School Shooting at Oxford High School

[canuck]

Nobody's forcing anybody to own a firearm. Some people choose to NOT protect themselves and their family unarmed, some don't.

In a sense, that’s almost what I’m saying, it’s a choice that people are seen as having. It doesn’t matter that a ton of pressure is put to strengthen the status quo in terms of facilitating gun ownership by the gun lobbies. There is enough gusto for guns of all kinds by individuals for gun multiplication to occur. I’ve noticed in the past two years more comments on the need to equip the ordinary citizen against would be attackers. If you stripped the US of purely ghetto and gangster elements, you would still have an enthusiastic bent on guns segment of the population because it is promoted via all kinds of avenues. The American people have a more militaristic/historical mythology than Canadians by a pretty big margin. The need for guns as a self or family defense is less argued on this side of the border than in the US. You don’t need to scratch much below the surface to find the romance of gunslinging and devil may care attitude to life threatening circumstances in the media. Movies have been the perfect vehicle to exploit the Zeitgeist for a hundred and twenty years. Just read up on "The Great Train Robbery" to take note of how important the synergy of crime vs media played out in the ensuing century. The bad boy imagery is an integral part of the way criminal attitudes are promoted in evermore colorful ways. Before the cinema happened, Buffalo Bill and Sitting Bull recreated battles for money and prestige in worldwide travelling shows. The romance of guns goes hand in hand with a long story of mediatic promotion.

[Richard]

Canada has a population of 37 million.

Canada has a low estimate of 20 million privately owned guns.

So over 1/2 the population of Canada is armed.

But it is the United States that has a gun fetish caused by the movies.

We have a population of 350 million with a paisley estimate of 600 million guns,so that is only 2 guns per citizen and a lousy estimate of 1 trillion rounds floating about.

What about Poland and other countries where the citizens are required to either own guns or be proficient in their use ?

They also have a gun fetish from watching movies ,how about the Ukraine where the husband,wife and children are all trained in the use of guns and the majority own one.

Between that and the country to the north of us that recently converted to a violent dictatorship,in a matter of minutes.

There is no argument that says American have no reason to be retaining weapons.

Between liberal policies that have caused an increase in crime over 400% in some cities and watching a country flip at the stroke of a pen leaving our border open as a staging ground for our enemies one is going to be hard pressed in convincing Americans now is the time to give up their guns.

And the numbers prove that as they are increasing in sales by an estimated 5 million more per year the the year before,that is not being influenced by watching movies.

As one is counting guns,not every gun is a scary AR15,there are millions of collector guns,antique guns and guns that are for show and not practical for shooting.

I used to have a 1940 Russian field carbine that was used in WW2,the rounds are no longer manufactured and it cost me at that time $85 per round to have them made,not exactly something that you use to go shoot off 50 rounds at the range with.

If you really want to get traumatized,look for the video on YouTube,under the title of

The most armed man in America.

Why is everybody else so concerned about Americans and their guns,even more so dictatorship controlled countries,or maybe they really prefer Americans to be defenseless so their agenda is easier to push.

There are millions of pens out there,people collect pens,people use pens every day,children use pens every day,you can kill somebody with a pen just as quick as you can with a gun.

Millions of bows and crossbows out there,people do not have a problem with them,but you can use them to silently kill somebody.

Maybe that’s really what it is about,people are scared of the noise a gun makes,but then why make suppressors illegal,which defies logic,they do not want you to shoot somebody with a suppressor because it makes the weapon silent,but okay to use a silent crossbow.

Its that motto - Be prepared - if you are standing in line in order to buy a roll of toilet paper at the last minute,you are not really prepared for anything,including the ability to wipe your own ….

[canuck]

^^^

Cars, phones, and now pens are just as lethal as guns. If there was a Nobel for Twisted Tales, Dickie; I’d push for your 2022 nomination campaign.

[jcole]

Has anyone thought of entering him in the annual Bulwer-Lytton Fiction contest?

^^^

Cars, phones, and now pens are just as lethal as guns. If there was a Nobel for Twisted Tales, Dickie; I’d push for your 2022 nomination campaign.

[canuck]

Has anyone thought of entering him in the annual Bulwer-Lytton Fiction contest?

Gosh, that seems like the right fit for our Dick. [[Ahem!)

[Richard]

^^^

Cars, phones, and now pens are just as lethal as guns. If there was a Nobel for Twisted Tales, Dickie; I’d push for your 2022 nomination campaign.

So do I get a trophy for participating?

If you shoot and kill somebody with a gun,it’s murder
If you are drunk and you kill somebody with your car you get charged with murder

There are variables there but it boils down to,the actions taken that caused a death,taking a life is taking a life,what does it matter what the weapon of choice is?

It is not twisting anything,if you can kill somebody with a pen just as you can with a gun,how come pens are not regulated?

Maybe because the people that do not like guns,do not want their pens regulated,just as they care little about the hundreds of teenagers killed every day due to distracted driving,because they do not want their own cell phones regulated.

If you are looking to restrict an item because it causes death,then it should be done across the board and not based on the attitude of,restrict the things I do not like but you cannot restrict the things that I do like.

That would be hypocritical.

We just purposely started a war in the Ukraine that will involved thousands of men women children and innocent to be killed by guns,millions in a world war if 1 misplaced round lands,is it because we love guns or because they are also a means to an end,as much as you want them to,they will never go away.

[softailrider]

In a sense, that’s almost what I’m saying, it’s a choice that people are seen as having. It doesn’t matter that a ton of pressure is put to strengthen the status quo in terms of facilitating gun ownership by the gun lobbies. There is enough gusto for guns of all kinds by individuals for gun multiplication to occur. I’ve noticed in the past two years more comments on the need to equip the ordinary citizen against would be attackers. If you stripped the US of purely ghetto and gangster elements, you would still have an enthusiastic bent on guns segment of the population because it is promoted via all kinds of avenues. The American people have a more militaristic/historical mythology than Canadians by a pretty big margin. The need for guns as a self or family defense is less argued on this side of the border than in the US. You don’t need to scratch much below the surface to find the romance of gunslinging and devil may care attitude to life threatening circumstances in the media. Movies have been the perfect vehicle to exploit the Zeitgeist for a hundred and twenty years. Just read up on "The Great Train Robbery" to take note of how important the synergy of crime vs media played out in the ensuing century. The bad boy imagery is an integral part of the way criminal attitudes are promoted in evermore colorful ways. Before the cinema happened, Buffalo Bill and Sitting Bull recreated battles for money and prestige in worldwide travelling shows. The romance of guns goes hand in hand with a long story of mediatic promotion.

I live in a really safe city. Call 911, the Calvary will show in less the 5 minutes, police cars, fire trucks you wouldn't believe it. I also have a security system and cameras on all 4 sides of my house. If we go out for an ice cream cone, we alarm the house before we leave. I also have a .38 special or a .40 caliber Glock nearby. Am I paranoid? Maybe.

[canuck]

I live in a really safe city. Call 911, the Calvary will show in less the 5 minutes, police cars, fire trucks you wouldn't believe it. I also have a security system and cameras on all 4 sides of my house. If we go out for an ice cream cone, we alarm the house before we leave. I also have a .38 special or a .40 caliber Glock nearby. Am I paranoid? Maybe.

I have a pretty good alarm system, but it’s never armed, lol. We don’t lock the front and back doors either, but we did where we lived at our last house near downtown Montreal. It was a nice street in a rough area where last year, there were two drive-bys with one young guy dead and one where a young woman survived. She was shot sitting in her car just one block from where I lived. In the past couple of years a lot of kids were killed by knife or gun in Montreal. A number of 15, 16 year old kids were executed in neighborhoods far and wide. The murder rate is low compared to the 70's and 80’s, but the street gangs are upping their game. The town where I live now is pretty quiet on that front. I never felt the need for weapons on my person or to protect my home, but I understand how some people in a metro area like Detroit or any major city would want to do that. I am attuned to crime news items, so it does make me be on my guard for unpleasantness to happen, especially as I grow older.

I can’t bring myself to support the theory that more guns would solve the problem of higher criminality and protection from such. I mean, are you going to give 15 year olds handguns to cover themselves on their walk to school? It’s an viciously inescapable circle IMO.

[Meddle]

News reports say the kid's counselor told the parents he was trouble and needed further help and that they acted 'coldly' towards him in the meeting that morning.

[Meddle]

I live in a really safe city. Call 911, the Calvary will show in less the 5 minutes, police cars, fire trucks you wouldn't believe it.

Unless they're all tied up on .... oh, ... maybe a school shooting.

[Richard]

I live in a really safe city. Call 911, the Calvary will show in less the 5 minutes, police cars, fire trucks you wouldn't believe it. I also have a security system and cameras on all 4 sides of my house. If we go out for an ice cream cone, we alarm the house before we leave. I also have a .38 special or a .40 caliber Glock nearby. Am I paranoid? Maybe.

Its Kinda like homeowners insurance,I had it for 20 years and never needed it until I did.

The debate is kicking up again as to the status of the kid in this case,in the adult facility they have to be holding him in isolation,they say he is getting lots of supporter letters the majority from females.

Its almost like the juvenile center is making the case more then the attorneys,they are saying if he is put into the juvenile center he would have excess to a psychiatrist and they would be able to stop him from receiving that support from the mail.

The prosecutors stance is he is basically a highly intelligent and manipulative person that is obsessed with violence.

But he has never had a history of violence or been in trouble in school before this.

Not sure how the prosecutors came to their conclusion,one would think that would be up to a psychiatrist to legally determine that.

[Richard]

News reports say the kid's counselor told the parents he was trouble and needed further help and that they acted 'coldly' towards him in the meeting that morning.

But yet they determined that he was not a danger to himself or others and sent him back to class? The school was the one that called the counselors professionals.

And they said that had no issues before,if he was that bad why would they have offered him the position of being the captain of the soccer team.

This may be because of the pending law suit and the school doing damage control,the truth always seems to be in the middle somewhere.

It is still all he said - she said and the parents are taking the stance of right to remain silent when it comes to the media,so we are also only getting the side of the story as presented by those whose job is to make it look as bad as possible.

I am not sure how it works today,but when my kids were in school and the school said they were going home,it was not a debate.

Not even sure their is a parental guideline of how to react if a school basically tells you,your kid is a wako,but not a danger to anybody,so they are presenting an interpretation of a cold stare,I can see a blank stare where the mind is processing the information of a mixed signal coming from the school.

Your kid is nuts but he is not a danger to anybody,take him home,but you really do not have to?

[canuck]

But yet they determined that he was not a danger to himself or others and sent him back to class? The school was the one that called the counselors professionals.

And they said that had no issues before,if he was that bad why would they have offered him the position of being the captain of the soccer team.

This may be because of the pending law suit and the school doing damage control,the truth always seems to be in the middle somewhere.

It is still all he said - she said and the parents are taking the stance of right to remain silent when it comes to the media,so we are also only getting the side of the story as presented by those whose job is to make it look as bad as possible.

I am not sure how it works today,but when my kids were in school and the school said they were going home,it was not a debate.

Not even sure their is a parental guideline of how to react if a school basically tells you,your kid is a wako,but not a danger to anybody,so they are presenting an interpretation of a cold stare,I can see a blank stare where the mind is processing the information of a mixed signal coming from the school.

Your kid is nuts but he is not a danger to anybody,take him home,but you really do not have to?

You’re sending a lotbof mixed signals there, Richard. The first thing the parents had to do was nix access to the gun. If the school staff is deemed responsible in a further trial, it won't put a damper on the parents’ lack of care. But you spend so much energy defending those two and lashing out at the school, that your agenda becomes clear with each posting. I can’t think of a stupider thing to buy a fifteen year old insecure kid than a handgun. But hey, maybe they should have bought him an AR15, or whatever it’s called.

[Richard]

^ I am not sending mixed signals,you have in your mind what should happen and no matter what anybody else says,unless they agree with you are guilty of fill in the blank …….

It has been cleared now for the trial,until then you are judging and convicting based on little evidence provided,so how can I possibly defend the parents when I do not have the facts,I thought I was pretty clear that I was not a lib - so why would you expect me to think like one?

That is par to the course,think of something that you perceive to be a crime,based on evidence that you create in your mind,then jump straight into a guilty conviction.

Next you will be saying you are a man but you think you are a woman so therefore it is true.

Not that I am judging,I am sure there are some cute hairy women with man parts out there that need loving also.

I have made my stance clear,I do not care about this school shooting,because most are fixated on the moment nothing is going to change,and you can copy and paste this thread into every school shooting in the past and into the future.

The prudent thing to do is to prevent the next one,I have outlined or brought to light of what ever you call it,measures that could or need to be taken in order to prevent the next school school,I did not make them up they are facts.

The majority response is fuck off Richard we do not want to hear it,at least I am not putting out this fake front acting like I give a crap about dead children in order to push a gun narrative..

My other beef as I have made clear,the prosecutor is using this case in order to create laws and that is illegal and if she gets away with it,you might as well throw any justice reform out the window.

Look at what is going on in this country,in California another DA was just thrown out of office for doing the exact same thing,he was not thrown out by conservatives,he was thrown out by his fellow liberals,so either the liberals are tired of their own crap or they are working on throwing the progressives out of the system.

As much as you hate guns - you sure seem to have a lot of support for things that are driving people to purchase more guns in record numbers.

Maybe it’s not the guns with the problem.

Is there even such a thing as a liberal rocket scientist?

One would figure it would not take a rocket scientist in order to figure out that the more crime you promote,the more others will arm up in order to defend themselves.

I have a friend that somebody did a hit and run after they ran the stop sign,he chased them down and blocked them in so they could not leave until the police arrived.

The police told him,it was his fault because he should have stopped,even though the other had the stop sign,and he was lucky they were not pressing kidnapping charges because he blocked him in.

The kicker is,it was a dope drop n run car,that was stolen and had no tag and the cop let the guy walk because of his skin color,we are in a time where the victims of crime are the guilty ones.

Now the insurance kicks out $8000 to fix his truck,the dope boy just goes and steals another car and continues on,completely oblivious to the fact he lives in the neighborhood and people know where he lives.

[Richard]

Two assistant vice principals in Southern California have been arrested, accused of failing to notify authorities after three students came forward claiming they were sexually assaulted on the high school campus, officials say.

The Assistant Principals’ failure to report sexual assault on their campus erodes the trust that students and parents alike should have regarding the safety and protection of all the children in their care," District Attorney Jason Anderson said in a statement. “Their failure as mandated reporters to notify law enforcement lead to further victimization of two students, and the sexual assault of a third victim which was preventable.”

The parents are outraged that they weren’t alerted immediately.
“They failed to notify us, they failed to notify police,” the father said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-calif...161711237.html

[Rocket]

^ What on Earth is the motivation for headmasters /counselors not just reporting this stuff right away?

I think if I were in charge, I'd be wanting to get this stuff on record and off my plate as fast as possible.

Do the headmasters get reviewed based on graduation rate, INCLUDING the nut jobs? And is that likely to outweigh a few rapes or a shooting?

Are their bonuses based on the public opinion of the school, so as to encourage burying sexual assaults and psychos?

I'd really like to know.

Perhaps it's like unionized teachers, where it takes a couple of years and costs six figures to get a child-molesting teacher out of your school?

[Meddle]

Anyways, Maw & Paw Crumby ordered to stand trial.

[Richard]

Anyways, Maw & Paw Crumby ordered to stand trial.

The judge added this part

“But they purchased a gun which he believed was his,” Nicholson added.

So apparently the judge does not support the whole - They bought the gun for the kid part.

[Richard]

^ What on Earth is the motivation for headmasters /counselors not just reporting this stuff right away?

I think if I were in charge, I'd be wanting to get this stuff on record and off my plate as fast as possible.

Do the headmasters get reviewed based on graduation rate, INCLUDING the nut jobs? And is that likely to outweigh a few rapes or a shooting?

Are their bonuses based on the public opinion of the school, so as to encourage burying sexual assaults and psychos?

I'd really like to know.

Perhaps it's like unionized teachers, where it takes a couple of years and costs six figures to get a child-molesting teacher out of your school?

I posted that link as reference as people keep saying I am crazy in my views.

I do not know in the other cases like the churches and the other recent one where the coach was molesting the girls for years with the institutions knowledge.

The one that concerns me is the one policy that is in place that ties every school shooting together,school shootings have occurred only in schools that retain that policy.

The policy was put in place so when kids do something illegal,the police are not notified and it is handled in house,the reason behind it is so kids do not graduate from school with a criminal record and it prevents them from getting a job,not sure about up their but,here those records would be sealed and no employer would be able to access them.

In the link I posted,the girls that were sexually assaulted were shamed into not saying anything to anybody including their parents under threat of public exposure.

People like to post how screwed up my way of thinking is,I do not care,I do not believe there should be one square inch on this planet where any female should ever fear of being sexually assaulted and expect no repercussions.

Apparently others do not see it that way,how many silent victims are out there today and how has those acts effected the mental state for those girls going into the future?

There is no point in all of this if people do not really want to stop all of this,most just like it to continue so they can push their gun agenda,at the cost of others.

There is another case floating out there where in an exclusive private school,it was like a right of passage to rape a fellow student,it was covered up for years.

I have an acquaintance that owns all the private schools in a foreign country,that is a unity form of government,it is only for the elite and the children of the government,you do not see things like that happening,rape a girl in school and you are castrated and your entire family is stripped of all social privileges.

A little dramatic,but it does make for a safe environment.

[ABetterDetroit]

I have been thinking about the families of the victims from Oxford this week. It must be extremely difficult to hear about more of the same senseless sickening tragedy happening yet again to more children in school. May God be with them.

[Danny]

You all remember my quote or do your either ignore or forget about it.

"There will be shooting everywhere in America [[this free country) Especially shootings in our schools. Have we not learned from Columbine to Stoneman Douglass? You all better remember Oxford High School because if another school shooting happens. Be ready, pray, cope and hope.

We must have gun control in this free country NOW. And those Klan supported NRA better stay out of our way."

Well, there was another school shooting happen in Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, TX. where 19 kids and 2 teachers were killed by a maniac gunman! Are we going to answer with candlelight vigils? Or are we are going to march up to politicians and demand more gun control. And tell the NRA to their guns away and shut up?

During peacetime all firearms and weapons should only be used for defensive purposes, not for vengeful results. There will be more mass shootings all over this free country later in the future. But I will not give into fear! As for right now I will be leaving my home, enjoy America and be aware for any more attacks.

[Richard]

People did give into fear,they locked down in their homes for almost a year,it did not stop the deaths.

All they had to do was make the virus illegal and take it away.

We are the country with the highest gun deaths but we are also the country with the least availability to mental health care.

I have a friend that just came back from Chicago after visiting his girlfriends relatives,they went out for dinner 3 times,each time there was a shooting,by the time a gun has been used it is a result of a decision that was already made to take a life,we do not prevent auto accident deaths by removing automobiles,we look at methods to reduce them.

Australia has one of the least amount of mass shootings,3 or more deaths per shooting,and their gun ownership totals 4 per person,so why do they have the same ownership ratios but less shootings?

Of course it will keep happening,because we will not deal with the core reasons that motivated that person to pick up a weapon in the first place.

Calling over 80 million people in the United States that legally own firearms Klan supporters is indicative of why it will keep happening.

In this case there has not been many updates outside of the state has taken ward of the shooter and stripped parental rights,and were debating as to how he can complete high school courses,like that is the priority.

I have not found anything released as far as preventative measures put in place in the school system or any mental health discussions.

[401don]

Australia has one of the least amount of mass shootings,3 or more deaths per shooting,and their gun ownership totals 4 per person,so why do they have the same ownership ratios but less shootings?

Nice try. There are 4 guns per registered owner in Australia, not per person. That means about 800,000 gun owners in a country of 25 million.
Of course, similar to Canada, you can't just walk in and get a gun. There are proper background checks, firearms safety courses, a reasonable time period between application and ownership, references, etc. required.

[Zacha341]

The target of public schools is going to have to be hardened. What do I mean by that? Hard security such as we see in the airports and other places which includes dedicated security forces and doors, including metal detectors. This is not a new idea for Detroit. I attended Murray Wright High School which in the late 70's was one of the first schools to have a liaison with the Detroit Police dept. in which two officers on shifts patrolled and worked with school security in the aftermath of several shootings and gang fights.

Detroit Public Schools as it was known then [now Detroit Public Schools Community District] would later institute metal detectors at their other High Schools and later at their Career Techs. Additionally, for many years now DPSCD has a partnership with the state of MI policing division forming a DPSCD law enforcement program with their its own safety LEO staff outside of the Detroit Police Department. It is the only entity of this in the state of Michigan. I will look it up [I posted it before re. the Oxford shooting].

We're hearing we must finally have the resolve to DO 'something' which for some means full firearm confiscation [that final solution] which is problematic at many levels. Withstanding background checks that exist; applied in this case it's far too easy to enter our schools - any time. This must be addressed well beyond the urban setting where it was assumed to be solely needed.

[Rocket]

A teacher opened a door to the school [the one the killer later entered), and sees the kid crash a car into the school lawn, and get out WITH AN AR.

So she goes inside and gets her phone to report it, then, she comes back and PROPS OPEN THE DOOR !! SERIOUSLY, PROPS OPEN THE DOOR ! The door between the school children and some kid on the lawn with an AR!

Who does this teacher work for? Satan himself ?


Minutes later the killer waltzed into the school through that same propped-open door.


Ten min later the first police types arrive, but they wait almost an hour to breach the classroom door, during which time the last 8 victims are executed.