Half of Detroiters illiterate?

[Henry Whalley]

So, your school lunch program ain’t worth a dang at the end of the day, eh Richard?

Is there a Google Translator that goes from lunatic rant to plain English? Or is it like old joke, you can't get there from here?

[jcole]

Inner City really doesn't denote Blacks or any other ethnicity. It meant run down older neighborhoods where people lived in "projects" or other low income housing and the schools were usually older, as from the time that central cities were for the rich. New York, Chicago, Detroit all had "inner cities" and a lot of the residents were poorer whites, Hispanics, Blacks, Jews, etc. Read some lit from that time period or even watch "West Side Story".

[Richard]

Here is a count of African American residents in the city by zip code,21 out of 25 are 75% or higher,with 33% living in poverty,by definition a majority of the city is considered inner city.

http://zipatlas.com/us/mi/detroit/zi...population.htm

Yes inner city is not a geographical location and more so a byword used to describe a combination of circumstances.

I think there is a big difference in the inner city of the 50s verses the 70s and 80s with the advent of heroin and crack because in the 50s a majority of African Americans were home owners in Detroit,you can be at the poverty rate and still be a home owner,so economical status in that sense did not make them inner cities by default it was the drugs and crime that followed that turned them into inner cities by that definition.

The African Americans homeowners at that time still had personal wealth so it was not a lack of investment,they just became overwhelmed by bad forces beyond their control which created the inner city.

If white flight as it is called cause a lack of investment within the city itself then Detroit would have been bankrupt in 1960 because as a majority the African Americans that were left would have had to carry the financial legacy costs from a city that had a population of 1.8 million.

They as in a majority of African Americans were able to cover that,it was bad policies implemented that caused the problems,within the African American community in Detroit at that time they still had the highest personal wealth and homeownership rate in the entire country.

So it was not that they were African Americans living in poverty incapable of supporting a city and school system,it was the flooding of drugs and bad policies that created that mess.

Of those who have low English literacy skills, 35% are White, 2% of whom are born outside of the U.S.; 23% are Black, 3% of whom are born outside of the U.S.; 34% are Hispanic, 24% of whom are born outside of the U.S.; 8% are of other races/ethnicities. Non-U.S.-born adults comprise 34% of the U.S. population with low literacy skills.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...rates-by-state

Detroit and Michigan does not even make the top 10 in the country as highest illiteracy rate.

Detroit has a high African American population so it stands to reason that à larger percentage are considered illiterate,it’s a problem but not anywhere near of a problem when compared with other cities and states where the circumstances of advancement far outweigh those in Detroit.

[Henry Whalley]

Inner City really doesn't denote Blacks or any other ethnicity. It meant run down older neighborhoods where people lived in "projects" or other low income housing and the schools were usually older, as from the time that central cities were for the rich. New York, Chicago, Detroit all had "inner cities" and a lot of the residents were poorer whites, Hispanics, Blacks, Jews, etc. Read some lit from that time period or even watch "West Side Story".

Agreed. However, per Wikipedia '"inner city" is often used as a euphemism or dog-whistle to refer to an "area in which one or more racial, ethnic, or religious minorities reside, e.g., a black neighborhood. And to no one's surprise, that's the way Richard uses it.

[Henry Whalley]

...and the streetcar system had long been gutted.

Detroit's public transportation system [DSR] was superb before and after streetcars. Older buses were well-maintained, but most of the fleet was modern. Buses were clean, ran on schedule, and were safe even after dark. You may be too young to remember that.

[Henry Whalley]

Why do you think the riots that decade were so much more severe in Detroit?

More severe? I didn't say that.

[Richard]

Agreed. However, per Wikipedia '"inner city" is often used as a euphemism or dog-whistle to refer to an "area in which one or more racial, ethnic, or religious minorities reside, e.g., a black neighborhood. And to no one's surprise, that's the way Richard uses it.

I am not the one that try’s to showcase and over-blow issues in Detroit.

I am also not going to sidestep or sugar coat in order to appease,if you are looking to solve issues they need to be faced head on and dealt with,which encompasses everything in-between.

Why even bring a topic up if you only want to hear what you want to hear,you were the one that pressed down the path of inner cities,multiple times and then when you do not like the path you choose it becomes my fault.

Pretty much sums up why we are where we are at,55 years later and still spinning wheels in the same spot.

[Dumpling]

Education is one of the subject areas covered by Bridgemi.com.

Here is an opinion posted on Bridge Michigan about the need for a literacy lawsuit for the City of Detroit School System and the outcome of this lawsuit, written by one of the plaintiffs:

https://www.bridgemi.com/guest-comme...remains-equity

The plaintiff specifically compares Detroit Osborn High School to Grosse Pointe Schools.

A few posts back Jxixmxaxzx NIGHT_TIMER posted a link to a Dan Rather feature from 2012:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xypiZ-hqdY&t=1471s

Some of it follows one DPS student through several classes up through graduation. One of the issues brought out was that one of the classes started the school year with no textbooks. There was a textbook that was supposed to be distributed by the second day of class but as of one month into the school year it had not been distributed yet. A lack of textbooks was cited in the lawsuit.

If this happened in just one class per school that wouldn't be significant but a persistent lack of textbooks would contribute to an illiteracy problem.

Dan Rather's feature also included Robert Bobb, the former DPS Emergency Financial Manager [EFM]. If the first stated and acted upon goal of Bobb's tenure was to assert that each and every class started the school year with all of the necessary textbooks, that would have been accepted probably.

That's not what he is remembered for now. He is remembered for laying off all the teachers at the beginning of his time in office.

A more extensive summary of his [very unpopular] achievements is in this mlive article from 2011:

https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2...s_struggl.html

[Jimaz]

Is there a Google Translator that goes from lunatic rant to plain English? Or is it like old joke, you can't get there from here?

No, but you can translate the other way with The Dialectizer.

It translates English to Redneck, Jive, Cockney, Elmer Fudd, Swedish Chef, Moron, Pig Latin, Hacker or Censor.

[Henry Whalley]

No, but you can translate the other way with The Dialectizer.

It translates English to Redneck, Jive, Cockney, Elmer Fudd, Swedish Chef, Moron, Pig Latin, Hacker or Censor.

Richard must have his very own Dialectizer for sheer lunacy.

I try to avoid engaging with him. But I wanted to address his ludicrous claim about the decline of Detroit's public schools in the 1960s.

[313WX]

More severe? I didn't say that.

I never said you did.

*I* said the riots that decade were much more severe in Detroit.

That said, you didn't answer my question.

[Richard]

Richard must have his very own Dialectizer for sheer lunacy.

I try to avoid engaging with him. But I wanted to address his ludicrous claim about the decline of Detroit's public schools in the 1960s.

You started a thread and had no input into it,no answers or no solution.

You clearly have excess to the internet and are unable to do your own research,just as gullible to post a thread that reads 50% of Detroiters are illiterate when every other link in the web disputes that.

And to cheap to pay the $1 while calling everybody else a hack.

Some people will always be a part of the problem,but you seem to have some kind of fetish with Mr Finley,you act like you dislike him but yet obsessed with every opinion that he has to share.

[Henry Whalley]

I never said you did.

*I* said the riots that decade were much more severe in Detroit.

A more literate way to state it would be: I think the riots that decade were so much more severe in Detroit than elsewhere.

At any rate, 313WX, what's your evidence for thinking that?

[Henry Whalley]

That said, you didn't answer my question.

Excuse me, but I'm so confused by this thread. What's the question?

[canuck]

I am not the one that try’s to showcase and over-blow issues in Detroit.

I am also not going to sidestep or sugar coat in order to appease,if you are looking to solve issues they need to be faced head on and dealt with,which encompasses everything in-between.

Why even bring a topic up if you only want to hear what you want to hear,you were the one that pressed down the path of inner cities,multiple times and then when you do not like the path you choose it becomes my fault.

Pretty much sums up why we are where we are at,55 years later and still spinning wheels in the same spot.

So, Richard, if you take a long hard look at Florida, and what it learned from previous natural disasters; marshy soils, low levels, coastline exposition, etc… don’t you think building against the grain should have stopped by now?

[Henry Whalley]

What's the question?

Honestly, this thread has gone far afield. The original topic was illiteracy. Then it became about the quality of the city's public schools. Then it devolved into several of Richard's racist rants. Then the inner city. Then the riots, etc.

I'm going to educate myself about both illiteracy and the DPS before I comment any further here or maybe start a new thread -- uncontaminated with Richard's "thoughts" to use the term loosely.

I'm going to start by reading this book, which may or may not be a political polemic: The Rise and Fall of an Urban School System: Detroit, 1907-81, Second Edition [Ann Arbor Paperbacks] Paperback – September 21, 1999, by Jeffrey Mirel [Author].

[313WX]

A more literate way to state it would be:

What I said is factually correct.

In the 1960s, the riot in Detroit was the bloodiest and the worst in scale [[granted, it was only the 2nd most expensive, just barely). Look it up for yourself before trying to claim otherwise. I'm not doing your research.

And to re-phrase my question, don't you think the fact that Detroit was already experiencing population/economic decline by the 1960s [[contrary to your claim that it was "prosperous" city) was a contributing factor behind why the 1967 riot was so bad compared to the riots in other cities?

Yes, racism was part of what fueled the fire behind the riots that decade, but racism was everywhere and there had to be other unique circumstances in Detroit that caused its riot to be considerably more destructive/deadly.

Still waiting on your answer.

[Richard]

So, Richard, if you take a long hard look at Florida, and what it learned from previous natural disasters; marshy soils, low levels, coastline exposition, etc… don’t you think building against the grain should have stopped by now?

No different then Fiona that just slammed Canadas eastern seaboard and dropped houses into the ocean.

But the sands that were washed away will be deposited elsewhere building up that coastline and somebody will start building there and the cycle starts all over again.

That can apply anywhere,tornado alley,mid western flood plains,old rivers and creeks that cities filled in for development,build a city in the desert and worry about water later build a town in the woods that gets burned to the ground.

I think it is a constant cycle of us thinking we can make the planet adapt to us when it should be the other way around.

There are a few cities that have successfully done that.

Cause and effect,it’s no different then this subject of inner city school systems,we look to force things to adapt to us verses figuring out where and how it fits into the bigger picture of things.

Ft Meyers will be rebuilt just as Canadas eastern seaboard will be,because we like to win,it’s what we do,it does not have to make sense.

Then once in awhile Mother Nature will drop in and show us who really is in charge.

But I think we have a tendency to look at disasters as bad things when they are actually rejuvenating the plant in the process.

Forrest fires replenish the forests and provide a strong eco system.

The flood plains deposit rich nutrients into the soil that provides our food.

The constant changing coastlines evolve elsewhere and a new clean eco system is formed.

We as people just happen to be in the way when events happen.

Look at Venice Italy,it was built in a marsh in 421 AD as a way for the citizens to protect themselves from evading forces,back then they figured out how to adapt to their surroundings and not make it adapt to to them.

On a side note,the United States as a republic is based on the same form of government that Venice Italy formed in 421 AD,that’s what our founding fathers copied.