History to Parking Lots - Demolition begins on United Artists Theater

[401don]

The fact transit from suburban commuters is very low has a lot to do with it. The status quo seems to exist on those terms; demand for parking spots is high.

That's it in a nutshell. Most suburban residents in cities like Toronto and Chicago wouldn't think of driving downtown for a game or show.

[Richard]

The city needs to tax surface parking out of existence. Make it so expensive to operate a surface lot in the 7.2 that owners will see more value in developing, or selling to someone who will. That's really our only recourse to fix this.

You are the city,the city is not your boss,you do have a recourse,get involved,if you let the city run a fiefdom then all you become are plebs with no recourse.

The city does not exist without you, it’s not the other way around.

[56packman]

I was first in the UA in January of 1975, just before the Dumochelle auction. Everything was still in place. The carved lobby furniture, the light fixtures, projectors, the Wurlitzer pipe organ. It could have been reopened after a week’s cleaning. The next time I was in the building was in the early 90’s, the wood barriers that covered the front doors had fallen. Two friends and I went into the theatre at night, in the dead of winter. The basement was full of water, the stage floor had warped, and much of the ceiling had fallen to the floor. We could see stars in the sky through the holes in the ceiling/roof.
We knew then it was beyond saving.

[swingline]

From a preservation standpoint, the UA theater could have been saved. With enough money, almost any building can be restored, regardless of condition. What could not be saved was a business model for the venue, whether for-profit or non-profit. With no less than six 1k-4k capacity performance spaces located within one mile, what niche would the UA fill? Any model would almost certainly have to be non-profit and in that instance, after a $50 million restoration, the venue would likely need something on the order of a $50 million endowment to fund operations. A $100 million philanthropy effort for a performance venue in an already venue-saturated market? Sad as it is to lose a historic theater [albeit one that architecturally on its exterior only contributed a blank brick box], the greater harm to the city’s redevelopment is the approval by the City Planning Commission of the surface parking fronting Grand Circus park. This is just awful placemaking. As part of this project, Olympia Development should have been required to create some sort of building on the GCP frontage whether a small standalone building or a parking structure on the whole site with first floor retail.

[EastsideAl]

This is nothing less than an extreme act of civic and cultural vandalism.

In a just society the Ilitches and folks who currently run Olympia "Development" would be brought up on charges for what they're doing. But of course we don't live in anything like a just society.

[Richard]

The federal government owns 3/4 of Nevada,we spend billions each year preserving millions of acres of national lands and buildings that 99% of the population will never see or even hear about in their lifetime,but yet when it comes to something like this that could be used to encourage local youth in theater,it just becomes an old building that has outlived its usefulness and time to demolish it.

I am all for private enterprise and individual property rights but there are things that are a part of our national heritage and culture and when they are placed on the national register they should be eligible for federal funding.

placing buildings on the national register offers no protections so all it is,is a form of recognition before the bulldozer hits it.

I always have a hard time understanding how some buy a building knowing full well it’s significance to the history of the city and could really care less in the end,personally I would blame the current owner but the city has just as much of a responsibility to protect its history and culture for future generations.

But then again they gave up Belle isle at the drop of a dime so what’s another run down building demolition going to matter,cities are not supposed to be thinking in the here and now they are supposed to be thinking 10-20-50 years down the road and giving the future generations the same opportunity as there is today.

They wonder why there is little civic pride anymore but,do everything possible in order to wipe it out.

Saving and protecting historical and contributing structures in this country is like trying to break into Fort Knox,while other countries that were leveled during a war rebuilt entire cities.

It’s not that complicated,if you do not like historical buildings or contributing structures,do not buy them.

[Trumpeteer]

Richard you obviously haven't actually seen the significan improvement in Belle Isle since the state now is running it.

[Richard]

Richard you obviously haven't actually seen the significan improvement in Belle Isle since the state now is running it.

How it looked yesterday,how it looks today,how it will look tomorrow is irrelevant,many cities went through rough patches in their moment in time,they always came out on the the other side,they did not divest in the fabric because it was just a moment in time.

It is not uncommon for cities to sell bonds for public spaces,even more so spaces like Belle Isle because it presents so many opportunities for payback.

They could have just as easily came up with a plan and sold the bonds necessary to revamp the entire park all at once,it could have been completed years ago.

But they did not,wonder why?

Its no different then this,the systematic stripping of a city and all that it stands for,based on today.

[JonWylie]

From a preservation standpoint, the UA theater could have been saved. With enough money, almost any building can be restored, regardless of condition. What could not be saved was a business model for the venue, whether for-profit or non-profit. With no less than six 1k-4k capacity performance spaces located within one mile, what niche would the UA fill? Any model would almost certainly have to be non-profit and in that instance, after a $50 million restoration, the venue would likely need something on the order of a $50 million endowment to fund operations. A $100 million philanthropy effort for a performance venue in an already venue-saturated market? Sad as it is to lose a historic theater [albeit one that architecturally on its exterior only contributed a blank brick box], the greater harm to the city’s redevelopment is the approval by the City Planning Commission of the surface parking fronting Grand Circus park. This is just awful placemaking. As part of this project, Olympia Development should have been required to create some sort of building on the GCP frontage whether a small standalone building or a parking structure on the whole site with first floor retail.

Agree, agree, agree. This is the most realistic answer. The theater could have been saved, at a huge cost, but would likely have not found a profitable use at this point. But that doesn't absolve the City and Olympia from their mistakes on this lot, as well as others.

[Trumpeteer]

How it looked yesterday,how it looks today,how it will look tomorrow is irrelevant,many cities went through rough patches in their moment in time,they always came out on the the other side,they did not divest in the fabric because it was just a moment in time.

It is not uncommon for cities to sell bonds for public spaces,even more so spaces like Belle Isle because it presents so many opportunities for payback.

They could have just as easily came up with a plan and sold the bonds necessary to revamp the entire park all at once,it could have been completed years ago.

But they did not,wonder why?

Its no different then this,the systematic stripping of a city and all that it stands for,based on today.

Thank you for answering my specific comment that you've never stepped foot on Belle Isle

[313WX]

As long as the tower portion of the building remains, it's not that big of a loss.

[Richard]

Thank you for answering my specific comment that you've never stepped foot on Belle Isle

Thank you for providing an example of why it got to where it was,it was your responsibility to give me a reason to step foot in it

[Wesley Mouch]

Agree, agree, agree. This is the most realistic answer. The theater could have been saved, at a huge cost, but would likely have not found a profitable use at this point. But that doesn't absolve the City and Olympia from their mistakes on this lot, as well as others.

Building new is also wildly expensive. Auditoriums that size are valuable. We had one in the UA, and we could have seen it restored for less than new. Larger meeting rooms are valuable to hotels. The Los Angeles UA is associated with a hotel. It makes a lot of sense. Bye bye.

[Ray1936]

Good for you. The rest of us have still found this city compelling enough to live in or visit whenever we can.

Oh, I still go back to Motown on occasion, usually annually. You know, good old flat Detroit. As I have a love affair with mountains and desert, I'm quite happy with my current digs in LV. But I think fondly of Detroit and all of Michigan all the time. Always will.

[13606Cedargrove]

I am with Ray. We visit occasionally, and glad we do so, but it is not home anymore. Our life is here in Orange County, CA.

[masterblaster]

People will downplay or ignore you, but you make some great points below.

The long term goal would be to encourage others to do the same thing,you can see cookie cutter buildings and parking lots anywhere in the country.

It’s when a city gives up its character is when people lose interest, sometimes it is the little simple things like fixing a water fountain that makes a difference...

Every time you remove a piece of the history that defined Detroit's past you are changing it for the future while erasing the past, what is the future of Detroit because as it’s identity is being erased it is being replaced as a suburb wannabe...

Not to sound disrespectful but in a city of innovation the parking lots have the same appeal as half of the new buildings they are throwing up...

Its not the motor city no more, it’s not the music city anymore the only identity that is left is your roots as an international city that once was, and instead of capitalizing and building on that they keep destroying them and in the process losing your identity...

So what is the plan for Detroits future identity? It has to be one that compels people to move there.

[Trumpeteer]

Thank you for providing an example of why it got to where it was,it was your responsibility to give me a reason to step foot in it

That comment makes absolutely no sense.

[Richard]

That comment makes absolutely no sense.

Why? You posted it,you were there I was not,what did you do to help protect the future of the city? As a citizen it was your duty.

So let’s forget about the past,you cannot change what has already been done,but you can help preserve the future,do you plan on attending any council meetings to help that along?

[313WX]

I am with Ray. We visit occasionally, and glad we do so, but it is not home anymore. Our life is here in Orange County, CA.

Detroit will always be home in a way.

But I agree with where you and Ray are coming from.

[Pam]

United Artists Theatre - Old photos gallery — Historic Detroit

[Honky Tonk]

United Artists Theatre - Old photos gallery — Historic Detroit

Great link, Pam, Thanks.

[Trumpeteer]

Why? You posted it,you were there I was not,what did you do to help protect the future of the city? As a citizen it was your duty.

So let’s forget about the past,you cannot change what has already been done,but you can help preserve the future,do you plan on attending any council meetings to help that along?

Kind of difficult to do from 1,000 miles away.

[Dmberko11]

That comment makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah his English or lack thereof is giving me a migraine. Oof.

[Richard]

[QUOTE=Dmberko11;628878]Yeah his English or lack thereof is giving me a migraine. Oof.[/

Sounds like you might have a touch of victim mentality,you might want to see a doctor or a shrink if the internet bothers you that much.

You moved to Austin,you did not retire,you ran and left everybody else holding the bag,and now you are here supporting another poster who’s whole counter argument is based on somebody not living in Detroit.

Which was about as relevant as your migraine.

Sounds like bigger issues going on there then my posts triggering you.

I can imagine this was you on your first day in Austin

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDWzN6TW5Y

[Trumpeteer]

[QUOTE=Richard;628887]

Yeah his English or lack thereof is giving me a migraine. Oof.[/

Sounds like you might have a touch of victim mentality,you might want to see a doctor or a shrink if the internet bothers you that much.

You moved to Austin,you did not retire,you ran and left everybody else holding the bag,and now you are here supporting another poster who’s whole counter argument is based on somebody not living in Detroit.

Which was about as relevant as your migraine.

Sounds like bigger issues going on there then my posts triggering you.

I can imagine this was you on your first day in Austin

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDWzN6TW5Y

I NEVER said anything about you "not living in Detroit". I said you apparently had never been to Belle Isle. Keep it up Richard you're making a lot of friends here. Maybe find a DiscussFlorida site??