School Shooting at Oxford High School

[southen]

A teacher opened a door to the school [the one the killer later entered), and sees the kid crash a car into the school lawn, and get out WITH AN AR.

So she goes inside and gets her phone to report it, then, she comes back and PROPS OPEN THE DOOR !! SERIOUSLY, PROPS OPEN THE DOOR ! The door between the school children and some kid on the lawn with an AR!

Who does this teacher work for? Satan himself ?


Minutes later the killer waltzed into the school through that same propped-open door.


Ten min later the first police types arrive, but they wait almost an hour to breach the classroom door, during which time the last 8 victims are executed.

In case anyone was wondering here is the part that Rocket decided to edit out after deciding that maybe he looked pathetic pushing a conspiracy theory on the backs of all of the dead kids.

"My spidy senses are tingling that something is off about this event. And just a week before the annual NRA thing?"

This of course from the clown that claims the entirety of January 6th was perpetrated by the left and part of a vast conspiracy without proof.

Nobody is trying to confiscate all guns, which is also being pushed in this thread, but there is zero movement on common sense gun reform because hard right people have decided that it isn't a gun problem, but a mental health issue, or a leftist issue, or, or, or... Never mind that this is the only place where this happens. There is no mystery, just people who insist on putting their heads in the sand while the rest of the world looks at us like were insane. You people have perverted the 2nd Amendment and in your fetishizing of guns you convenient ignore the part of the amendment that says "well regulated." But sure, keep thinking that YOU are what stands between the government and tyranny in this country and by all means keep ignoring the fact that the amendment was written in the time of single shot muskets when militiamen had access to the same technology as the military. Any acknowledgement of those things and you might have to admit that gun policy in this country has led to these types of massacres and that would mean your views make you complicit. Can't have that so rinse and repeat and continue to do the same thing that just perpetuates these things. Pathetic.

[Richard]

Nice try. There are 4 guns per registered owner in Australia, not per person. That means about 800,000 gun owners in a country of 25 million.
Of course, similar to Canada, you can't just walk in and get a gun. There are proper background checks, firearms safety courses, a reasonable time period between application and ownership, references, etc. required.

Why Australia’s Gun Laws Won’t Work in the U.S.
So, could such a system work in the United States? The answer is likely no.
There are several reasons; as The New York Times reported, “Australians, on the whole, were happy to give up their guns and accept the new restrictions.” Americans, who, unlike their Australian cousins, have a Second Amendment that provided the right to keep and bear arms and that has been in place for nearly 240 years.


The United States is not like Canada and Australia where the government can just strip everybody of their rights on a whim.

So as much as people like to say how it is done everywhere else,it is not comparing apples to Apples.

As much as people hate it there are only 3 countries that have the same form of government as ours,so people that do not know that system find it easy to just say - o the government can just make a law,we are a constitutional republic,the law is already there in regards to guns.

It’s not the government that people fear when it comes to guns,it’s the thought pattern like what is portrayed in the post before mine,people looking for all kinds of insane reasons to twist the constitution to what ever they want,it was set up like it was to prevent that.

Push comes to shove,attack and label everybody that you oppose,which is exactly how dictatorships work and exactly why we keep our guns,because there is a part of the population in the country that would prefer we become a dictatorship and they do anything possible to remove all protections so they can have free rein over the population.

Thats as asinine as me saying if you do not like guns you are a commy socialist bent on having total control over everybody’s life and that pesky gun and constitution is standing in your way.

Some people just do not like guns,it is their right to not like them as it is anybody else’s right to own them.

If we are going to start dictating to others what we want and they must comply,I could think of a few things to add to that list.

Funniest thing to me though,it’s a favorite catch phrase of some here to say - You have never been to Detroit so you have no clue.

When it comes to guns,everybody becomes an expert on them,even if they have never owned one in their life,funny how that works.

The easiest thing to do is to pass a law making schools gun free zones ,see how easy it is?

This country has a large percentage with anger issues and even worse a major disconnect from reality.

It goes back full circle to the OT of this thread,in that persons mind,where he was intent on doing harm to others,a gun had little to do with it at that stage,there is 100 different ways to do way more damage faster causing a higher percentage of death and injury then with a gun.

Every single one of those ways has zero regulations in their purchase.

You have to show ID to buy spray paint,did that stop the huffers?

You cannot “law” your way out of this.

I also notice in the U.S. and Canada,it’s perfectly acceptable to mow people down in a large gathering with your car,because nobody is going to say,let’s ban cars,because the ones that drive them will not want to give theirs up.

I guess it makes sense though because it was not the car that did that,it was the person operating the car and using it outside of it’s intent,silly to ban cars over that..

[401don]

Why Australia’s Gun Laws Won’t Work in the U.S.
So, could such a system work in the United States? The answer is likely no.
There are several reasons; as The New York Times reported, “Australians, on the whole, were happy to give up their guns and accept the new restrictions.” Americans, who, unlike their Australian cousins, have a Second Amendment that provided the right to keep and bear arms and that has been in place for nearly 240 years.


The United States is not like Canada and Australia where the government can just strip everybody of their rights on a whim.

So as much as people like to say how it is done everywhere else,it is not comparing apples to Apples.

As much as people hate it there are only 3 countries that have the same form of government as ours,so people that do not know that system find it easy to just say - o the government can just make a law,we are a constitutional republic,the law is already there in regards to guns.

It’s not the government that people fear when it comes to guns,it’s the thought pattern like what is portrayed in the post before mine,people looking for all kinds of insane reasons to twist the constitution to what ever they want,it was set up like it was to prevent that.

Push comes to shove,attack and label everybody that you oppose,which is exactly how dictatorships work and exactly why we keep our guns,because there is a part of the population in the country that would prefer we become a dictatorship and they do anything possible to remove all protections so they can have free rein over the population.

Thats as asinine as me saying if you do not like guns you are a commy socialist bent on having total control over everybody’s life and that pesky gun and constitution is standing in your way.

Some people just do not like guns,it is their right to not like them as it is anybody else’s right to own them.

If we are going to start dictating to others what we want and they must comply,I could think of a few things to add to that list.

Funniest thing to me though,it’s a favorite catch phrase of some here to say - You have never been to Detroit so you have no clue.

When it comes to guns,everybody becomes an expert on them,even if they have never owned one in their life,funny how that works.

The easiest thing to do is to pass a law making schools gun free zones ,see how easy it is?

This country has a large percentage with anger issues and even worse a major disconnect from reality.

It goes back full circle to the OT of this thread,in that persons mind,where he was intent on doing harm to others,a gun had little to do with it at that stage,there is 100 different ways to do way more damage faster causing a higher percentage of death and injury then with a gun.

Every single one of those ways has zero regulations in their purchase.

You have to show ID to buy spray paint,did that stop the huffers?

You cannot “law” your way out of this.

I also notice in the U.S. and Canada,it’s perfectly acceptable to mow people down in a large gathering with your car,because nobody is going to say,let’s ban cars,because the ones that drive them will not want to give theirs up.

I guess it makes sense though because it was not the car that did that,it was the person operating the car and using it outside of it’s intent,silly to ban cars over that..

I will certainly agree that common sense gun legislation will never fly in the United States.

[Rocket]

I will certainly agree that common sense gun legislation will never fly in the United States.

Well, we have upwards of 50,000 unconstitutional gun laws on the books already, and of course murdering piles of children is already illegal.

What "Common Sense" gun laws would you like to see enacted?

[southen]

Well, we have upwards of 50,000 unconstitutional gun laws on the books already, and of course murdering piles of children is already illegal.

What "Common Sense" gun laws would you like to see enacted?

Especially if it is a false flag to make the NRA look bad amirite Rocket?

Again. "Well regulated" is in the amendment. Try again.

[Jimaz]

Well, we have upwards of 50,000 unconstitutional gun laws on the books already,...

I suspect that your conditioning has led you to believe that hyperbole adds credibility to your argument. Hyperbole does the opposite.

Conservatives in the 60s were handed their ass by radical liberals. Conservatives reacted by switching their strategy to "radical conservatism." Can you not even comprehend the oxymoron there?

Save yourself. Seek help. You're trapped in a cult.

[Richard]

Well, we have upwards of 50,000 unconstitutional gun laws on the books already, and of course murdering piles of children is already illegal.

What "Common Sense" gun laws would you like to see enacted?

Notice how the replies went after you personally instead of answering your question.

[Meddle]

The target of public schools is going to have to be hardened.

Supermarkets? Shopping centers? Nightclubs? Open air entertainment venues?

[Meddle]

I will certainly agree that common sense gun legislation will never fly in the United States.

We can't even get enough common sense to not quote entire long posts.

[southen]

Notice how the replies went after you personally instead of answering your question.

https://ibb.co/wNNRS6m

Naturally you would defend him. You probably think it was some conspiracy as well. But when you write what he wrote in the link above, you are pushing the same crap that got Alex Jones rightfully sued. You belittle the loss of life and you are a pos. Plain and simple.

[Meddle]

Nobody is trying to confiscate all guns,

I would. At least anything that can hold more than six rounds and does not require a manual action [[cock, breach, pump, lever) to fire each round.

[Richard]

They do metal detect at concerts and night clubs.

But that did not stop the mass shooting at the concert in the UK
Or the mass shooting on the camping island in Sweden or where ever that was,all of what is happening is happening all across the world,it’s not like only in America and in the other countries you have population levels of 15 to 25 million people compared to our 350 million and much stricter gun laws that are not preventing much.

But they do approach mental health differently then we do.

[southen]

They do metal detect at concerts and night clubs.

But that did not stop the mass shooting at the concert in the UK
Or the mass shooting on the camping island in Sweden or where ever that was,all of what is happening is happening all across the world,it’s not like only in America and in the other countries you have population levels of 15 to 25 million people compared to our 350 million and much stricter gun laws that are not preventing much.

But they do approach mental health differently then we do.

Except you know that providing two examples of other shootings doesn't equate to the rate at which we do mass shootings right? This doesn't happen anywhere else at this rate and you know it.

[Rocket]

Notice how the replies went after you personally instead of answering your question.

I did. And everyone knows what that means.

[Rocket]

Again. "Well regulated" is in the amendment.

You seem to understand that backwards.

Well regulated doesn't mean disarmed. Quite the opposite.

The federal government was to be unarmed, the founding fathers knowing how terrible it was for the king to have every weapon imaginable, and the people few or none. This is understood in the Constitution, and of course nowhere in the document is the federal govt given the power to have an army. And all powers not specifically listed therein are prohibited.

So no army for the feds.


Instead, each state was to have and maintain a militia, made up of the ordinary citizens. In time of crisis, the president would have to "ask" state governors to send troops to fight.

And because these militias would need to come together and fight as one, and do so effectively, it was imperative that they all be well trained, to a common standard, and of course be well armed.

This is what is meant by well regulated.

And of course even here, the regulating is being done at the state level, as the states are who have the militias.

[Richard]

Except you know that providing two examples of other shootings doesn't equate to the rate at which we do mass shootings right? This doesn't happen anywhere else at this rate and you know it.

Maybe not today but their gun stance in the past cost 80 million deaths due to gun violence,in 4 years.

There is a reason you can sit comfortably in your home today,unlike people in Ukraine or 3/4 of the continent of Africa,or Burma or pick your choice of ongoing dictatorships.

You can sit comfortably in your home while you pass judgment on others because the rest of the world understands there are a bunch of crazy MFs with a lot of guns in America and it is probably not a good idea to mess with them on their soil.

If the recent pandemic did not instill the notion in people heads that the world can change at a moment’s notice,9-11 took less then 5 minutes to change this country.

Ukraine went from drinking coffee on the sidewalk to bombs raining down on innocent civilians in a matter of hours that is leaving their country in ruins.

Do you honestly believe that somewhere in this world,that right this second,there is not somebody thinking of a way to wipe us off of the planet?

History shows us when people get complacent,millions die,we are not a world of hugs and kisses and if something happens as we found out during 9-11 the military cannot react that fast,the only person that will save you is the ones you hate the most,somebody with a gun.

If you are going to compare stats,then do it right.

Compare a country the same size with the same population and the same system of government that offers that constitutional protections.

Next one behind us that may be even a tad bit close is Mexico,do you want to compare gun violence with Mexico?

You keep calling them shootings on purpose,it is gun violence,the shooting is the physical act,the act of pulling the trigger outside of contract killing and wars is an act of violence because it is based on emotions.

That is why nothing will change,because the first platform everybody jumps on from the start is gun control,how about anger control ?

Nobody wants to have that discussion.

You can take the guns away,something no country has actually been able to do,but somebody in an emotional state where they wish to do harm to others,does not need a gun to do it.

So it is not really about the guns,it’s just easy to use them as a pasty for people too weak to deal with the real issues at the crux of it all.

Have you even priced a gun or ammunition lately?

You can kill and maim a hell of a lot more people faster for $6,then you can with a gun.

Like I posted,you cannot “law” your way out of this,we have 350 million people in this country what percentage is picking up a gun and doing mass shooting?

You could try something simple as a test of anti guns,make drugs illegal,then when that proves to be a success we can see how it will work in your gun control agenda.

That seems to work,you legalized weed under the guise it would take the crime out of it and provide taxes,but on the 11th CBP busted 2,175 pounds of it at Fort Street.

So your ideas on how to handle things does not exactly have a stellar record.

My take on school shootings? They are like all the politicians and everybody else getting up in front of the cameras lashing out,the thousands on YouTube,Tictok,Reddit they are all looking for their 15 minutes of fame,the more outlandish they are the more likes they get.

This country found it acceptable and even justified when a comedian stood up with a severed head of a United States sitting president,people justified it because they did not like that president,no different then these mass shooters they justify their actions because a large portion of the country already showed them it is okay.

Because like in these postings ,people justify villainizing those who they disagree with,we watched the president of a country making villains out of truck drivers in order to justify any means necessary actions.

What do you think is going through the mind of a mass shooter? Do you think he/she/them feels it is justified because they are the villains that we are told to hate everyday in order to justify actions?

Even though there are Nazi groups in Russia,Putin justified killing 10,000s of thousands of innocent people in Ukraine,simply by telling his population that they were Nazis and inferior people that needed to be eradicated from the earth,and a large part of the population supports that.

A mass shooter is doing what everybody else actually supports,eliminating those who you deem inferior.

The difference is they went from doing it while hiding behind a computer to taking action,they figure everybody online supports it so why not be the hero and help eliminate those inferior people.

Stop villainizing people you do not agree with,you are trying to justify a stance by creating a villain out of people,you are putting the gun in the hands of those shooters,they are helping you out.

The are two instances when the rise in school shootings increased dramatically and they both can be timed,the internet and social media and liberal removal of the see something say something policy in some schools.

But even in this thread the use of liberal automatically brings on the demonizing of those using it,weather it is true or not plays no role.

What is interesting in this recent school shooting,people are asking how come there was not an armed guard at the school to protect the students.

After spending the past 3 years doing everything possible to remove armed guards from the school,because it made the students feel uncomfortable,the sad part is dead is worse then uncomfortable.

[canuck]

An armed guard at each and every elementary school, and arming teachers,
more local police, state police, federal police, border patrol to intervene in case some of the former aren’t up to snuff. More guns in the hands of everybody and their uncle.

More charter schools, more home schooling parents like when people had no choice out on the range. More bomb shelters, lots of provisions and beer.

But paramount to all that; more guns, lol; as if more guns had already not happened.

So, when parents send their kids to school in five years time, they will certainly be in better hands when their teachers are armed to the teeth knowing that everybody in authority and their uncle are standup guys and gals. Again; lol.

[canuck]

A teacher opened a door to the school [the one the killer later entered), and sees the kid crash a car into the school lawn, and get out WITH AN AR.

So she goes inside and gets her phone to report it, then, she comes back and PROPS OPEN THE DOOR !! SERIOUSLY, PROPS OPEN THE DOOR ! The door between the school children and some kid on the lawn with an AR!

Who does this teacher work for? Satan himself ?


Minutes later the killer waltzed into the school through that same propped-open door.


Ten min later the first police types arrive, but they wait almost an hour to breach the classroom door, during which time the last 8 victims are executed.

Sure, it was the teacher dunnit. That satanic, satanist of a teacher. Give her a gun for next time, or maybe not?

[Zacha341]

Security IS crucial however in helping prevent entry into K12 schools. As I posted in #450 better policing needs to be applied as well. The target of schools needs to be hardened just as we did with the airports.

As I posted DPSCD has their own policing certified w/ state policing standards. I couldn't recall what it was called when posted yesterday. Here's the info:

https://www.detroitk12.org/police

Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards

[Rocket]

Sure, it was the teacher dunnit. That satanic, satanist of a teacher. Give her a gun for next time, or maybe not?

OF COURSE you miss the point.


What's the point of hardening schools when a teacher might just be colossally stupid enough to prop open an exterior door AFTER seeing a kid crash a car and get out onto the schools lawn holding an AR ?

Pretty much all schools in the US are already hardened to a degree. Every school I've seen has heavy steel doors that are required to be locked at all times. Then there are video door bells at the main entrance, and once school has started, that door is also locked and closed, and if a parent needs to come in to bring in the lunch their child forgot, they have to ring the bell, and a staff member has to recognize them and buzz them in.

But this teacher seems to have single-handedly defeated all of those efforts and the billions spent.


Also remember that the number of shootings and the victim count both rose sharply AFTER the fed govt here passed a law designating our schools as official mass-killing zones in 1990. Before that it wasn't so comfortable to shoot up a school as it was always unclear what teachers or other staff might be armed. But after that law, everyone presumes no one is armed in a school, making it the ideal place for a psycho to go on a rampage.

It's one of the many terrible side effects that occur when moron politicians pass unconstitutional guns laws.

[401don]

We can't even get enough common sense to not quote entire long posts.

Go to hell.

[southen]

You seem to understand that backwards.

Well regulated doesn't mean disarmed. Quite the opposite.

The federal government was to be unarmed, the founding fathers knowing how terrible it was for the king to have every weapon imaginable, and the people few or none. This is understood in the Constitution, and of course nowhere in the document is the federal govt given the power to have an army. And all powers not specifically listed therein are prohibited.

So no army for the feds.


Instead, each state was to have and maintain a militia, made up of the ordinary citizens. In time of crisis, the president would have to "ask" state governors to send troops to fight.

And because these militias would need to come together and fight as one, and do so effectively, it was imperative that they all be well trained, to a common standard, and of course be well armed.

This is what is meant by well regulated.

And of course even here, the regulating is being done at the state level, as the states are who have the militias.

I think before every reply to you I will add this little disclaimer for everyone that the person I am engaging with believes that the death of these 19 kids and 2 teachers was a false flag operation to get at the NRA by leftist groups. Someone really pathetic.

"My spidy senses are tingling that something is off about this event. And just a week before the annual NRA thing?"

Now that that bit of business is out of the way.

So basically the regulation part has nothing to do with the gun part because the amendment really is about militias and defending ourselves from tyrannical government versus being able to have a personal arsenal to protect yourself from your fellow Americans. Do I have that correct? Also, with all of the training and importance of that that you mention, how much of that is implemented today to every little patriot that purchases a firearm? Does that mean you support training for each owner of a weapon up to a certain standard? I don't know man, sounds a lot like common sense gun reform there.

[southen]

Richard, that post was like a greatest hits. You bring up liberals being to blame, Putin, Nazis, compare to Britain colonizing and even Kathy Griffin without any of it being relevant to a uniquely American domestic issue. The Kathy Griffin thing confuses me most because she was using her first amendment right and then was cancelled and black balled after the Trump thing. Something I thought you hated, but I digress.

You can sit comfortably in your home while you pass judgment on others because the rest of the world understands there are a bunch of crazy MFs with a lot of guns in America and it is probably not a good idea to mess with them on their soil.

This is the part that I find the most amusing out of your word salad. It isn't our military whose budget exceeds the next ten countries combined, 9 of which are allies, that is a deterent, its the crazies here with guns. One, I think there's an accidental admission that we are in fact crazy here and the fetishization of guns is a uniquely American. Two, its startilng that you actually believe this. You have pivoted from self defense, from being a check on the government, to now believing that an armed populace that kills themselves at a rate not seen elsewhere in the modern world is a deterrent from other countries messing with America. The rest of the world is astounded by our policies and inaction on this. It isn't our of fear, it is not being to understand the lack of empathy and common sense.

Nobody has tried to take away all of the guns. Republican Adam Kinzinger has come out and said that as well. It is all paranoia and fear on your part that keeps common sense legislation from being enacted. Without any proof you say that they will come for the rest of your guns. Your response? To harden schools and spend billions of dollars on adding more gun based measures and it still can happen. Hell, it happened on a military base. I guess we just need to arm people at the grocery store and really just prepare ourselves mentally for a society in which you can be gunned down at any time because some slaveholders a couple of hundred years ago said so.

The mental gymnastics you have to be capable of is astounding to support a Gov in Florida who won't allow the mention of gay people existing because it could hurt a child's growing mind but has no problem with them going through active shooter drills because they could be gunned down at any time. Apparently that equates to more freedom. To me the idea of freedom means I am not constantly worried about being gunned down or wondering if my friends children paid close enough attention to the escape route they must take when a shooter enters the building. If guns made us safer we would be the safest country on the planet. They don't. No facts support your ideas or notions, just an increasing body count each day we ignore what the rest of the world deems as common sense. Not one of your strengths unfortunately.

[Zacha341]

^ Hola! My intention here is not to step between between you and Richard, but IMO there needs to be clarification regarding the Florida bill.

A bill not automatically full-out dismissed [as thought or assumed - especially once read] by particular political sides, among moderates, or by those representing varied religions [not solely Christian - as also often assumed!]. Again, for clarification this [beyond partisan alignments] is the what the so-called 'Don't say Gay' CS/CS/ HB 1557 bill actually states:

CS/CS/HB 1557: Parental Rights in Education

AKA The 'Don't Say Gay' [the three word] Bill

The Bill as per the Florida Senate:

Parental Rights in Education; Requires district school boards to adopt procedures that comport with certain provisions of law for notifying student's parent of specified information; requires such procedures to reinforce fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding upbringing & control of their children; prohibits school district from adopting procedures or student support forms that prohibit school district personnel from notifying parent about specified information or that encourage student to withhold from parent such information; prohibits school district personnel from discouraging or prohibiting parental notification & involvement in critical decisions affecting student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being; prohibits classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels; requires school districts to notify parents of healthcare services; authorizes parent to bring action against school district to obtain declaratory judgment; provides for additional award of injunctive relief, damages, & reasonable attorney fees & court costs to certain parents.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557

https://www.flsenate.gov/Details/2825

...The mental gymnastics you have to be capable of is astounding to support a Gov in Florida who won't allow the mention of gay people existing because it could hurt a child's growing mind but has no problem with them going through active shooter drills because they could be gunned down at any time...

[Richard]

^ yes,that in part was Floridas response as to the policies in place where parents and police were never notified if the school discovered a student having issues while encouraging parents to become more involved in their children’s education process.

A couple excerpts from the news this morning.

A father arrived at the school and saw a little girl with blood on her clothing,he went to check her for injuries,she had none and said it was from her best friend who was deceased,he asked what her best friends name was and it was his daughter.

He did not know who his daughters best friend was.

Another grieving couple was appalled that the weapon used was the same weapon that is used in the video game - Call Of Duty - they said their son played it everyday,but as a parent they had no clue what it was.

We saw the same thing in the school shooting that started this thread,the parents were unaware of what their child was actually doing for gte most part in life.

People are having kids but wanting to live their lives as if they do not have kids,it’s like their kids live in the same house but they do not have a clue about what they are doing or hanging out with.