Can Greektown be saved?

[Meddle]

First page covered it mostly. No need to read the other three.

Last time I was there was mid 90s while it was still mostly a decent place. Don't remember when Emily's closed, but that was a fun spot to browse around. Trapper's Alley was sort of unique at the time. There was too much dead space on the block to the west before you got to Fishbones and some bar I can't remember the name of. Old Shillelagh maybe?

Then came the end in the interests of greed.

[Henry Whalley]

Greektown vigil planned for slain 'Protector of Monroe Street' [[detroitnews.com)

[401don]

Greektown vigil planned for slain 'Protector of Monroe Street' [[detroitnews.com)

This is just bizarre. Not during a heat of the moment altercation, but later outside he just calmly pulls out a gun and shoots the guard in the chest with cops all around. How do you possibly prevent people with that mentality? I also didn't know there were 5 shootings in Greektown that weekend.

[DeLemur]

This is just bizarre. Not during a heat of the moment altercation, but later outside he just calmly pulls out a gun and shoots the guard in the chest with cops all around. How do you possibly prevent people with that mentality? I also didn't know there were 5 shootings in Greektown that weekend.

Great questions. How do you prevent that? You can't. How do you prevent someone from having that mentality in their head? There is such a deep disregard for life happening here. Makes no sense. Around someone cutting in line? Do we have enough people in society affirming the value of life right now, especially in trivial situations? It doesn't feel like it. Then of course I wonder about the access to that gun and mental health of the shooter.

To stay on topic, Greektown is the scene for wildn' out right now. That scene has to move somewhere else.

[Henry Whalley]

How do you prevent that? You can't. How do you prevent someone from having that mentality in their head?

"The city plans to install undercover police officers in crowded areas to monitor them for fights that could escalate to fatal violence."

Isn't that a little like STRESS?

[ABetterDetroit]

How long should they stay locked up? Alleged perp in this case had 2 prior weapons convictions. It really sucks that to find out that he wasn’t going to stop carrying guns around for when he felt he needed one a 3rd time that a good guy had to pay with his life.

https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/ot...cNumber=708419

[royce]

How long should they stay locked up? Alleged perp in this case had 2 prior weapons convictions. It really sucks that to find out that he wasn’t going to stop carrying guns around for when he felt he needed one a 3rd time that a good guy had to pay with his life.

https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/ot...cNumber=708419

When he was video arraigned, he was fidgeting and looked like someone on drugs. I read the rap sheet and noticed that the DOC recorded him as having 35 tattoos. Thirty-five? Is that a sign of a disturbed person? Also, I noticed that he is only 5'5'' tall. Did he feel he had to prove something by shooting the 6'6'' security guard? Whatever his motivation, an innocent man is dead for nothing.

[Richard]

It highlights growing pains and two different dimensions within the city.

You have the past where the city was the wild Wild West and people acted with impunity so now you have that divide,on one side you have the residents that say those days are over with and in the other side you have those who say,you guys got your chance to raise hell,now it is our turn.

You just have to find your part of the city to corral them into where the residents that do not agree with it know to stay away,Kinda like a little sleazy red light district.

You are not going to stop it no matter how many police or funds you throw at it.

If you can do a photo shoot on top of an iconic building without permission from the owner it shows a blatant disregard for any laws,what is happening now is no different then what has been happening for decades,who flips the light switch of saying it was okay for me but now it’s not for you?

You are fighting 30 years of an ingrained culture of all bets are off in Detroit and street credit is all that matters.

[ABetterDetroit]

You just have to find your part of the city to corral them into where the residents that do not agree with it know to stay away

Hitler would be proud of you Dick.

Your proposing step one of the final solution.

[Henry Whalley]

Hitler would be proud of you Dick...

Gross exaggeration, blindness, and false equivalence. Hitler's victims [Jews, Catholics, Queers, Constitutionalists, Romany, Marxists, Mongoloids, Modernists, the Disabled, etc.] weren't gang-bangers, weren't terrorizing entire cities and making them unlivable for all decent residents.

You certainly can see the difference?

[Richard]

Hitler would be proud of you Dick.

Your proposing step one of the final solution.

It’s okay to come out of the basement now.

Every city in the country has a section of town where people go to party and others go there to do stupid things,that’s kinda how it works,you confine it to a particular section so it does not become widespread.

Do you have the same issues downtown?

Outside of that, we are all ears waiting for your brilliant solution,we as in every city in the world.

You are thinking if you crack down there the morons are just going to disappear or become model citizens?

[masterblaster]

It’s okay to come out of the basement now.

Every city in the country has a section of town where people go to party and others go there to do stupid things,that’s kinda how it works,you confine it to a particular section so it does not become widespread.

Do you have the same issues downtown?

Outside of that, we are all ears waiting for your brilliant solution,we as in every city in the world.

You are thinking if you crack down there the morons are just going to disappear or become model citizens?

Since you are from Florida, can you identify/list these small sections of specific Florida's cities where these types of activities and these type of people congregate?

[Richard]

Since you are from Florida, can you identify/list these small sections of specific Florida's cities where these types of activities and these type of people congregate?

Depends on where you go,Tampa would be Ybor City,historical center,really cool during the day but when the clubs open up at night,you will get the same comments as here,some can deal with it others simply avoid it at night,lots of police and cameras serve little protections.

Orlando,downtown as a whole,okay during the day but night is different.

Used to be international drive by Disney and lots of tourists,but they have a special tourist police force there,you do not want to be on their radar because nobody really knows what happens to the ones they catch,you do not mess with the tourists.


A lot of the smaller beach towns are divided,there is a line and do not drive past that line and you have no problems.

The casino by me has their own police force,cars and everything,they never leave the grounds,but yet many problems with people watching if you win then following you home or getting you in the parking garage.

I live in the Ghetto/hood ,pretty much no crime is you are not in the drug game,but yet the preppy neighborhoods are riddled with crime even the wealthy parts offer no sanctuary anymore.

Amsterdam proved the red light districts work,but now they are changing because the land value has gone crazy.

Minneapolis had Hennepin Ave,like mentioned Philadelphia has Kensington Ave,but they are cracking down at that.

Bottom line is what do you do with that element? Contain them or spread them out across the whole city?

I agree with the 2 part theory,because it worked before.

Even the days of moving to the suburbs for peace and security has gone down the tubes.

It does not matter how many police you throw in there,how many câmaras or how much money,to me anyways you cannot deal with thugs with a hug and a kiss,you have to deal with them in their level and just like they would treat anybody else.

Look at what is happening in Hati,the police cannot help rid of the gangs controlling everything,so now the citizens are taking up arms and going after the gangs.

But like mentioned,people are off the chain everywhere it’s like a no holds barred free for all,if I was a conspiracy theorist I would say they crop dusted the whole country because people are just flipping out over stuff they would have never given a second thought before.

So now is a particular area unsafe simply based on the more people you have the odds of somebody doing something stupid are higher ?

[Rocket]

Every city in the country has a section of town where people go to party and others go there to do stupid things,that’s kinda how it works,you confine it to a particular section so it does not become widespread.

We used to have red-light districts, where drug dealing and hookers were overlooked. That kept the shopping districts safe for taxpaying citizenry to shop.

Mayor Young came in with the idea that we should get rid of both Stress and red-light districts, and have the crime be everywhere.

That idea didn't work out well.

[canuck]

We used to have red-light districts, where drug dealing and hookers were overlooked. That kept the shopping districts safe for taxpaying citizenry to shop.

Mayor Young came in with the idea that we should get rid of both Stress and red-light districts, and have the crime be everywhere.

That idea didn't work out well.

Philadelphia has Kensington district for a massive open air drug prostitution and misery marketplace. But if you care to look at a violent crime and homicide distribution map of the city, it is all over the place. So, no, the red light district hypothetically concentrating crime and criminal containment wouldn't work.

[night-timer]

With the closings of so many restaurants in Greektown [[Pizza Papalis, Monroe Steakhouse, New Parthenon, Five Guys, Wahlburgers) can anything be done to revive the Monroe strip? Dan Gilbert never made the effort to activate the street the way he promised or has done along Woodward. We all know that it hasn't been a "Greektown" for years and we know about the crime, changing demographics, casino, etc. There's not much point in rehashing the problems. I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on what new types of restaurants, retail shops, infrastructure, etc. might help to rejuvenate the area. It's a place suburbanites and tourists still visit and has become much more of a negative than positive for downtown. Or maybe we just give up on it and focus on Woodward?

Greektown is popular with tourists. It works for them, even if local Detroiters aren't as fond of that area. You need it. There's a lot in a tight little space. You don't need much local knowledge to see and explore it. Woodward is stretched out, not condensed, but the ice arena has added a lot to that previous dead area at Park and Sproat Streets.

I never found Greektown dangerous or crime-y.

[masterblaster]

New restaurant opening soon in Greektown called Table No. 2 at the corner of Monroe and Brush. The signage indicates it will serve steak, seafood, and sushi.

https://tablenumber2.com/


Table No.2 might be familiar, it was a popular, short-lived restaurant on the Avenue of Fashion in 2019-20 that was booted out by the owner of the building who was selling the building and didn't want to extend the lease beyond the 1 year.

https://www.freep.com/story/entertai...nt/3162860001/

[ABetterDetroit]

Gross exaggeration, blindness, and false equivalence. Hitler's victims [Jews, Catholics, Queers, Constitutionalists, Romany, Marxists, Mongoloids, Modernists, the Disabled, etc.] weren't gang-bangers, weren't terrorizing entire cities and making them unlivable for all decent residents.

You certainly can see the difference?

Your looking at the end result. I said “the first step”. How do you think Germany arrived at the Holocaust? Just woke up one day and decided to commit genocide by the millions? Blaming, Hate, Extreme Prejudice, a total lack of Justice. ‘Corralling people’ and then justifying they were subhuman.

No, we don’t need to condone people committing crimes with guns anywhere to fix Greek town. A stupid idea like that is just Dicks usual thought to paint with a broad brush. You can bet his ‘corral’ of hate and crime would be inflicted on a community of color and not be in Rochester.

Zero tolerance of felons carrying illegal firearms with mandatory sentencing would help Greek town and all of the city. Repeat offenders are a good chunk of the problem. Chief White has said it directly. Criminology data backs it up.

[Richard]

Nothing like using a narrative as a solution lol

Just declare it a gun free zone,or better yet a violence free zone,that will stop the bad guys.

That exactly how STRESS operated zero tolerance,the war on drugs,zero tolerance your choice of actions is exactly what you are accusing others of,Stevie Wonder can see that,to bad you cannot.

You do not notice how everytime you go out of your way to take pot shots at me all you accomplish is showing how ignorant you really are,nobody can really not have that much of a clue without actually trying really hard.

Detroit City Council members on Tuesday postponed a vote on a resolution to establish gun-free zones in certain high-traffic parts of the city.

At a meeting in April, Waters proposed gun-free zones in areas that include the Detroit riverfront, Greektown, Hart Plaza, Spirit of Detroit Plaza and Campus Martius. Shootings have occurred in the downtown area in recent weekends as the weather warms toward summer and more people head outside.

I don't believe the correct response to the violence that we have had in our city is to deny basic liberties to the residents, and specifically the idea of making Greektown into a gun-free zone is not going to help make anyone safer and it is an infringement of people's basic rights," said Boman,

[Richard]

^ broken and busted out windows of The Las Angles and Trunks

Those buildings still there?

[Gistok]

^ broken and busted out windows of The Las Angles and Trunks

Those buildings still there?

Nope, mostly parking and parking structure on Michigan Ave between 1st and 3rd Ave...

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3318.../data=!3m1!1e3

[K-slice]

This is some insightful conversation on how crime has traditionally been prevented city-wide. You can see this happening on a larger muti-city scale in the Pacific Northwest where entire cities like Portland have become havens for drugs and crime due to lax policies. There are videos of newly arrived residents telling the cameras they were given free bus tickets to these cities where their habits are officially condoned.

So should Detroit have a lawless area for drugs and other crime to exist in order to save the rest of the city?

[ABetterDetroit]

This is some insightful conversation on how crime has traditionally been prevented city-wide. You can see this happening on a larger muti-city scale in the Pacific Northwest where entire cities like Portland have become havens for drugs and crime due to lax policies. There are videos of newly arrived residents telling the cameras they were given free bus tickets to these cities where their habits are officially condoned.

So should Detroit have a lawless area for drugs and other crime to exist in order to save the rest of the city?

Like make it well known to everyone that’s arrested with an illegal gun in Michigan that everyone can carry in Florida without a permit? Put it on billboards that so many people are printing down there and have glocks handy in the car next to them that it is practically impossible to check criminal records? I think you could be on to something here K-slice…

[Rocket]

where entire cities like Portland have become havens for drugs and crime due to lax policies. There are videos of newly arrived residents telling the cameras they were given free bus tickets to these cities where their habits are officially condoned.

So should Detroit have a lawless area for drugs and other crime to exist in order to save the rest of the city?

Why not the other way around? Buy our criminals bus tickets to Cleveland, Chicago, St Louis, Baltimore, Philly etc?

Might get even more takers if they can get tickets to someplace that's also warm, like New Orleans, Batton Rouge, Memphis, Mobile AL, Tulsa, Atlanta, Nashville.

[Richard]

This is some insightful conversation on how crime has traditionally been prevented city-wide. You can see this happening on a larger muti-city scale in the Pacific Northwest where entire cities like Portland have become havens for drugs and crime due to lax policies. There are videos of newly arrived residents telling the cameras they were given free bus tickets to these cities where their habits are officially condoned.

So should Detroit have a lawless area for drugs and other crime to exist in order to save the rest of the city?

Places like Portland and Seattle have actually had population increases because they pay a monthly check for homeless plus other benefits.

Orlando at one time studied the concept of creating a red light district from scratch on the city boundary,it would have been where all the topless bars,clubs etc would have been located in one spot,it did not end up getting approved.

It’s about containment and allocating resources,but when you look at the crime mapping of Detroit it seems to be everywhere but not heavy in one spot more so then others.

And it is a large city with a lot of ground to cover,it looks like a case of if you pull resources from one spot to another,you end up just shuffling crime around the city and not really dealing with it.

You cannot arrest your way out of it,it would be like playing whack-a-mole,if guess if one can find the answer the rest of the world would be all ears.

When you look at NYC it was genifcation that changed the crime rates,if Detroit could bring in 100,000 more non crime motivated people the crime rate per 1000 would drop.