Campus shooting at Michigan State University

[Henry Whalley]

Why the obsession with assault rifles when all types of rifles are used in less than 3% of murders. There was also no assault rifle in Oxford or MSU.

There ought to be better control of all firearms. Secondly, in addition to murders [looks like Alabama isn't reporting them] we need to look at the maimed or wounded -- those hurt bodily or psychologically -- because in most firearms assaults the wounded outnumber the dead.

P.S. Not to mention emotional trauma suffered by family members, friends, classmates, witnesses, etc. And not to mention emotional trauma suffered by society at large just from seeing this insanity happen everyday. And not to mention citizens' loss of faith in legislators who don't give a rat's ass about gun violence.

[DetroitSoldier]

Oh look the horrific death of more children has lead to grown adults turning into keyboard warriors and name calling and claiming "politics" instead of dealing the the underlying issues that continue to be ignored. A senseless tragedy has happened and you really think being an internet tough guy is going to prove a point? No wonder nothing changes from our elected leaders because they are being elected by idiots.

The left and the right are both responsible for this. Neither side truly cares about solving violence in schools. Both have had their time in power and both have failed to confront the problem. The right is controlled by gun lobbyists who think gun rights are more important than peoples right to live. The left won't truly get rid of guns because they need an "enemy" to continue their fight for more power.

[Henry Whalley]

No wonder nothing changes from our elected leaders because they are being elected by idiots.

What would you suggest? Tell me the one to vote for who will address gun violence...

[ABetterDetroit]

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-20

Why the obsession with assault rifles when all types of rifles are used in less than 3% of murders. There was also no assault rifle in Oxford or MSU.

Because some people have a trait called empathy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B6fE2JkvVoo

[oladub]

What would you suggest? Tell me the one to vote for who will address gun violence...

Only four states, VT, NH, Maine, and Idaho, have a lower homicide rate than Canada which is often used as an acceptable standard. VT is so liberal it elected Bernie. Idaho hasn't voted for a Democratic presidential candidate since 1964. NH and Maine are purple states. Yet they all do better than Canada. Distill out what they have in common and bottle it. Maybe it has more to do with cultures than whom we vote for. What all the Somalis in Maine have to do with Idaho cowboys, I don't know.

[mkd]

Only four states, VT, NH, Maine, and Idaho, have a lower homicide rate than Canada... Distill out what they have in common and bottle it.

Basically the least diverse and least urban states in the country? Higher diversity and more urbanization means higher chance of a mass shooting?

[royce]

Only four states, VT, NH, Maine, and Idaho, have a lower homicide rate than Canada which is often used as an acceptable standard. VT is so liberal it elected Bernie. Idaho hasn't voted for a Democratic presidential candidate since 1964. NH and Maine are purple states. Yet they all do better than Canada. Distill out what they have in common and bottle it. Maybe it has more to do with cultures than whom we vote for. What all the Somalis in Maine have to do with Idaho cowboys, I don't know.

I applaud the states you mentioned with having low murder rates, but those states have small populations compared to the rest of the United States. A smaller population on average is also going to have a smaller group of mentally ill people. Again, the easier solution in dealing with mental illness and the mentally ill having guns is to deal with the type of guns being produced. It just seems so simple of a solution. I own a hand gun, but I don't desire to have an assault weapon.

[Richard]

The right is controlled by gun lobbyists who think gun rights are more important than peoples right to live.

Wow,so only the Right and gun lobbyists support guns?

When you joined the service you took an oath - To support and defend the constitution of the United States of America

The constitution is primary,guns are secondary,people are not protecting guns,they are protecting the constitution that allows them the right to bear arms.

So what happens when we decide to start picking and choosing what parts of the constitution we will follow ?

Constitution dictates that every U.S. citizen is to be treated equally,what happens if you get somebody in power that gets support to change the constitution and remove that ?

Who then decides who gets treated equally and who does not?

We are not a democracy,we do not get to decide,the constitution sets the guidelines that we follow,and history provides us with many examples of what happens when people in power get the sole authority to decide who gets rights and who does not.

I, _____, do solemnly swear [[or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Henry Whalley]

Wow,so only the Right and gun lobbyists support guns?

tldr

[Richard]

^ okay hypocritical troll.

assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.

99% of the time people are calling rifles “assault rifles” are not even assault rifles

The other big requirement for owning a machine gun is that it must have been made before May 19, 1986. It was the Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 which officially closed the NFA registry to new machine guns. After May 19, 1986, private citizens would no longer be allowed to register new machine guns, but transfers of existing registered guns are still allowed.
Because of this, machine guns are becoming more and more expensive as the supply is significantly less than the demand. Get ready for sticker shock if you start shopping around for a machine gun, as you should expect to spend a minimum of $6,000-$10,000 to buy one. Popular models, like M16s and Tommy Guns, are closer to $30,000 or more. Essentially, machine guns are quickly becoming investments rather than practical firearms for use.

Definition of a machine gun

an automatic gun that fires bullets in rapid succession for as long as the trigger is pressed:


How many shooters are running around with $30,000 assault rifles?

[oladub]

I applaud the states you mentioned with having low murder rates, but those states have small populations compared to the rest of the United States. A smaller population on average is also going to have a smaller group of mentally ill people. Again, the easier solution in dealing with mental illness and the mentally ill having guns is to deal with the type of guns being produced. It just seems so simple of a solution. I own a hand gun, but I don't desire to have an assault weapon.

I suspect that low population states have a similar per capita ratio of mentally ill people but I don't know that. There tends to be literally more space between people in rural areas if that helps crazy people from being triggered. My best high school friend lapsed into schizophrenia after graduating from U of M. Living in Detroit made him nervous. Moving to a small town in the UP at least calmed him. He complained about hearing the occasional gunshot at night he heard in Detroit. "Insane" people I know of in rural settings were all non-violent. One was a hunter who spent much of his time in the bush in northern Ontario year round doing hunting and trapping. When tragedy struck his family and 6 family members died in six months, he took it hard and disappeared into the woods. The MSU guy grieved when his mother died, fell apart, and took it out on others it seems. Charlie, the hunter, just went away. Same sort of provocation and life disaster but different responses. I have no idea why but those four states must be full of hunting rifles.

[ABetterDetroit]

^ okay hypocritical troll.

assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.

99% of the time people are calling rifles “assault rifles” are not even assault rifles

The other big requirement for owning a machine gun is that it must have been made before May 19, 1986. It was the Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 which officially closed the NFA registry to new machine guns. After May 19, 1986, private citizens would no longer be allowed to register new machine guns, but transfers of existing registered guns are still allowed.
Because of this, machine guns are becoming more and more expensive as the supply is significantly less than the demand. Get ready for sticker shock if you start shopping around for a machine gun, as you should expect to spend a minimum of $6,000-$10,000 to buy one. Popular models, like M16s and Tommy Guns, are closer to $30,000 or more. Essentially, machine guns are quickly becoming investments rather than practical firearms for use.

Definition of a machine gun

an automatic gun that fires bullets in rapid succession for as long as the trigger is pressed:


How many shooters are running around with $30,000 assault rifles?

Nobody cares what you gun fetish types do or do not call them Dick.

Battle rifle, Black Rifle, AR, AK, Assault Rifle…

What was being referenced are military type rifles in semi-automatic that are lightweight and have a manageable recoil that fire as fast as you can pull the trigger and feature a mil spec 30 round quick detachable magazine for fast reloading that are easily, cheaply and readily available in America. They are designed to be highly effective at killing many people very quickly. The gun of choice for killing at the Las Vegas Country Music Concert, Movie Theaters, Churches, Walmarts, Supermarkets, High Schools, Nightclubs, Downtowns, Shopping Malls and of course the famous Sandy Hook Elementary and Uvalde Elementary School massacres of small children.

What name you call the AR/AK type rifle is irrelevant. They are Human killing Machines.

Ironic that you bring up NFA weapons that are registered with the ATF when whoever owns one has to have a federal firearms license, a complete back round check that takes months including fingerprinting by that agency and the owner pays the tax stamp for the transfer. Plus the weapon can be inspected at any time of the ATFs choosing making sure the weapon hasn’t wandered anywhere. In other words, the Exact kind of effective control and regulation many of us would like to see for AR / AK type weapons so they don’t continue to kill kids in schools or any other location people congregate.

No reason to be obtuse Dick. It is pointless, nobody is fooled.

[Richard]

Wars were fought for centuries before gunpowder was invented,they found a way,a crossbow could kill cause just as much death because it is silent and would not install panic.

Its not being obtuse,if somebody is in that state of mind they are going to find a way to cause harm,people focus in the choice of weapon because they can see it and direct anger towards that.

Somebody mentioned population density as a counter gun violence,does anybody really think that a gang is going to go work at Starbucks if they do not have excess to guns?

Like it has also been posted,people do not want to address the real issues in society,it’s just lazier,easier and more dangerous to blame it on the gun,even better when you can increase the effect by calling it a weapon of war.

More then 46,000 people die each year in auto deaths,they had spent decades and billions to prevent auto deaths,but yet they still happen.

It does not matter what I say,until I say guns are evil and agree with you,you will think of every reason under the sun to oppose me,even as silly as name calling,that’s what these shooters are doing,justifying in their mind as to why people they oppose should die.

So what is that threshold that you have when you are in that mindset,have excess to a gun,but chose not to pick one up and eliminate all those that you oppose?

By the structure of your post and others,you have already justified in your mind that those you oppose are inferior,what stops you from taking it to the next level and acting on it?

Because that’s what these people are doing,justifying in their minds,the gun is just a choice of weapon and if that was not available they would find something else because they have already crossed that threshold.

A smaller version would be,what is the difference between somebody that would not think twice about taking an item from a store without paying for it verses somebody that would not think twice about doing it,or it would never enter their mind.

[southen]

We're at that point in the argument where guns get compared to cars and crossbows as if it is even close or relevant. Are there a lot of high capacity crossbows out there that are super easy to aim that we are unaware of? Are automobile ACCIDENTS the same as the most efficient weapons on the market whose sole purpose is to kill or injure as quickly as possible? That is where we are at? Do they have this problem in Europe with crossbows and cars, or do they regulate in a way that prevents people from killing at the rate that Americans do? With the slightest bit of scrutiny and comparison to other countries the whole argument laughably falls apart.

Then there is the second part that comes up. Mental health. Right wingers love tossing that out there and claim that the focus should be put on mental health and outreach in this country. Then the people they elect cut funding for mental health and refuse to offer up a healthcare alternative. They also refused to allow the CDC to study gun violence in any way because that too might go against their narrative. Rinse and repeat.

Guns are low effort and maximum impact. The "good guy with a gun" argument is a right wing fever dream where they get to pretend to be Rambo as they clean their arsenal of weaponry that rarely ever happens in real life. Since we like comparing to cars, giving everyone a weapon and the license to shoot whenever threatened would be akin to giving 5 year olds automobiles without any drivers training and expecting them to be good drivers. It is ridiculous and the rest of the world looks at us like we're insane.

[Richard]

The rest of the world contains dictators that slaughter entire villages because they share a different religion,the rest of the world started 2 world wars that saw millions meet their death,civilians including women and children,the rest of the world is in no position to look at us like we are insane.

Why is it you are allowed to provide your discussion with your POV but everybody that disagrees is a PÓS?

That’s what spawns evilness.

What makes you arguments so special? All you are doing is repeating talking points and living in some fantasy world that if you get rid of guns the violence will decrease.

The world looks at us like we are insane? But yet millions across the world risk death in order to come to this country every year.

How come millions are not pouring over Canadas border ?

Do you think it might just be because of our constitution they know they will be allowed protections that no other country provides ?

Did the increase in school shootings occur because of excess to guns?

Guns have been around for a long time.

Or did school shootings increase because of the notoriety they provide,a mall shooting happens,it makes the news for a day,a school shooting and it becomes a platform for gun control and all of the trolls come out of the woodwork 24/7 saying if guns were removed if will remove the urge to kill somebody.

So far based on the information provided this case the guy had zero connections to the school so why did he choose the school verses some other public place ?

It was not the gun that told him to choose the school,Society and social media has also expanded peoples platform that look to be recognized by society where nobody would have known about them before.

Claims to fame,Bonnie and Clyde did not fade into the woodwork,they wanted to be remembered for all eternity so they went out like they did and people still talk about them today.

What happens in the future with your mindset ? African Americans are killing each other in the hoods,if we could just eliminate them then the violence would decrease,to bad for you that constitution says you cannot do that because they are U.S. citizens protected under that constitution just as the right to bear arms is.

How much of the gun debate is actually about guns,or the ability to dictate to others without opposition?

See how people view your tired old arguments,no different then you view others tired old arguments.

Maybe it is time to concentrate in motivating factors verses weapons of choice,because clearly weapons of choice are exactly that.

[Henry Whalley]

It is ridiculous and the rest of the world looks at us like we're insane.

Not to mention the fact that we're not at war. We're talking about 71 mass shootings in the US this year – in just 6 weeks.These aren't shootings of enemy combatants, but of our own friends, neighbors, children, family, etc. Richard seems not to have noticed the difference as usual.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...3/11262414002/

[401don]

We're at that point in the argument where guns get compared to cars and crossbows as if it is even close or relevant. Are there a lot of high capacity crossbows out there that are super easy to aim that we are unaware of? Are automobile ACCIDENTS the same as the most efficient weapons on the market whose sole purpose is to kill or injure as quickly as possible? That is where we are at? Do they have this problem in Europe with crossbows and cars, or do they regulate in a way that prevents people from killing at the rate that Americans do? With the slightest bit of scrutiny and comparison to other countries the whole argument laughably falls apart.

Then there is the second part that comes up. Mental health. Right wingers love tossing that out there and claim that the focus should be put on mental health and outreach in this country. Then the people they elect cut funding for mental health and refuse to offer up a healthcare alternative. They also refused to allow the CDC to study gun violence in any way because that too might go against their narrative. Rinse and repeat.

Guns are low effort and maximum impact. The "good guy with a gun" argument is a right wing fever dream where they get to pretend to be Rambo as they clean their arsenal of weaponry that rarely ever happens in real life. Since we like comparing to cars, giving everyone a weapon and the license to shoot whenever threatened would be akin to giving 5 year olds automobiles without any drivers training and expecting them to be good drivers. It is ridiculous and the rest of the world looks at us like we're insane.

Well said. In addition to the mass shootings there are the many more gun deaths that occur because the ever present gun is used in a moment of anger by a spouse, stranger in a bar, child in a bedroom, etc. This doesn't include the innocent people killed during crimes like robberies and drive by shootings.
Toronto is seeing more gun crime and most of the weapons, [[85% according to the attached article) come across the border illegally. This is of course why strict laws in U.S. cities and states are a waste of time unless they are nationwide.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/in-fig...blem-1.6004198

[Danny]

Michigan State Police had found the suspects loaded bombs, guns and other ammo in his back pack and a note stating " There were be 20 people who will take the next target."

We are going to keep a lookout.

[southen]

The rest of the world contains dictators that slaughter entire villages because they share a different religion,the rest of the world started 2 world wars that saw millions meet their death,civilians including women and children,the rest of the world is in no position to look at us like we are insane.

Why is it you are allowed to provide your discussion with your POV but everybody that disagrees is a PÓS?

That’s what spawns evilness.

Wait, the modern first world can't look at us on this issue as not having a clue because there have been wars in the past? That is the argument here? Did I miss something where our past didn't include slavery, wars started and genocide?

In this debate I hold that the POS moniker is mostly for you.

That's what spawns evil though? Coming from the guy who calls everyone to the left a communist who is looking to imprison people?

If you ever became self aware you might die from an aneurysm.

[Rocket]

Wait, the modern first world can't look at us on this issue as not having a clue because there have been wars in the past?

When millions pay with their lives, we shouldn't forget what caused it, and then try to repeat it as soon as possible. That's just plain stupid.

The Socialist left is responsible for most of the suffering and death in history. Slavery? lynchings? Yeah, that's your team, the Democrats.

100 million + deaths under Stalin, Mao, Poi Pot? Yep, the Left again, in the guise of Socialism and Communism.

Hunger, disease, civil unrest, poverty, refugee crisis under Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela? Yep, your team again.

Similar thing in Greece? Again, your team.

Homeless / drug crisis in California? Your team.

Yet you want the rest of us to forget all the lessons learned in blood and let you guys do it again?

Sick.

[mkd]

but those states have small populations compared to the rest of the United States. A smaller population on average is also going to have a smaller group of mentally ill people.

Shouldn't it be the same proportionally? Or is life in a more diverse, more urban society more likely to produce mentally ill people?

It just seems so simple of a solution. I own a hand gun, but I don't desire to have an assault weapon.

What if your attacker has an assault weapon? Would you still only want a handgun? Honest question, I personally don't own any guns.

[401don]

What if your attacker has an assault weapon? Would you still only want a handgun? Honest question, I personally don't own any guns.

By that logic everything from grenades to surface-to-air missiles should be legal.

[Henry Whalley]

By that logic everything from grenades to surface-to-air missiles should be legal.

And nukes just strong enough for home protection IAW the castle doctrine.

[southen]

When millions pay with their lives, we shouldn't forget what caused it, and then try to repeat it as soon as possible. That's just plain stupid.

The Socialist left is responsible for most of the suffering and death in history. Slavery? lynchings? Yeah, that's your team, the Democrats.

100 million + deaths under Stalin, Mao, Poi Pot? Yep, the Left again, in the guise of Socialism and Communism.

Hunger, disease, civil unrest, poverty, refugee crisis under Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela? Yep, your team again.

Similar thing in Greece? Again, your team.

Homeless / drug crisis in California? Your team.

Yet you want the rest of us to forget all the lessons learned in blood and let you guys do it again?

Sick.

Quick question, was this shooting another false flag attack against the republicans? I just want to know how thick the tin foil hat is today before engaging.

Be careful Rocket, Richard thinks that diminishing ones opinion because it is different than yours spawns evil. This post might qualify as pretty evil.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

When millions pay with their lives, we shouldn't forget what caused it, and then try to repeat it as soon as possible. That's just plain stupid.

The Socialist left is responsible for most of the suffering and death in history. Slavery? lynchings? Yeah, that's your team, the Democrats.

100 million + deaths under Stalin, Mao, Poi Pot? Yep, the Left again, in the guise of Socialism and Communism.

Hunger, disease, civil unrest, poverty, refugee crisis under Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela? Yep, your team again.

Similar thing in Greece? Again, your team.

Homeless / drug crisis in California? Your team.

Yet you want the rest of us to forget all the lessons learned in blood and let you guys do it again?

Sick.

It’s so pathetic when RWNJ’s such as yourself blame “slavery and lynching” on Democrats. Last I checked, when the country was founded and we decided that slavery in the [[conservative) South was acceptable, there were no political parties here. And of course it’s sooooo easy to ignore what has happened when political realignment has occurred from time to time. Such as when Strom Thurmond and the other racist Dixiecrats decided that the GOP was a better home for them. We know which major party and its adherents continues to glorify the Confederacy today.