Car Museum

[Jerry Van]

The Ford Piquette museum only have antique Fords.

Not true. Yes, there are primarily Fords, but also Overland, EMF, Studebaker, Cadillac & Regal. All but the Overland are cars produced in the Milwaukee Junction area, [[where the Piquette Plant is located). Plus, there is an extremely rare, complete "set" of Ford "Alphabet Cars". The Alphabet cars, as they are sometimes known, are Models A, B, C, F, K, N, R, S & T, spanning the years 1903 - 1909. The Model B being the rarest, with maybe 5 left in existance.

[ABetterDetroit]

This thread speaks volumes to the demographic that gets excited about car museums. Old men, just like some of the posters here, they would love another auto museum. The reality is that is a piss poor demo for marketing. Few target it with the exception of viagra and other various medications. If anyone in Detroit wants to build a new ‘destination’ attraction if must have a strong appeal to young to middle age people with children. That is where the money is. I would vote for the aquarium. They are extremely popular.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Ditto on that. Love the Atlanta aquarium!

[401don]

This thread speaks volumes to the demographic that gets excited about car museums. Old men, just like some of the posters here, they would love another auto museum. The reality is that is a piss poor demo for marketing. Few target it with the exception of viagra and other various medications. If anyone in Detroit wants to build a new ‘destination’ attraction if must have a strong appeal to young to middle age people with children. That is where the money is. I would vote for the aquarium. They are extremely popular.

Well, I'm in my 60's, was the 1st to post a reply to this thread, and pretty much said exactly that. Aquariums are a proven attraction, I'll give you that, but if you think other museums are expensive to operate, wait until you see the deficits aquariums ring up. It would be great if they could come up with something unique. Nobody is going to come to see the aquarium outside Michigan any more than they come for the casinos when they are in every city now.

[ABetterDetroit]

Well, I'm in my 60's, was the 1st to post a reply to this thread, and pretty much said exactly that. Aquariums are a proven attraction, I'll give you that, but if you think other museums are expensive to operate, wait until you see the deficits aquariums ring up. It would be great if they could come up with something unique. Nobody is going to come to see the aquarium outside Michigan any more than they come for the casinos when they are in every city now.

I agree “something unique” with large appeal to families with children would be fantastic, simpler said then done though. If that was low hanging fruit their would be a lot more new for profit attractions in or near major population centers.

As far as a Detroit aquarium ‘nobody is going to come from outside Michigan’ we will have to disagree. Detroit is not that far from the populated state of Ohio as well as your home turf in Canada. Besides those facts frankly, Detroit needs to become more attractive to Michiganders. We have lost out on a lot of long weekend tourism money to Chicago over the years. Obviously, the only way aquariums get built anywhere outside Disney is with philanthropic dollars.

[Gistok]

I agree “something unique” with large appeal to families with children would be fantastic, simpler said then done though. If that was low hanging fruit their would be a lot more new for profit attractions in or near major population centers.

As far as a Detroit aquarium ‘nobody is going to come from outside Michigan’ we will have to disagree. Detroit is not that far from the populated state of Ohio as well as your home turf in Canada. Besides those facts frankly, Detroit needs to become more attractive to Michiganders. We have lost out on a lot of long weekend tourism money to Chicago over the years. Obviously, the only way aquariums get built anywhere outside Disney is with philanthropic dollars.

I agree... the point I was trying to make is that we were already "over Auto'ed". Good point about finding Detroit a niche for being a destination location.

While an aquarium wouldn't totally fill that niche, it would certainly help. However... a "Great Lakes" freshwater aquarium is kind of boring. There just aren't enough Great Lakes species to add any wow factor to us having a world class aquarium. It could have to have a Great Lakes component, and also a saltwater component, since all the really cool aquarium species are saltwater.

And your point about philanthropic money should remind us that the Ralph Wilson Foundation is cash rich in recreational and educational funds that MUST be spent [between Detroit & Buffalo] over the next 20 years. I don't recall seeing any donations from that fund to anything major in Detroit since 2018, when the West Riverfront park was funded. They are due for a major project, since the Foundation is only supposed to have a 20 year lifespan.

If they've not funded anything major since 2018... the Foundation probably has investments that sent the total fund back up to its' initial $1.2 billion, and they are long overdue for spending on some big ticket Detroit projects... such as a world class aquarium.

[SFDS]

All things are worth investigating. I think an Aquarium and yet another car museum is a very heavy lift. Here some basics on one of the more famous aquariums in the country, which I have visited in the past: https://www.presstelegram.com/2021/0...ide-reopening/

Also depending on philanthropy on a forever basis will be a tough sell and unrealistic on an ongoing basis... you have to continually "Feed the Beast".

I think building on and leveraging our strengths is better, like the example of the DIA and the current auto design exhibit.

A strong, expanded Motown Museum deploying existing exhibits, like the Motown Exhibit displayed at The Ford in the past great interactive exhibits could be redeployed to a wide visitor audience.

DIA, African American Museum, Historical Museum, The Henry Ford Complex, & Auto Tours, Motown Museum, Belle Isle +, Auto Baron Estates, DSO, Pewabic...put the energy, time and limited resources into these gems. Expand programming, demographics, and fresh ideas.

As I said all things are worth exploring.

[Richard]

All things are worth investigating. I think an Aquarium and yet another car museum is a very heavy lift. Here some basics on one of the more famous aquariums in the country, which I have visited in the past: https://www.presstelegram.com/2021/0...ide-reopening/

Also depending on philanthropy on a forever basis will be a tough sell and unrealistic on an ongoing basis... you have to continually "Feed the Beast".

I think building on and leveraging our strengths is better, like the example of the DIA and the current auto design exhibit.

A strong, expanded Motown Museum deploying existing exhibits, like the Motown Exhibit displayed at The Ford in the past great interactive exhibits could be redeployed to a wide visitor audience.

DIA, African American Museum, Historical Museum, The Henry Ford Complex, & Auto Tours, Motown Museum, Belle Isle +, Auto Baron Estates, DSO, Pewabic...put the energy, time and limited resources into these gems. Expand programming, demographics, and fresh ideas.

As I said all things are worth exploring.

Not sure why everybody keeps looking for ways to not make things happen.

I guess no matter how it is explained people just do not understand that when it comes to tourism bed taxes collected pays the costs.

Philanthropy has zero to do with it,unless you are having issues with the private museums trying to control the market.

2019

City of Detroit had a 69% hotel occupancy rate
The average nightly stay at $171
Bed tax rate 15%

You bed tax rate is .33% lower then New York City

The average nightly hotel rate in the United States $103

Those numbers were from 2019

So you are a city with 1/2 the population,but has the highest adverage nightly room rental rates in the country,collecting one of the highest bed tax rates in the country but funding,from what is posted here,a 1/3 of what the other major cities are offering.

I think the first step,before even funding a tourist taco stand in the corner,would be to find out where the millions that are already being collected is actually going.

Orlando collects a 12% bed tax,Detroit collects a 15% bed tax,a $4500 difference if a company wants to do a corporate visit to Detroit verses Orlando.

In short you are already collecting tourism based revenue equal to cities twice your size while providing the minimum amount of tourist available options.

By the accounts posted here,the ones that have been listed,are philanthropic based,kinda makes one wonder where the money is actually going.

It makes it hard to figure out where you want to be,if you do not know where you are at.

I am thinking one of the best kept secrets in COD is how much revenue is collected at that 15% and where is it spent,and who makes the decision on where it is spent.

Anybody read Pure Michigan’s winter tourism target cities?

Northeast cities only that are in direct competition with Detroit,so you are competing with 25 other cities.

You know What is funny in Florida?

You can go to the flea market and buy,snow skis,snow boards even snow blowers,heck you can even find 1000 people a day moving here from up north that spent their lifetime enjoying those activities.

But what you cannot find is somebody saying - pssst come up here and check us out and put those snow skis to work.

[ABetterDetroit]

Not sure why everybody keeps looking for ways to not make things happen.

I guess no matter how it is explained people just do not understand that when it comes to tourism bed taxes collected pays the costs.

Philanthropy has zero to do with it,unless you are having issues with the private museums trying to control the market.

2019

City of Detroit had a 69% hotel occupancy rate
The average nightly stay at $171
Bed tax rate 15%

You bed tax rate is .33% lower then New York City

The average nightly hotel rate in the United States $103

Those numbers were from 2019

So you are a city with 1/2 the population,but has the highest adverage nightly room rental rates in the country,collecting one of the highest bed tax rates in the country but funding,from what is posted here,a 1/3 of what the other major cities are offering.

I think the first step,before even funding a tourist taco stand in the corner,would be to find out where the millions that are already being collected is actually going.

Orlando collects a 12% bed tax,Detroit collects a 15% bed tax,a $4500 difference if a company wants to do a corporate visit to Detroit verses Orlando.

In short you are already collecting tourism based revenue equal to cities twice your size while providing the minimum amount of tourist available options.

By the accounts posted here,the ones that have been listed,are philanthropic based,kinda makes one wonder where the money is actually going.

It makes it hard to figure out where you want to be,if you do not know where you are at.

I am thinking one of the best kept secrets in COD is how much revenue is collected at that 15% and where is it spent,and who makes the decision on where it is spent.

Anybody read Pure Michigan’s winter tourism target cities?

Northeast cities only that are in direct competition with Detroit,so you are competing with 25 other cities.

You know What is funny in Florida?

You can go to the flea market and buy,snow skis,snow boards even snow blowers,heck you can even find 1000 people a day moving here from up north that spent their lifetime enjoying those activities.

But what you cannot find is somebody saying - pssst come up here and check us out and put those snow skis to work.

The discussion was debating between Aquarium and a car museum. Not difficult to comprehend. This is how the largest Aquarium in America was built with Philanthropy.

https://philanthropynewsdigest.org/n...ium-in-atlanta

When you actually do leave your computer where you are constantly posting to a board about a city you have never even visited do you have fun arguing with everyone else in the nursing home? I bet you are their favorite. ☹️

[Richard]

The discussion was debating between Aquarium and a car museum. Not difficult to comprehend. This is how the largest Aquarium in America was built with Philanthropy.

https://philanthropynewsdigest.org/n...ium-in-atlanta

When you actually do leave your computer where you are constantly posting to a board about a city you have never even visited do you have fun arguing with everyone else in the nursing home? I bet you are their favorite. ☹️

Well let me put it this way sense you seem to like talking shit,no I have never been to Detroit,but I have a vested interest in it amongst others,we get paid either way,either by increasing your base taxes or by increase city revenues not tax based.

The prudent thing to do would be to increase revenues while decreasing the tax burden on an already overtaxed citizenship,but hey what do I know,I have never been there.

Play stupid games you win stupid prizes,you do not have the money for a museum or an aquarium in your back pocket,so why even discuss it,if you are not even interested in how to move it forward.

You guys keep spreading this message of if you have not been to Detroit you have zero to say about it.

Funny thing is,I never saw you with checkbook in hand after the bankruptcy,but there were a hell of a lot of others that had also not been to the city before,but no surprise,all talk and zero action.

Zero action until it came to advocating giving away city assets when it was not necessary.

Bonds paid to restore basic services and helped pay the bills until solid leadership got the ball rolling,they can also be used for infrastructure like mass transit,and funding things like museums and aquariums,they help pay for stuff no different then if you go to the bank and buy a car,in theses cases you use them to fund stuff where your payment is lower then your revenue intake.

I did not put that in there for your benefit,clearly you could care less,but there are others that do care,so just ignore that part.

It is people like you that make it so others cannot get things done in the city.

Reread the op - it had zero to do with an aquarium like you used as your crutch of a post - it was a forward thinking post by a forward thinking citizen looking for ways to make their city a better place to live by creating diversity in the economy.

Its a city of two halves,one half is working hard everyday to make it a better place,while the other half is like a ball and chain holding them back


It is clear where you fit into that,how come you cannot just get out of the way of those trying to move forward? What can you possibly gain in taking the stance that you do?

You think you are all the shit now while talking crap about old folks in nursing homes,you will be there one day also,but with that attitude,I kinda doubt it.

I put my money where my mouth is,you just come on the internet anonymously and talk crap,I would be embarrassed to post under my real name if I was like you also.

You cannot even comprehend two simple words.

Car Museum,can’t miss it,it is right there at the top.

You live there,surly you can pay for it or figure out how to make it happen better then somebody that does not,right ? Smart guy?

Let me guess,you are going to just sit around while everybody else does the heavy lifting,then expect to reap the rewards,because they owe you something because you exist there.

[Gistok]

Richard... which Pure Michigan commercials are you watching??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tJaRrZZMs

[Richard]

^ that one was funny.

on that subject of horses and sleighs

I wish everybody has a safe and merry Christmas

[IrishSpartan]

Richard, I believe you've not been to metro Detroit...

But The Henry Ford... [Henry Ford Museum & Greenfield Village] is the largest indoor/outdoor museum in the country, and 2nd only to the Smithsonian when it comes to Americana.

It pretty much sucks much of the visitor dollars from people wanting to see history here in Detroit.

Besides being the premier museum of American innovation, it has a vast collection of cars, airplanes, trains, machinery. It also includes such historic items as the limo in which President Kennedy was assassinated, the Ford Theatre Chair in which Lincoln was assassinated in, the Rosa Parks Bus... and everything imaginable of historic Americana.

And in the Greenfield Village area next door it has [on a scale reminiscent of Colonial Williamsburg] a vast village of historic relocated buildings, such as Thomas Edison's entire Menlo Park NJ complex, Lincoln's Logan County Courthouse, Wright Brothers Home and Cycle Shop, Firestone Farm, and nearly 100 other famous buildings that were all relocated here. Henry Ford even attempted to buy Independence Hall in the early 20th Century, but was denied... so he built a facsimile as the Museum front.

Detroit really does have 2 world class museums in the Detroit Institute of Arts and The Henry Ford. Nothing else here comes close...

P.S. Hotel and [by the glass] liquor taxes already are paying for the last expansion of Detroit's Convention Center.

Actually, a common complaint I've heard about Henry Ford Museum among visitors from outside of town is that it is lacking in Ford automobiles. A number of tourists in addition to what they heard is already there expect to see a large number of Ford automobiles from all through the years. Basically, an Auburn Cord Duesenberg type of collection of Ford, Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln within the entire Henry Museum collection displayed. Of course, that would require a massive expansion that isn't realistic.

Actually, the Detroit area never really had an Auburn Cord Duesenberg caliber car museum. I think the time has passed for various reasons as enumerated in some other posts including the ever important financial support. However, I have heard the Gilmore Car Museum in the Kalamazoo area has an impressive collection.

Since Detroit has bee notorious over the years for destroying its past the fact the city never had a real world class museum that focused exclusively on automobiles isn't probably that surprising. Selling the new metal of that particular model year should be celebrated for more than the old metal of yesterday, which won't continue to generate profit for the respective auto companies. Besides, I think Henry Ford Museum was thought of as more than adequate. The quality of what they have in terms of on display in terms of historical value is impressive. The volume of cars they have on display is probably lacking for a museum so interwoven with Ford Motor Company.

[stasu1213]

This thread speaks volumes to the demographic that gets excited about car museums. Old men, just like some of the posters here, they would love another auto museum. The reality is that is a piss poor demo for marketing. Few target it with the exception of viagra and other various medications. If anyone in Detroit wants to build a new ‘destination’ attraction if must have a strong appeal to young to middle age people with children. That is where the money is. I would vote for the aquarium. They are extremely popular.

So the Dream Cruise only attract farty old men? I beg to differ. Many younger people would come to a museum filled with GM, Mopar,and Ford cars of the 50s and 60s including muscle cars

[Jerry Van]

This thread speaks volumes to the demographic that gets excited about car museums. Old men, just like some of the posters here, they would love another auto museum. The reality is that is a piss poor demo for marketing. Few target it with the exception of viagra and other various medications. If anyone in Detroit wants to build a new ‘destination’ attraction if must have a strong appeal to young to middle age people with children. That is where the money is. I would vote for the aquarium. They are extremely popular.

You really don't know what you're talking about. You are drawing on stereotypes of what you perceive are car fans. The demographic that visits Piquette are loads of school children, [[pre-covid anyway), young families, and tons of young people from all over the world. I personally gave a tour to a group of twenty-somethings from China.

[DetroitSoldier]

Do not underestimate how much interest there would be in having the foremost automobile museum in the nation, in the very hub of an inustry that employs millions from coast to coast. It would appeal to car enthusiasts, engineers, kids, and families.

But the reality is that absolutely none of that would be possible without the collaboration of the Big 3 and sveral prominent private collectors. The reason there are hundreds of car museums around the country is because they are a lucrative business. There would not be so many of the money wasn't there to support them.

That said. there is not a snowball's chance in hell of this ever happening. I mean for crying out loud, GM rarely even lets the public into their own autimotive heritage center in Sterling Heights.

[Richard]

Sometimes people set their sites to low,how come you cannot have a world class automobile museum and a world class aquarium?

Detroit became a world class city before by pushing the boundaries,not by settling for less,that is kinda defeatist.

I think the automotive museum aspect is going to increase in demand,why?

Because when I was a kid and going to car shows and swap meets it was brass era pre 1940s dominating,now it is 1950s -1970s dominated,those vehicles will never be reproduced again and in the future who is going to pay money to see a pristine 2005 Honda Accord or even a 2020 Chevrolet Silverado?

You can take a brass era Packard and put it next to a Picasso and they are both works of art ,to most the automobile story stopped being defined after 1970.

Outside of a few all they are anymore is just a mode of blasa transportation that gets you from point A to B with a few electronic gadget do dads thrown in for those who expect less.

How many have a Pierce Arrow or a 1929 Packard Sport Phantom sitting in their garage? There are a heck of a lot more Picasso’s out there and when you see cars bringing 2-3 million dollars they are right up there with the art world.

[401don]

The Toronto auto show has a large classic vehicle display in a separate area every year. Individuals from all over Ontario and parts of the U.S. show their vehicles. It is always one of the busiest areas of the show. Detroit has quite a lot of unused space inside the convention center with less companies participating and the goal to move much of the show outside. This would be an opportunity for the Big 3 to bring some of their hidden gems out of storage, as well as promote other car museums in the area.