Hoo Boy 🤦 Ford cutting 8,000 salaried jobs

[Zacha341]

Toyota was originally Toyoda! Yet still unapologetically Japanese.

I get a chuckle out of folks forgetting that Nissan was once Datsun. I was early on purchasing compact Japanese cars after the horrors of owning a Chevette or two, but Datsun was never considered... just too tiny and narrow!

Sure there were the 280Z's, fast and fresh. But anyone remember this Datsun?

...Datsun changed the name to Nissan because they figured Datsun was to Japanese sounding.

[Rocket]

Old Scotty's on one re. Fords EV's.........

Ford's New Mavericks are Already Having Major Engine Problems

I sure hope this isn't true.

[And there's plenty of hope to believe it may not be. I've watched 4-5 of Scotty Kilmer's videos, and he's was out to lunch in all of them.]

Last I heard there were 3-4 recalls on the Maverick, none being engine related [as compared to 11 on the F150].

Some reports on forums of trans shuddering when switching into EV mode, but nothing that would warrant a DO Not Buy warning.

[Zacha341]

^ Yeah indeed Scotty can be koo-koo at times ! I've been purchasing used cars for decades before knowing of him. In some cases he affirms what I already know/ learned. Here, he references recalls that if true are made public and detailed ala the NTHSA. A consumer factor dealerships hate.

There's no excuse in buying a car 6-12 months out there sans reviewing. Even if you must sift thru the somewhat esoteric [Scotty] to other standard areas like Kelly Blue Book or others postings on youtube. And talking to mechanics. They know the problematic tinker-mobiles vs the strong runners.

Yet I have friends n' family who walk right in EYES WIDE SHUT for new and used cars that have tons of info citing problems... and recalls.

But they want THAT particular car so they go forth. Then find out.

Having said all of that, I don't think tight craftsmanship and engineering when I think Ford. Especially at the used level where I purchase. And when he mentioned EV fire hazard that really got my attention.

[oladub]

EV's have many fewer parts so not as many production workers are needed. Until about 2026, Ford will import Chinese batteries.

[Richard]

^ as rule we are a gullible bunch

Ford borrowed $5.937 billion under the ATVM Loan Program. Ford still hasn’t paid that back.

• As of today, Ford has had a total of at least $33,489,841,570 [[$33.49 billion) in subsidies awarded.

So we give them and others billions of dollars,then offer $7500 to $12,000 in incentives in order to bribe people into buying their cars and what do we get in return?

Lost jobs and China gets the business.

“I want those jobs here in Michigan, not halfway around the globe,” Biden said when visiting a UAW job training center last month.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy...ctric-vehicles

How’s that working out for Michigan,your representative should be having a fit over the job loss that will only escalate,o wait she was to busy getting arrested for breaking the law instead of actually looking out for her constituents.

Because she could not be bother to protest without blocking the streets,I could have sworn recently there was a big hub bub about protesters blocking the streets where an entire country was stripped of their civil rights for doing the exact same thing and another governor called people Nazis for disrupting commence that cost billions,for doing the exact same thing.

Remember Ford already cut 580 back in April to offset Rivian losses.

They are cutting salary workers,engineers,marketing,development etc.

Which is at the higher end of the wage scale,which in turn lowers the average wage of a given region and they relocate to another state in order to find work.

China is happy though.

I think if I live long enough to buy an EV,I am going to skip the middle man,Ford and the American workers and just buy direct from China,it will probably be 1/2 the price anyways and their slave labor can use the money .

People are so desperate to save the planet,that they are not even saving in the process,that they are willing to throw their neighbors under the bus in that quest.

Not only willing to throw them under the bus,but send their paychecks to a country whose sole intent is to destroy our way of life.

News flash - China does not give a rats behind about your cause,so why bend over backwards to support theirs?

[oladub]

I wondered if batteries will become the entrance point of the Chinese auto industry into the US. I realize that some Buick engines, one model of a Buick and various auto parts already come from China. However, the actual sales of Chinese autos into the US market has been restrained. With Ford going electric and China providing Ford its batteries until about 2026, I wondered what percentage of an EV's cost was attributal to batteries. Google says 15%. Production costs are different than sales cost which includes profit, sales, front office costs and other things not related to actual production. "One year ago, the average lithium-ion battery pack cost between $147 and $153 per kilowatt hour to make, which accounts for around 30-40 percent of the total cost to produce an EV." So yes, Chinese batteries will constitute a huge portion of the sales of Chinese auto products in the US at least until other possible supplies of lithium or substitutes can be developed. In 2026, a Korean company will help Ford build batteries in the US. That will at least cut out some Chinese labor costs.

[Richard]

I am not opposed to EVs,technology has always moved this country forward,I am opposed to the way they are going about it,every time they do these social experiments there are generations that are lost in the wake.

You cannot change 150 years of advancement in the fossil fuel industry and all that surrounds it in 3 years or even 10 years without throwing millions into the ditch in the process .

What makes it even worse is they have already recognized that and have said,people need to suck it up and deal with it.

The ones saying that, it is not going to effect them or their families outside of beefed up stock portfolios.

Telling that family that is just trying to feed their kids to suck it up because you are saving the planet is little consolation,now their kids will go in with the possibility of not enough funds to get a better education.

So that is yet another generation lost in the process.

This all could have been phased in with minimal impact,it’s not going to kill the planet in the two years if that,that it would take for manufacturers to build their battery plants in this country.

The irony is in the rush to implement save the planet policies they are massively increasing the amount of pollution and looking the other way when it comes to the way the required minerals are mined,so in the process they are actually increasing exactly what they are trying to decrease.

Or speeding up the destruction to the planet in the process while increasing the human destruction on the personal level.

What are we trying to save and from whom?

But they have also admitted,it is not really about saving the planet and more about creating opportunities in advanced fields,but at what cost and the reality is those fields require a lower employment base then what they are replacing.

Ford did not build 20,000 model As then say,now I need a workforce to build them,he built a factory then installed a line for efficiency then hired and trained the workforce produce them.

Now it is the opposite,throw 20,000 EVs out there with no supporting infrastructure then worry about that after the fact and say it is critical you provide that after the fact,then on top of that,in order to fill that need,everything comes from somewhere else that benefits everybody else but the ones you are going to sell your product to.

Ford did not offer the $5 a day pay in order to attract employees,he did it só the employees could afford the product they were building which in turn increased sales and profits.

If you fire all of your workforce while importing all of your products,who is left to buy what you are selling?

[artds]

Ford will boost EV spending from $30B to $50B. Slashing 8000 jobs [[lets say average salary is $80K) saves you $640M. Even if you consider all the other costs associated with those employees, it might save you a couple billion, maybe??? Pretty BIG gap to get to that $50B number when Farley states that workforce reduction will be the primary driver of cost savings.

Ok but it's not a one-time savings...it's a couple billion every 12 months, or roughly $20 billion over 10 years. Not insignificant.

[Richard]

Considering the size of their workforce it is only the start.

No mention of re-training the existing workforce in oder to fold them into EV production,so they have already calculated the size of the workforce required for the EV division.

The legacy cost is still there,I still think the big 2.5 are going to have a tough time competing in the future verses the newcomers who will be entering the market with a clean slate.

Separate division or not they are still going into it with a fixed cost that exceeds the start up costs of a new player.

I am not sure the region really comprehends what all of this is going to do long term when it is still so auto eccentric based.

It may be a bad case of be careful of what you wish for.

Can you really have 20 different models of an EV,even with GM they are not going to have to retain that line of brands,what is the difference between a Buick EV and an Oldsmobile EV,It’s just going to be a GM with a few variations,it will not be brand loyal Buick buyers because it is a Buick because there will be 50 different variations from the competition.

Once the basic EV platform is established,anybody can make a body to stick on it,just like back in the day when automobiles were first established.

It’s like the Wild West all over again but with EVs instead of horses.

[oladub]

That word "salaried" is sinking in. EV's have batteries and electric motors. The motors are much smaller and have fewer parts than ICE engines and there are no exhaust systems or transmissions. China is making Ford batteries for now so there will be a huge reduction in manufacturing jobs as EVs replace ICE engines. Many fewer salaried employees will be required to manage a sharply reduced manufacturing force and keep track of fewer components going forward. A lot of employees will have their pensions reduced or eliminated. This last item could explain much of the savings. Still, it seems like the massive layoff of salaried workers is too abrupt. It will be a decade before half of new cars sold will be EVs. Could Ford be anticipating an imminent bad recession? Other companies are not doing the same so that is probably not it.

[Richard]

That is where it becomes foggy with intent.

Lots of corporations have been having hiring freezes and layoffs across all sectors,Tesla laid off and has a hiring freeze,same with other tech companies,mortgage companies laying off thousands.

Starbucks closing low performing locations along with other major retailers,inventory levels are low because companies do not want to be stuck with warehouses full of stock,Wal-Mart is pausing their home delivery services and pick up services because they do not want to be stuck with the massive amount of warehouse storage that is required.

I am an uneducated idiot and even I saw what was coming 1 year ago and cashed out high dollar stuff in order to carry through,even borrowing in order to build a rental apartment in order to increase cash flow to offset losses.

Most people still spending like drunk sailors are doing so with credit cards and because of the drought food and energy costs are going to escalate in the fall early winter,food is going to be a big problem.

A lot of corporations are positioning themselves and shedding overhead,jobs,not for what is happening today but for what they anticipate will happen in 6 months.

At the current levels nothing is really stable long term or sustainable,once the COVID windfalls that cities and states are enjoying now work their way through the system,they are going to be in a pinch.

Where I am at and many other locals across the country even rents have increased from $1500 to $2500.

The feds have to raise interest rates in order to slow everything down so they can keep inflation somewhat in check,that increases the mortgage and cost of borrowing money by alot.

The only unknown is if we just crash or slowly slide into a recession,more so that we have already been in.

Ford could very well be using this as a way to shed the workforce under the guise of EV conversion.

Because we all know full well if there is a change of politics and federal funding for the EVs,it all comes crashing down.

GM already stated that without federal funding there is no 2030 goal,Manchin killed the policy that would have sent billions to the manufacturers in incentives and flat out grants.

That makes green dead for at least the next 2 years and possibly 6 depending on who takes the whitehouse in 2024.

We already saw that with solar and wind farms across the world,as soon as the winds of politics changes and governments stop the incentives,it all dies on the vine.

A lot of European countries are firing up their coal plants again,they are going to be more worried about heating homes and electricity today then green tomorrow because it is not there today to help them.

Most can care less about EVs of the future when they are struggling hand to mouth today,the layoffs are just another layer piled on top,it’s like a circle of chairs,most companies are positioning now so they make sure they still a seat when the dust settles verses increasing stock value.

Historically it’s time for that 10 year cycle for a recession,stash cash while you can,dump debt,those who do will come out the other side okay,those that do not will be hurting for many years after that,just like always.

[detmsp]

You keep thinking everybody’s life should mimic yours.

And then you went on to write something to the effect of "it might not have been a thing in Detroit, and maybe it's not on google, but my uncle had one, so let me ridicule you for not having heard of it!"

[Richard]

And then you went on to write something to the effect of "it might not have been a thing in Detroit, and maybe it's not on google, but my uncle had one, so let me ridicule you for not having heard of it!"

The thread is there to read,I did not ridicule anybody,I made the post and others jumped in as usual saying the bumper stickers did not exist because they did not see them and could not find them in Google.

It could have very well have been a thing in Detroit and most posting was not paying attention,sense it hit Detroit the hardest one would figure people would more in tune with what was happening back then,this whole were old enough anyways.

[Gistok]

The thread is there to read,I did not ridicule anybody,I made the post and others jumped in as usual saying the bumper stickers did not exist because they did not see them and could not find them in Google.

It could have very well have been a thing in Detroit and most posting was not paying attention,sense it hit Detroit the hardest one would figure people would more in tune with what was happening back then,this whole were old enough anyways.

"Sense" it makes no "since" to listen to your word salad Richard! How can educated people on this forum take you seriously, and agree that you are right, and we [who actually LIVE here] must all have been not paying attention back in the 1970s...

And besides your horrible use of punctuation and homonyms, now you're leaving out nouns and verbs in your above comments. Of course people will look at you with derision, when you denigrate others, but do so with incomplete grammar.

[Richard]

^ actually if you want to be technical about it all nobody “listens” to a post ,they “read” a post.

Let me guess,not only does Detroit have special gas stations that nobody else in the world does,it has newspapers in print that reads the news to you like a Siri out loud...

You keep mentioning logic,did they ever program you on how to apply it?

I hope you are not including yourself in that educated group because you constantly prove you have no interest in continuing your education,which is the very basics of an education.

Thats the difference,I do not claim to be somebody I am not.

[Richard]

Stellantis NV says it will be laying off an undisclosed number of employees at its Windsor and Brampton auto assembly plants in Ontario as part of a push for operational efficiencies in its transition to become a "mobility tech company."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...b3f1b129329f5c

They are not disclosing how many,but these are hourly workers verses salary workers that Ford is laying off.

The Belvidere Auto Assembly Plant in Belvidere, Illinois, which had close to 5,000 workers in 2019, now has less than 1,500 and recently announced plans to eliminate more jobs in May, according to the Rockford Register Star.


This was Fords projections back in 2018

• Making a full commitment to new propulsion choices, including adding hybrid-electric powertrains to high-volume, profitable vehicles like the F-150, Mustang, Explorer, Escape and Bronco. The company’s battery electric vehicle rollout starts in 2020 with a performance utility, and it will bring 16 battery-electric vehicles to market by 2022.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...financials.pdf

Depends how you read it - 16 vehicles by 2022 or 16 different models?

They have 4 ?

[oladub]

I thought that a Korean company was going to make Ford batteries in the US beginning in 2026 but...

"A giant Chinese supplier of electric vehicle batteries decided to push back announcing a multibillion-dollar North American plant to supply Tesla Inc. and Ford Motor Co. due to tensions raised by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s trip to Taiwan, according to people familiar with the matter.

Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd., the world’s biggest maker of batteries for electric vehicles, has been considering at least two locations in Mexico near the Texas border, as well as sites in the U.S., for the plant. China’s CATL has been in an advanced stage of site selection and negotiating incentives, in anticipation of announcing its selection in the coming weeks." - https://www.ttnews.com/articles/pelo...ry-plant-plans

[Richard]

I am not even minutely a fan of Pelosi,but she did what she needed to do,she had more cahonees to do what half of the other sniveling morons were to scared to do.

Screw the Chinese.

Ford can step back,take a deep breath and build its own battery factories on U.S. soil while employing U.S worker while building U.S built cars,if I wanted a Chinese car,I would order one from China at half the price that Ford can build one for.

Now that they have 8000 workers laying about,concrete is easy enough to pour and concrete blocks are easy enough to throw up.

You know a few years down the road it will be Ford idles factory’s and sidelines 10,000 workers due to a slowdown of Chinese built batteries.

I do not trust the Chinese,they will be hiding tracking devices or small explosive detonators in the batteries.

[Gistok]

Wow... although it's spelled 'kahunas' [I had to look that one up], I actually agree with everything you said Richard...

[Richard]

the Hawaii version
The meaning of KAHUNA is a preeminent person or thing

The Spanish version,granted I also spelt it wrong

cojones

[[redirected from Cahonies)Related to Cahonies: Cojones, Cajones


Which references those two things that those who identify as a male have between their legs.

[Baselinepunk]

"I don't think he's young... I was around then, as was he... and I don't recall ever seeing one of those bumper stickers? Was that maybe a Florida thingy?'

He's full of crap. Decades of "Slug Bug" since the early 70s driving all over the Great Lakes region, never saw a bumper sticker that said that.

[jcole]

It's actually "cajones" or balls.

Wow... although it's spelled 'kahunas' [I had to look that one up], I actually agree with everything you said Richard...

[Richard]

It's actually "cajones" or balls.

ya will have to give him a few days in order to recover from agreeing with me,before a response.

[Zacha341]

Hah! If that Korean company is related to Kia [Hundai], I'd be checking their quality controls as Kia cars have many recalls and engine/ tranny problems.

Re. China anything, Ford et al best pump those brakes for sure! For sure this is not a good time for technology ventures with China considering that mumbly-peg Pelosi visit to Taiwan, yet the increasing showcase of our our weakness after the 'rubber' saber-rattling. Very little is useful for negotiations.

China holds the cards on so many levels - still yet to be revealed. All they have to do for example is pull their medical supplies and much of our healthcare system is disrupted. We DON'T need their production of batteries too!

I thought that a Korean company was going to make Ford batteries in the US beginning in 2026 but...

"A giant Chinese supplier of electric vehicle batteries decided to push back announcing a multibillion-dollar North American plant to supply Tesla Inc. and Ford Motor Co. due to tensions raised by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s trip to Taiwan, according to people familiar with the matter.

Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd., the world’s biggest maker of batteries for electric vehicles, has been considering at least two locations in Mexico near the Texas border, as well as sites in the U.S., for the plant. China’s CATL has been in an advanced stage of site selection and negotiating incentives, in anticipation of announcing its selection in the coming weeks." - https://www.ttnews.com/articles/pelo...ry-plant-plans

[Dan Wesson]

China holds the cards on so many levels - still yet to be revealed. All they have to do for example is pull their medical supplies and our much of our healthcare system is disrupted. We DON'T need their production of batteries too!

this is a well done netflix documentary...



a true enlightenment on clash of cultures

american factory @ netflix