Provisions

The way I read this, would be: If your health insurance premium is $175.00 per week, and your employer pays $50.00 of it, and you pay $125.00 of it, you would pay tax on the $125.00 you pay. Correct?

Also, my only hope of getting / affording Health Insurance for me and my children is through the State exchange, because I can not afford $150.00 a week through my employer.
Do you know if I can use the exchange if I have a job and if my employer offers Health Insurance I can not afford?

[ghettopalmetto]

The way I read this, would be: If your health insurance premium is $175.00 per week, and your employer pays $50.00 of it, and you pay $125.00 of it, you would pay tax on the $125.00 you pay. Correct?

I'm no accountant, but I read that paragraph as, "The $50 per week contribution from your employer is not taxed as ordinary income." It doesn't say anything about tax liability on your own contribution, one way or another.

[Papasito]

I don't know of ANY employers that pay 100% of anyone's health insurance. Even Government workers have to pay [[Unless you're in Congress or the Senate, or the White House, of course. They live in a different world than us common folk) a significant chunk of their insurance premium.

[rb336]

The way I read this, would be: If your health insurance premium is $175.00 per week, and your employer pays $50.00 of it, and you pay $125.00 of it, you would pay tax on the $125.00 you pay. Correct?

incorrect. you wouldn't pay taxes on any of it

[Papasito]

... my only hope of getting / affording Health Insurance for me and my children is through the State exchange, because I can not afford $150.00 a week through my employer.
Do you know if I can use the exchange if I have a job and if my employer offers Health Insurance I can not afford?

Anyone have an answer on this?
I'm not sure about the restrictions on using the State exchange....
I think they are supposed to be up by the end of the year.

incorrect. you wouldn't pay taxes on any of it

I don't know, man, it doesn't specifically state that. The wording can be interpreted in multiple ways, I didn't read anything that definitively states that.

The big evil feds will be doing the heavy lifting.

There are a LOT of new taxes the middle class must pay to fund this giant program.

[rb336]

With Michigan not participating, the big evil feds will be doing the heavy lifting. your best bet for info is here:

http://www.healthcare.gov/news/facts...08122011b.html

[Papasito]

The law is too complicated. It's not going to bring prices down [[and prices are actually going up and expected to go up another 150%!!) like it was sold to the people as a bill of goods. Part time employees who's employers don't offer them health care have to buy insurance on the exchanges out of pocket or be fined. The entire system is way too complicated and hard to understand.

They should have created multiple Health Care Bills and chose the most efficient. Instead they just made one, and shoved it through.

We would have been better off with Federal Health Care, no matter how long the waiting list would be [[like Canada) and just charge us all another 5% income tax.

And don't give me any line about how they couldn't have passed it, because at the time Obamacare was passed, Democrats had majority control over House, Senate and White House and even if every single Republican voted against it, it STILL would have been passed.

Now we have a gigantic mess of a gigantic bill
And the people are going to get fined, pay through the nose and receive poorer health services.

[Zacha341]

^^^ But we're suppose to believe this 'plan' would not only be cheaper, provide more etc. Why it was even touted to be more malevolent and less greed and finance driven, don't cha know. Yeah.....

As we peal back the layers of this onion...........

[rb336]

The law is too complicated. It's not going to bring prices down [[and prices are actually going up and expected to go up another 150%!!)

according to whom?

Obamacare is a boon for the insurance industry, no one else.

[oladub]

The law is too complicated. It's not going to bring prices down [[and prices are actually going up and expected to go up another 150%!!)

"Although President Obama repeatedly claimed that health-insurance premiums for a family would be $2,500 lower by the end of his first term, they are actually about $3,000 higher—a spread of about $5,500 per family."


That's for starters. By transferring some Obamacare costs to policy holders, at least Obama can claim it hasn't raised taxes to that extent. The article goes on that say that it is likely that Obamacare will raise policy premiums another 50% on average but that some states, the more responsible ones, might experience increases of up to 100% in the cost of health insurance policies.

It must be said that part of the insurance increases have to do with new coverage requirements that are included or added to Obamacare. For instance, students up to age 26 are now covered so that cost has to be redistributed to non-students.

Taxpayers will have to pick up the tab for workers at companies whose employers cut them to part time to avoid paying into Obamacare or for some unemployed workers whose employers sent jobs overseas because the cost of production suddetly went up in the US.

Nancy didn't go far enough when she said we wouldn't know what's in it until we passed it. [[Who buy's a house without looking at more than a picture?) She should have said that we won't fully appreciate its effects until doctors, employers, insurers, and other groups have responded in their own self-interests.

[Zacha341]

Yep. Continuing to peal this onion will reveal more... And after a point it will matter little - rank and file level - which side of the [[my party can do no wrong) partisan fence you're on as the politics, to policy of this bill become very personal!

If you're at the top, power-elite 'important-folks-in-the-room' none of it effects you. You set laws and policy you're exempt from. That's politics and politicians and their insulary wealth and power.

...Nancy didn't go far enough when she said we wouldn't know what's in it until we passed it. [[Who buy's a house without looking at more than a picture?) She should have said that we won't fully appreciate its effects until doctors, employers, insurers, and other groups have responded in their own self-interests.

[sturge]

Wasnt' sure if I should post it as it's own thread, but this TIME article is a must read and a very long one and very educational.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/2...re-killing-us/

[rb336]

Wasnt' sure if I should post it as it's own thread, but this TIME article is a must read and a very long one and very educational.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/2...re-killing-us/

The author was on Charlie Rose last night. Good article, but nothing groundbreaking, although I like the way Brill phrases things. Our health system is built on exorbitant prices, wages and profits and operates via extortion.

[oladub]

The author was on Charlie Rose last night. Good article, but nothing groundbreaking, although I like the way Brill phrases things. Our health system is built on exorbitant prices, wages and profits and operates via extortion.

Agreed. Appointing a Monsanto lobbyist to run the FDA isn't a good starting point. "If you set out to design a corrupt, inefficient, wasteful, unfair, deranged and unreformable system, you would arrive at U.S. healthcare." Our expensive private healthcare insurance system, has been grandfathered in by Obamacare. US health care"is unsustainable for a number of interlocking reasons: defensive medicine in response to a broken malpractice system; opaque pricing; quasi-monopolies/cartels; systemic disconnect of health from food, diet and fitness; fraud and paperwork consume at least 40% of all sickcare funds; fee-for-service in a cartel system; employers being responsible for healthcare, and a fundamental absence of competition and transparency." Large corporate cartels are the beneficiaries. Small businesses are being squeezed.

ObamaCare will act as a neutron bomb on employment in the U.S. for two basic reasons.

[jerrytimes]

Funny, since Obama because our president, my hourly pay has gone up a few bucks an hour.... Yet I take home pretty much the same amount. My taxes are higher and my medical insurance has almost doubled. I'm middle class.... I thought he said that wasn't going to happen?

[Papasito]

Jerry,
You got a raise? Wow. I didn't know that those existed anymore.
You need to hang on to that job. You are very blessed.
These days most people are given a pay cut, told to do the jobs of the other people who got laid off or terminated, and told to STFU because they are lucky they even have a job at all. You can't complain because they will fire you, and you can't quit because no one else is hiring.

This is the working class reality in the United States of America.

______________

RE: The Obamacare Penatly:

Now, I did read on the H&R Block website that if your employer does not offer "affordable" health insurance in 2013, you can avoid the $568.00 penalty.
Under Obamacare, "Affordable" health insurance is determined to be insurance that is below 8% of your gross income.
For example - My employer's plan is $175.00 per WEEK for me and my two kids. $175.00 x 52 weeks = $9100.00 per year. That means any employee who makes less than $113,750.00 and does not buy this plan does not have to pay the penalty.

Well, I am one of the higher paid employees at the company I work for, and I do not make $113,750.00 per year. I don't understand how the entry level employees, low paid labor employees and office staff could afford over $9000.00 per year in health insurance [[that only covers up to 80% of your bills after a $2500.00 per person deductible). Who the hell can afford that off $10.00 per hour? NO ONE.
Think my health plan at $175.00 per week isn't affordable? I have been told by many people that mine is actually LOW compared to theirs.

This is real life here. I can't afford to buy health insurance for me and my kids. This is not a "Cadillac" plan either. And rates are supposed to go up 150% according to many sources in the health care and health insurance industries over the next 4 years.

So, how does Obamacare make Health Insurance affordable for WORKING MIDDLE CLASS Americans?

It Does Not.



Keep in mind: My plan cost is 1 Parent & Children. Folks who need plans that cover SPOUSE, themselves, and children have to buy a more expensive plan.

[rb336]

Funny, since Obama because our president, my hourly pay has gone up a few bucks an hour.... Yet I take home pretty much the same amount. My taxes are higher and my medical insurance has almost doubled. I'm middle class.... I thought he said that wasn't going to happen?

Really? tax rates under Obama are lower than at any point in the last 60 years. Insurance rates, on the other hand, have nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with the 30+% administrative costs including mega-million dollar salaries for executives in the insurance industry [[including so-called non-profits) and the incredible price gauging by hospitals and big Pharma

[Papasito]

the incredible price gauging by hospitals and big Pharma

Maybe if they passed interstate competition and price controls to protect people from price gouging instead of the Obamacare monstrosity, it wouldn't be like that.

[ghettopalmetto]

Maybe if they passed interstate competition and price controls to protect people from price gouging instead of the Obamacare monstrosity, it wouldn't be like that.

So you want the "competition" of a free market...but price controls imposed by the government?

Yeah, that's based in reality. Never mind that your fantasy plan doesn't provide health insurance for people with pre-existing conditions, or do anything to keep the poor and uninsured from using emergency rooms as their PCP.

[rb336]

Maybe if they passed interstate competition and price controls to protect people from price gouging instead of the Obamacare monstrosity, it wouldn't be like that.

that won't exactly help. There is no free market in health care. If you have a heart attack, you can't get the price from hospital "A" and price shop hospitals "B" and "C". the more insurance carriers in the market, the more the hospitals can demand from them.

[Papasito]

That's why I am saying they should have price controls.
For example, why can you charge Mr. Hernandez $9000.00 to fix his broken arm, then charge Mr. Adams $15000.00 then Mr. Johnson $12500.00
There should be some type of pricing guideline for procedures.

There is a system in place for many products in the US to prevent price gouging. Say, for example, gasoline. If you're in a storm/hurricane effected area and gas stations jack the price up, they can be fined/punished for it. Maybe a system that punishes hospitals/doctors for pumping up prices beyond a reasonable price should be implemented.

I'm all for free enterprise, free market and what not, but I AM NOT for price gouging and just pulling prices out of thin air. Especially when it comes to something like health care.

I've always thought price controls and protection against GOUGING people for health care was a good idea and could keep prices reasonable.
Right now doctors and hospitals can charge whatever they want, and when they are above and beyond insurance pricing, the patient is many times having to pay the difference. That's not fair, is it?

[oladub]

Really? tax rates under Obama are lower than at any point in the last 60 years. Insurance rates, on the other hand, have nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with the 30+% administrative costs including mega-million dollar salaries for executives in the insurance industry [[including so-called non-profits) and the incredible price gauging by hospitals and big Pharma

Federal spending exceeds federal revenue by over 35%. Actual tax rates include taxes presently paid plus deferred taxes our children will pay to pay for the Bush/Obama follies. Including these deferred taxes, our taxes are not "lower than at any point in the last 60 years". Taxes will ultimately pay for all federal spending and federal spending is up over $800/year for every man, woman, and child in the US since Obama took office. Therefore, the total of taxes paid and due are at record highs.

Insurance rates do have to do with Obama. When he was trying to sell Obamacare, Obama promised that Obamacare would cut family heath insurance premiums in half. Instead, family health care premiums have risen an average of $2,500/family. If Obama hadn't lied or been a victim of his own wishful thinking, maybe this thing would never have passed. Family health insurance is expected to rise another 50% because of Obamacare. Also, courts, legislation and interpretation have expanded requirements in health insurance plans so, for instance, we now have to pay for kids until they are 26 even if we don't have kids or took care of our own kids. It was clever to shift higher Obamacare costs to the insured to hide costs. Obamacare also locked insurance profits into our health care system unlike Canadian provincial systems that mostly kicked out lawyers, insurance companies, and paper shufflers. What should we expect from a president who put a Monsanto lobbyist in as head of the FDA?

Papasito, Your are confusing the effects of corporatist policies with the competition that government and large corporations have successfully eliminated. I agree that costs are too high but you are asking protection from the same people who have put us into this mess. Good luck with the results. Obamacare was supposed to cut costs but our taxes and insurance rates have kept going up. Sounds like you are asking for super-Obamacare. Rationing and price controls don't work very long unless you are ready to accept shortages and lower standards.

I would go in the other direction and encourage medical practices providing fifty dollar no paperwork work office visits and other creative responses to cost. Along the lines of what you were suggesting though, tort reform would be helpful.